The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #481  
Old 11-13-2011, 06:13 PM
HRHHermione's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Boston, United States
Posts: 2,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by expat View Post
I was thinking more on the line of breeding.
I know you were. And I personally think that it's in poor taste to talk about "breeding" in people as one would dogs or horses.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #482  
Old 11-13-2011, 06:19 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 10,194
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
I know you were. And I personally think that it's in poor taste to talk about "breeding" in people as one would dogs or horses.

Why not - that is what has sustained the concept of monarchy and aristocracy for 1000s of years - the ancient Romans and Greeks right down to the more recent past - Diana was an appropriate girl for Charles because of her aristocratic background while Camilla wasn't - that was as more about breeding - having the right 'blood' to be the mother of future royals.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #483  
Old 11-13-2011, 06:20 PM
Al_bina's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: City, Kazakhstan
Posts: 7,032

You are absolutely right.
__________________
"I never did mind about the little things"
Amanda, "Point of No Return"
Reply With Quote
  #484  
Old 11-13-2011, 06:31 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Philadelphia, United States
Posts: 3,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Why not - that is what has sustained the concept of monarchy and aristocracy for 1000s of years - the ancient Romans and Greeks right down to the more recent past - Diana was an appropriate girl for Charles because of her aristocratic background while Camilla wasn't - that was as more about breeding - having the right 'blood' to be the mother of future royals.

But trace back the Spencers far enough, and you find sheep farmers.
(Didn't some nobleman once sneer at them for that?)

And I thought the difficulty about Camilla wasn't family background, it was that she wasn't virginal while Diana was without a past.
Reply With Quote
  #485  
Old 11-13-2011, 06:33 PM
HRHHermione's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Boston, United States
Posts: 2,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Why not - that is what has sustained the concept of monarchy and aristocracy for 1000s of years - the ancient Romans and Greeks right down to the more recent past - Diana was an appropriate girl for Charles because of her aristocratic background while Camilla wasn't - that was as more about breeding - having the right 'blood' to be the mother of future royals.
Yes, and look how well that turned out? The idea that some people are superior to others because of their "blood lines" is absurd and it's one of the traditions around the monarchy that seems to have finally died out.

I think most people recognize now that what matters about another person is their individual characteristics- their intelligence, kindness, willingness to work hard and contribute to those around them. I think judging Pippa based on THOSE characteristics and not some archaic idea of her "breeding" is much more appropriate.
Reply With Quote
  #486  
Old 11-13-2011, 06:46 PM
Mermaid1962's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NearTheCoast, Canada
Posts: 6,006
Even in wartime, women still bought lipstick. If they couldn't have new clothes or fresh meat or things for the house, they could still buy lipstick. In places like France, it was almost a method of defiance. I think that the same is true for products such as the Middleton's have. Even if parents skimp on things for themselves, they'll still want to treat their children if at all possible; and that's what the Party Pieces business was founded on: mothers wanting to treat their children to parties without spending a lot of money and time.

The Middletons could have the last laugh. If Pippa and James and their descendants keep the family coffers full, the family will eventually be known as "old money."


Quote:
Originally Posted by expat View Post
I can't see in the Pippa in the future taking over her parents' business, I can't see with the state of the world finances that people will be making others millionaires by buying paper plates and hats. Perhaps they will branch out to something else.
Reply With Quote
  #487  
Old 11-13-2011, 06:58 PM
Mermaid1962's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NearTheCoast, Canada
Posts: 6,006
How dare they want the best education available for their children? How dare the Middletons make enough money to send their children to good schools, where they happened meet upper class people and those in their circle? Didn't they know that middle-class people like them should send their kids to state schools where they'd meet people more suitable to breed with???? My questions are, of course, highly tongue-in-cheek.

The fact is that if the Middletons are at all likable, friendly people, they did and will make upper-class friends--at least among those who don't care about "breeding" but judge people on character.

I thought that the Daily Mail article was extremely snide. It was written to trash Pippa outrightly or else make the Loudons seem like upper-class snobs.




Quote:
Originally Posted by soapstar View Post
I have never understood the nastiness directed toward the Middleton family. I mean, their business is trashed, their children are called social climbers. From what I can see, they are just living their lives and have done nothing to deserve the vitriol.

And speaking of tacky, I'd find it quite tacky if Alex or his family/friends are the sources for this latest article.
Reply With Quote
  #488  
Old 11-13-2011, 07:04 PM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 18,121
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
Yes, and look how well that turned out? The idea that some people are superior to others because of their "blood lines" is absurd and it's one of the traditions around the monarchy that seems to have finally died out.
.
And the fact that it has died out will presumably soon see the end of the monarchy worldwide. When the King or Queen is as common as the woman or man on the street, what makes the royal family special?

We can all dress up nice, wear a tiara and sit in our own palace not actually doing anything for the country.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #489  
Old 11-13-2011, 07:10 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Palm Beach, United States
Posts: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962
How dare they want the best education available for their children? How dare the Middletons make enough money to send their children to good schools, where they happened meet upper class people and those in their circle? Didn't they know that middle-class people like them should send their kids to state schools where they'd meet people more suitable to breed with???? My questions are, of course, highly tongue-in-cheek.

The fact is that if the Middletons are at all likable, friendly people, they did and will make upper-class friends--at least among those who don't care about "breeding" but judge people on character.

I think there's more to it than just wanting to open up doors for better education and entry into better institutions. I think the British press sees them as the kind of people stuck on appearance - making sure the kids wear the right clothes, have the right hobbies and interests - in order to move ahead in the world. Look, I'm American and things are much different here in terms of social classes and social mobility. But I think what the British press gets at by characterizing them a social climbers is that they were overly ambitious to get ahead by social means and not necessarily by pushing their daughters to be the next CEO or forge a career and create their own glory. I think the Middletons are ambitious to be accepted on social terms, and are very concerned with fitting in, having the right associations, wearing the right things, etc. And frankly, I think the Middletons LOVE the attention that comes from their newly found social acceptance. Perhaps, that love for the attention, and the desire to break into that social strata is what turns off the Loudons/the British press.
Reply With Quote
  #490  
Old 11-13-2011, 07:12 PM
nascarlucy's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central Florida Area, United States
Posts: 1,416
How a person acts or conducts themselves is a good indicator of whether or not they have class as opposed to what socio-economic background they came from. Some people from very humble or middle class backgrounds can be very classy while others who come from upper crust can have no class at all. Breeding has nothing to do with it. It's how they conduct themselves.

Most people want their children to have better opportunties than they did. There is nothing wrong with this. Most of the time the motive had nothing to do with social climbing.
Reply With Quote
  #491  
Old 11-13-2011, 07:32 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Waterford, United States
Posts: 1,455
Common?

Not all commoners are common.

Not all nobles are noble.

The Middletons worked hard, became successful, stayed married (apparently happily), sent their children to the best schools, provided a nice lifestyle for their family, and produced one child who was chosen to be a part of the royal family, a mother (eventually) of a Queen or King.

Whether they are viewed as pushy climbers or not, it's certain that they couldn't possibly have pushed themselves or their daughter into the Palace. William chose her, and his family graciously welcomed her.

I find their lives to be much more successful and admirable than those of some people of royal or noble blood. They didn't divorce, they didn't cheat, they didn't develop a sleazy business. And they earned all the money they spend.

Sometimes the royal gene pool needs refreshing.
Reply With Quote
  #492  
Old 11-13-2011, 08:02 PM
blauerengel's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 1,738
I couldn´t agree more!Some of my favourite royals came from middle-class families and they are doing extremely well,sometimes even better than the "true-blood" royals.
I have never met the Middletons in person but they´ve always seemed like a normal,classy and ambitious family.They have a successful marriage and both Pippa and Kate are smart,independent young women who are trying to live a good life just like everyone else.They have both attended and finished university and never had any scandals (apart from some minor wardrobe malfunctions that were scrutinised in gossip papers like Daily Mail) I don´t know why there is still so much hatred for them,they always well-behave and act with class and integrity and they are very much adored in other countries.The BRF should be happy to have such a lovely,attractive and tough woman like Catherine marry into their family who comes from a solid family background without marital problems like Charles/Diana...
__________________
Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it.
Avoiding danger in the long run is no safer than outright exposure.
Life is either a daring adventure,or nothing
. Helen Keller
Reply With Quote
  #493  
Old 11-13-2011, 08:42 PM
Zonk's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere in, United States
Posts: 11,330
Does anyone remember the comments that were made about the Middleton's after William and Kate spilt?

If you do, than you might agree with me that this "Pippa isn't marriage material" sounds like a play by play story from the Daily Mail.

Frankly, if the Loudon's are discreet as the paper suggest they are...than why would they comment about Pippa at all? Wouldn't they just prefer that the break up be last week's story. Why add fuel to the fire.

I think the Loudons probably did like Pippa, maybe didn't they she was marriage material (because they are low key and she doesn't appear to be) but have no desire to comment about the story at all. Methinks someone took it upon them self to add one plus one and come up with three.

So I wouldn't put the blame on Alex or his parents.
__________________
.

Reply With Quote
  #494  
Old 11-13-2011, 09:16 PM
Mermaid1962's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NearTheCoast, Canada
Posts: 6,006
You're right, Zonk. I'd forgotten about that. Someone at the Daily Mail loves to see the Middletons humiliated and has highly snobbish, chatty sources. Or the DM makes it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
Does anyone remember the comments that were made about the Middleton's after William and Kate spilt?

If you do, than you might agree with me that this "Pippa isn't marriage material" sounds like a play by play story from the Daily Mail.
Reply With Quote
  #495  
Old 11-13-2011, 09:18 PM
4Pam's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: N/A, United States
Posts: 2,966
Pippa can't help what has happened to her socially. If the Loudon's don't like it too bad. I don't see how Pippa isn't "wife material" either.
__________________
Absence is, in my opinion, important to find out whether something in your life is meaningful and important! It may be difficult to endure, but the end result is always revealing.
Reply With Quote
  #496  
Old 11-13-2011, 09:25 PM
Zonk's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere in, United States
Posts: 11,330
Well you could look at "not being wife material" a couple of different ways in my book.

Of course, there is the she isn't proper wife material in a social class kind of way. Not our kind of people is a phrase used in the states for different social classes.

Or you could think that Pippa is not wife material because at this point she simply isn't ready to settle down, marry and have a family and leave the party circuit. Just like some men aren't husband material because they still want to sow their wild oats.

There is nothing wrong with that imo. If you aren't ready to get married than you shouldn't. It could be that Pippa and Alex are a different points in their life and they want different things. Alex might like to go out with couples and have a somewhat quiet life. Pippa might like to be in the midst of things, at all the hot spots. To see and be seen.

Frankly, that is no good for a marriage unless one or the other compromises. Ands its no use pretending otherwise. I had a good friend whose first husband (yes she is on number two but I think this one is a keeper), the day after they got back from their honeymoon...he was at the club with his boys? That was just ONE of many signs that they weren't going to work out.
__________________
.

Reply With Quote
  #497  
Old 11-13-2011, 09:25 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,272
^^^^
Pretty much agree. The press can be snootier than many of the oldest aristocratic families. The media give attention to Pippa because she is beautiful and she sells papers, but it is typical of the press to build a person up only to later tear them down. Pippa will be an easy target because right now the press cannot attack her sister.
Reply With Quote
  #498  
Old 11-13-2011, 09:30 PM
Zonk's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere in, United States
Posts: 11,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanQueen View Post
I think there's more to it than just wanting to open up doors for better education and entry into better institutions. I think the British press sees them as the kind of people stuck on appearance - making sure the kids wear the right clothes, have the right hobbies and interests - in order to move ahead in the world. Look, I'm American and things are much different here in terms of social classes and social mobility. But I think what the British press gets at by characterizing them a social climbers is that they were overly ambitious to get ahead by social means and not necessarily by pushing their daughters to be the next CEO or forge a career and create their own glory. I think the Middletons are ambitious to be accepted on social terms, and are very concerned with fitting in, having the right associations, wearing the right things, etc. And frankly, I think the Middletons LOVE the attention that comes from their newly found social acceptance. Perhaps, that love for the attention, and the desire to break into that social strata is what turns off the Loudons/the British press.
How do the Middleton's love the attention?

Other than Pippa, who do you see in the press a couple of times a week?

And really, does the press need to take a picture of Pippa when she is out and about shopping and/or getting a cup of coffee?

Pippa might like the attention of the press but I don't think she is calling them. Its like they are stalking her.
__________________
.

Reply With Quote
  #499  
Old 11-13-2011, 09:33 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Durham, United States
Posts: 1,302
Quote:
Originally Posted by expat View Post
I was thinking more on the line of breeding, and of course I know they are already millionaires, I was talking about the future, I can't see that tacky party stuff will be that in demand in the future. The Queen gave her permission to the marriage so no one can complain but, thank goodness, we can still express our opinions.
As far as what I can interpret from the article the ex boyfriend and his family were fine until she started to flirt with the newspapers and old flames.
I always think that term is hilarious. Pardon me, but the only people who still use it are massive snobs and the very very elderly. IMHO, breeding has to do with horses, dogs, cats etc., it really has no place with reference to human beings. Of course I'm guessing that people who use the term consider themselves to have the proper kind of "breeding" in order to make such judgements.

ETA, certainly there is social mobility in the US but ANYONE who says there is not snobbery and classism just isn't hooked into reality. The schools you go to, where you live, where you go to university even to a certain extent what religious denomination you belong to says a lot. Just going to the "right" schools (private in this country) can pave the way for success all the way, assuming one is reasonably intelligent. BUT even that being the case, if "one" doesn't live in the proper area of a city or town it can have major repercussions despite the proper schools. Snobbery is EVERYWHERE!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #500  
Old 11-13-2011, 09:39 PM
HRHHermione's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Boston, United States
Posts: 2,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
And the fact that it has died out will presumably soon see the end of the monarchy worldwide. When the King or Queen is as common as the woman or man on the street, what makes the royal family special?
How they behave and the service they give to their country. The Royal Family inherited their privilege, but they have to work hard every day to keep it. I doubt we'll see the monarchy fade away as long as the royal families continue to work hard and contribute and make sure they represent their countries admirably.

And some of the "commoner" royals have been fantastic at this- look at how much Crown Princess Mary helps the image of the Danish Royals, and how great Prince Daniel has been in Sweden.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
duke and duchess of cambridge, kate middleton, new york, pippa middleton


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Duchess of Cambridge: Family, Wealth and Background sara1981 The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and Family 2614 12-05-2016 09:06 AM
Catherine Middleton Jewellery (to April 2011) HRHAmy Royal Jewels 151 04-29-2011 08:39 AM
Prince William and Catherine Middleton Current Events 8: November 2009-April 29, 2011 Zonk Current Events Archive 1144 04-28-2011 08:00 PM
Catherine Middleton Current Events 1: November 2010-April 29, 2011 Warren Current Events Archive 451 04-28-2011 08:00 PM




Popular Tags
ascot 2016 best gown best gown september 2016 best hat best outfit birthday catherine middleton style coup d'etat crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion crown princess mette-marit current events duchess of cambridge e-mail fashion poll grand duke jean greece kate middleton king abdullah ii king felipe king felipe vi king willem-alexander margrethe ii member introduction monarchy new zealand nobel gala norway november 2016 october 2016 opening of parliament picture of the week president nieto; state visit prince alexander of sweden prince bernhard prince charles prince joachim princess eugenie fashion princess marie princess mary princess mary daytime fashion princess mary fashion princess mary hats queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen letizia style queen mathilde queen mathildes outfits queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania royal fashion september 2016 sonja state visit state visit to denmark succession sweden the duchess of cambridge the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:53 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016
Jelsoft Enterprises