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  #141  
Old 05-28-2011, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by monica17 View Post
Does anyone know how much she gets from the Civil List as her allowance?

Nothing.

Only the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh get anything from the Civil List.

Kate will being supported by Charles and William - from the Duchy of Cornwall estate and William's inheritance from his mother and his RAF salary during the present reign. Then when Charles becomes King William will have all the income of the Duchy of Cornwall, less what he decides to give as taxes, assuming he follows his father's lead and voluntarily gives some of the income for that purpose. Then when William is King she will have some income paid by the government, although the Civil List is about to be changed to a set income from the Crown Estates, to cover her official expenses.

Charles has the income of the Duchy of Cornwall as that is the income for the Duke of Cornwall and he is expected to support his family from this money so he presumably also gives William and Harry an allowance from that to go with their inheritance and military pay.

The Queen pays for the rest of the royal family from her private income from sources such as the Duchy of Lancaster estate.

The Civil List only funds the official side of the Queen and Duke's duties and not their private life.
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  #142  
Old 05-28-2011, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The name Pippa is a common nickname for girls named Philippa and this is the case here as well.
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  #143  
Old 05-30-2011, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Nothing.

Only the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh get anything from the Civil List.

Kate will being supported by Charles and William - from the Duchy of Cornwall estate and William's inheritance from his mother and his RAF salary during the present reign. Then when Charles becomes King William will have all the income of the Duchy of Cornwall, less what he decides to give as taxes, assuming he follows his father's lead and voluntarily gives some of the income for that purpose. Then when William is King she will have some income paid by the government, although the Civil List is about to be changed to a set income from the Crown Estates, to cover her official expenses.

Charles has the income of the Duchy of Cornwall as that is the income for the Duke of Cornwall and he is expected to support his family from this money so he presumably also gives William and Harry an allowance from that to go with their inheritance and military pay.

The Queen pays for the rest of the royal family from her private income from sources such as the Duchy of Lancaster estate.

The Civil List only funds the official side of the Queen and Duke's duties and not their private life.
Thank you very much for this information. I realise from your post that the Civil List has been changed since I first read about it years ago... and since I have been reading up on the 18th century most of the time, all I remember is that Caroline of Brunswick, as Princess of Wales, initially received an annual allowance of £5,000, voted from the increase her husband had in his allowance as a married man. That would be around £5 M/year in today's worth.

Anything heard of in form of Kate's dowry, if any?

I'm not sure if Diana's family had to pay any dowry but Grace Kelly's family did give a dowry, and much fuss has been made about the Middleton family's wealth..... The author of the Princess In Waiting book made a big fuss about how the Middletons' wealth (some £64,000 in 1884, said to be £33,000,000 worth in today's money) was inherited wealth but by the 1950s, it was down to about £20,000 - £1.3 M in today's value - and split among 4 children - ...I'm not very convinced about her assertations that the Middletons had a "fortune" (£64,000 in the late 19th century was quite a handsome amount, but her paternal ancestors were far from being millionaires either), and that's how Kate's family came about their wealth (and leading Kate to Buckingham Palace's gates) and not through the family business Party Pieces.

At any rate, using 18th century perspective (truly a splendid era for royals), my favourite princess (a daughter of Empress Maria Theresa) had much more than the £64,000 "fortune" of the Middletons in form of an annual allowance, not including the money from the family's appanages in Spain. Clearly, the author did not have what I'd call the "royal perspective" in such matters, calling £64,000 "staggering"!
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  #144  
Old 05-30-2011, 07:52 AM
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Just a small correction - Charles will probably not become King William, but King George VII.
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  #145  
Old 05-30-2011, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Renata4711 View Post

Presumably Kate helped out in her parents' business??

If not, then she can be forgiven for preparing herself for a potential / possible future with William.

Where's the harm in that?
There is no harm per se, and if she saw herself as having a potential future with Prince William and wanted to devote her time and efforts to that, then of course she had the free will and choice not to have a career.

It's just that a university graduate (among the top schools in the UK and rated highly worldwide as well, albeit with an Art History degree) who studied at an expensive boarding school as well, could've done much more. Other commoners who married into European royal families (Maxima of the Netherlands, Mary of Denmark, Letizia of Spain) had at least their careers to be proud of. Note that Maxima and (especially the aristocratic) Mathilde of Belgium (seemingly) came from a much wealthier/more prestigious backgrounds than Kate yet both strived and excelled in their chosen careers. All ladies married in their late 20s-early 30s, given enough time to develop a career.

I've read that Kate did help out in the family business, and that during that time the "Princess" line came out.
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  #146  
Old 05-30-2011, 09:55 AM
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Two points: 1) Maxima was already working when she met her future husband.
2) The "princess" line had been available long before Catherine was announced working for the family business.
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  #147  
Old 05-30-2011, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by AuroraB View Post
Two points:
1) Maxima was already working when she met her future husband.
2) The "princess" line had been available long before Catherine was announced working for the family business.
Yes, of course I know Maxima was already working when she met the Crown Prince of the Netherlands. She was an international investment banker, I believe. The point is, she was not waiting (seemingly) to catch (or to marry) a prince (so to speak) and didn't even believe her husband when he first told her he was a prince.

I stand corrected on the second point. Thank you!
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  #148  
Old 05-30-2011, 10:11 AM
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I think the point is that is its unfair to judge Catherine by the same standards as Maxima, Letizia and Mary.

They met their husbands AFTER they had established their careers. Catherine met hers in college. Yes, like a lot of women but let's face it not a lot of these women are marrying Princes. And with his schedule, it would have impossible to carry on a normal job. Does anyone remember how she was "stalked" by the press when she worked at Jigsaw. Who wants that outside of their business everyday? Working for her parents, in their home was a better option for her. And as someone who has worked for family and myself, I am here to tell you that sometimes you work a lot harder for them (and yourself) than if you worked for someone else (i.e. a company).

Its pretty clear that at some point both William and Catherine, as two educated consenting adults made a decision regarding their future, so who are we to say she is not fulfilling her potential? Her education was paid for by her parents, was it not? She didn't attend university on public funds did she? If her parents are okay with it, who are we to judge? And let's not talk about providing a bad example for young ladies, their are plenty of "bad examples" out there for people to emulate. And frankly, its not uncommon for women of a certain social class to educate themselves, not have a substantial or a career at all and than marry.

ETA: If there should be a comparison, it should be with Grand Duchess Maria Theresa of Luxembourgh. She met her husband at University the only difference is that they married a year after graduation. And William and Kate waited 8 to 9.
They are married now, so I am a bit confused why we are rehashing this old argument.
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  #149  
Old 05-30-2011, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
I think the point is that is its unfair to judge Catherine by the same standards as Maxima, Letizia and Mary.

They met their husbands AFTER they had established their careers. Catherine met hers in college. Yes, like a lot of women but let's face it not a lot of these women are marrying Princes. And with his schedule, it would have impossible to carry on a normal job. Does anyone remember how she was "stalked" by the press when she worked at Jigsaw. Who wants that outside of their business everyday? Working for her parents, in their home was a better option for her. And as someone who has worked for family and myself, I am here to tell you that sometimes you work a lot harder for them (and yourself) than if you worked for someone else (i.e. a company).

Its pretty clear that at some point both William and Catherine, as two educated consenting adults made a decision regarding their future, so who are we to say she is not fulfilling her potential? Her education was paid for by her parents, was it not? She didn't attend university on public funds did she? If her parents are okay with it, who are we to judge? And let's not talk about providing a bad example for young ladies, their are plenty of "bad examples" out there for people to emulate.

They are married now, so I am a bit confused why we are rehashing this old argument.
I don't think it's unfair but if you think so......

Yes, I know about the stalking part when Kate had her job at Jigsaw but surely there are "quiet" and meaningful things she could've done with her time instead of being a "socialite" or appearing at "events"? Charity work for instance (albeit very quietly, not the kind of charity work for publicity). It is possible.

I never made a statement about how Kate is a bad example, nor did I ever bring up who paid for her university education. I can tell you a lot of girls (where I live) look up to her. And indeed, if her parents are fine with her doing nothing with her education, then that's up to them. I'm not even a UK resident or citizen who pays taxes there so I'd never bring up the public funds thing.

Also, I returned to TRF recently so it's only now that I'm reading up into the present royals (and the BRF in particular due to the recent wedding). I've been at the Alexander Palace Time Machine forums more in the past couple of years or so due to its discussions/sections on past royals.... so it seems to you that I've been rehashing "this old argument".

==========
Sadly, based on the last post, the forum (or at least some members) seems a bit deficient in courtesy if someone has other ideas (on their favourite royals), not to mention putting words into other people's mouths......
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  #150  
Old 05-30-2011, 12:04 PM
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I just feel that the marriage has been a "done deal" for some time now - so why rehash what was before?

Much more fun checking out what's going on in their life .... and waiting for more developments :-)
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  #151  
Old 05-30-2011, 01:06 PM
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I don't get how her having a full time job working for her parents, coming up with the branch first birthday equals her not doing anything with her life. She was the liason between party pieces and Starlight Children Foundations. She even organize a charity event with Holly Branson

And that after her fail mail-order baby clothes and working for Jigsaw.
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  #152  
Old 05-30-2011, 04:59 PM
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Yes, I know about the stalking part when Kate had her job at Jigsaw but surely there are "quiet" and meaningful things she could've done with her time instead of being a "socialite" or appearing at "events"? Charity work for instance (albeit very quietly, not the kind of charity work for publicity). It is possible.
How do we know she didn't do those sorts of things? If she did the sort of charity work that's "quiet', and "not for publicity" then doesn't it follow that we, the public, aren't going to know about it?

In the same way we're not going to get proof that she did actual work for her parents' company - we're not going to get any photos of Kate sitting at the office at the family home working on her laptop the way we get photos of her going to a club or polo match with William. But that doesn't mean the work didn't occur!
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  #153  
Old 05-30-2011, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Renata4711 View Post
I just feel that the marriage has been a "done deal" for some time now - so why rehash what was before?

Much more fun checking out what's going on in their life .... and waiting for more developments :-)
Like I said, it's only recently that I went back to reading about present royals....

You're right though, let's see what happens....

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Originally Posted by miche View Post
I don't get how her having a full time job working for her parents, coming up with the branch first birthday equals her not doing anything with her life. She was the liason between party pieces and Starlight Children Foundations. She even organize a charity event with Holly Branson

And that after her fail mail-order baby clothes and working for Jigsaw.
To each his own, I guess, as these things can be quite relative. Maybe it's just me who thinks her lack of career is quite puzzling, given her education and intelligence.

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How do we know she didn't do those sorts of things? If she did the sort of charity work that's "quiet', and "not for publicity" then doesn't it follow that we, the public, aren't going to know about it?

In the same way we're not going to get proof that she did actual work for her parents' company - we're not going to get any photos of Kate sitting at the office at the family home working on her laptop the way we get photos of her going to a club or polo match with William. But that doesn't mean the work didn't occur!
Re: doing charity work quietly, what you said is possible. If she indeed did meaningful things quietly, then I'd be the first to cheer her on!
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  #154  
Old 05-31-2011, 12:05 AM
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I think the point is that is its unfair to judge Catherine by the same standards as Maxima, Letizia and Mary.

They met their husbands AFTER they had established their careers. Catherine met hers in college. Yes, like a lot of women but let's face it not a lot of these women are marrying Princes. And with his schedule, it would have impossible to carry on a normal job. Does anyone remember how she was "stalked" by the press when she worked at Jigsaw. Who wants that outside of their business everyday? Working for her parents, in their home was a better option for her. And as someone who has worked for family and myself, I am here to tell you that sometimes you work a lot harder for them (and yourself) than if you worked for someone else (i.e. a company).
Thank you. In the long run, I believe Catherine and William chose this path to keep their relationship as private as possible. Party Pieces and Berkshire protected her like no other, and just because she worked for her family does NOT mean she was idle. Unjust insinuations, in my opinion, and stirred by an upset media that would have rather had her working in London so they could photograph her everyday like they did when she worked for Jigsaw.
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  #155  
Old 05-31-2011, 07:37 AM
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Thank you. In the long run, I believe Catherine and William chose this path to keep their relationship as private as possible. Party Pieces and Berkshire protected her like no other, and just because she worked for her family does NOT mean she was idle. Unjust insinuations, in my opinion, and stirred by an upset media that would have rather had her working in London so they could photograph her everyday like they did when she worked for Jigsaw.
I second that. I don't understand why some people say that, post-graduating, all she did was waiting for William and did not have an active career. Just because much has taken place in the shadows and behind the scenes (Party Pieces, First Birthdays) doesn't mean that she didn't do anything. IMO a lot took place for privacy reasons, and again IMO rightfully so.
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  #156  
Old 05-31-2011, 10:17 AM
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I'd rather wait for concrete proof of such things rather than getting into mere guesses/inferences/opinions at this point. Like I said, I'd be the first to cheer her on if that was the case.
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  #157  
Old 05-31-2011, 10:44 AM
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I'd rather for concrete proof of such things rather than getting into mere guesses/inferences/opinions at this point. Like I said, I'd be the first to cheer her on if that was the case.
While I do understand your point, I think it's rather futile to "expect" or "want" concrete proof about things like these.
Until her wedding on April 29th, Catherine was a private citizen and as such not obliged to disclose anything.
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  #158  
Old 05-31-2011, 10:54 AM
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While I do understand your point, I think it's rather futile to "expect" or "want" concrete proof about things like these.
Until her wedding on April 29th, Catherine was a private citizen and as such not obliged to disclose anything.
I get your point. I'm a fan of most royals. However, I dislike "fawning" over or exaggerating the attributes of royals. I neither like nor dislike her at this point.. and I do like to be surprised.

===========

So, can anyone please answer my earlier question, with dowry or no dowry?
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  #159  
Old 05-31-2011, 11:09 AM
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I doubt Catherine had a dowry to give, such an old fashioned concept. But we will never know for truth.
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  #160  
Old 05-31-2011, 12:38 PM
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... A dowry? Really? I think we can safely assume no
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