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  #741  
Old 02-19-2013, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
And if David Cameron comments on it, it draws more attention to Hilary's very words and keeps the subject going on.

However, even I think Hilary's words a bit uncalled for, and I tend to think public figures fairer game than most. I'm still trying to figure out a purpose in her commentary. If she had a political opinion on Kate's work, her vacation schedule, etc, then I think fine, fire away. She's entitled to her opinion and to voice it, but still, what was the purpose in calling her a plastic mannequin or words to that effect?
Have you read the piece in its entirety? It was a lecture on the way royal bodies are viewed by press and public placed in historical context alongside other royal figures and how they've been viewed.
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  #742  
Old 02-19-2013, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
And if David Cameron comments on it, it draws more attention to Hilary's very words and keeps the subject going on.

However, even I think Hilary's words a bit uncalled for, and I tend to think public figures fairer game than most. I'm still trying to figure out a purpose in her commentary. If she had a political opinion on Kate's work, her vacation schedule, etc, then I think fine, fire away. She's entitled to her opinion and to voice it, but still, what was the purpose in calling her a plastic mannequin or words to that effect?
She is not calling her a plastic mannequin..She is telling we just see her as a plastic mannequin, just based on her clothes, or her pregnancy, or whatever, without any importance to her own personality. And she is telling we did the same to Diana and we shouldnot repeat the same for Kate..
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  #743  
Old 02-19-2013, 03:08 PM
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Hermione, nice explanation. It is a pity that we all (me too) need someone else to analyse every article for us and tell the real stuff. We are so impatient to understand it in full on our own, and simply lash out with opinions instantaneously, basing on some "key words".
What amuses me is almost every newspaper have potrayed the views, as if they look critical of Kate. While actually the views are critical of the media in the first place.
Once again a fantastic trechearous job by the media of deflecting criticism to someone else, or diverting it to a fight..
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  #744  
Old 02-19-2013, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post

Designed by who?
She didn't say. She just said it was as if Catherine was designed. I assume she means to it the role of a royal wife.

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Originally Posted by vkrish View Post

She is not calling her a plastic mannequin..She is telling we just see her as a plastic mannequin, just based on her clothes, or her pregnancy, or whatever, without any importance to her own personality. And she is telling we did the same to Diana and we shouldnot repeat the same for Kate..
I listened to the authors own words this afternoon, out if her own mouth and there was no mention of media perception of Catherine or how 'they' view her. It was Hilary's opinion that Catherine is a mannequin.
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  #745  
Old 02-19-2013, 03:53 PM
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Eh, this woman wants to promote her books, and this is easy publicity!

Personally, I loathe hearing childbirth referred to as breeding. Having children is a joy and a privilege, and I believe that is the way Kate and William view it, not as some reluctant chore.
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  #746  
Old 02-19-2013, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
Designed by who?
She said (I'm doing this from memory) "by a committee" - I interpreted this as Catherine is presented as an amalgam of media concepts rather than as the real person. And as you said, because she is private as an individual, they are able to creat her as they wish.

Really great posts HRHHermione. I cant decide whether this is deliberate obfuscation by the press or that they are too dim to understand what she was saying. They then just present the "interesting bits"
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  #747  
Old 02-19-2013, 04:10 PM
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Lumutqueen, that's how I understood Hilary's thoughts.

I think it's a shame that she said things like that and haven't actually met The Duchess of Cambridge.

At least her name is being mentioned in the media now. I have never heard about her before. She said those things because she knew it would get picked up in the press and now shes getting the notoriety she wanted.
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  #748  
Old 02-19-2013, 04:23 PM
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Eh, this woman wants to promote her books, and this is easy publicity!
This woman doesn't need to promote her books, her two booker prizes, tv series and millions of copies sold are promotion on it's own. This was a speech/lecture on media and royal women. Hilary just said what she wanted to.

As for the breeding issue, several people on this forum have stated on more than one occasion that Catherine is doing her one and only job of producing an heir. Hilary isn't the only one to see Catherine for that use.
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  #749  
Old 02-19-2013, 04:53 PM
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Kate Williams: 'Hilary Mantel has a point':
BBC News - Kate Williams: 'Hilary Mantel has a point'

If that's the case, then I'm sorry that I took her lecture the wrong way.

I just feel bad that her words overshadowed the purpose of Catherine's official engagement.
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  #750  
Old 02-19-2013, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Tiggersk8 View Post
Funny, as for the most part, people were pretty outraged those topless photos happened. Remember, they were on *Private* property and considering how far away from the road they were, had every expectation of just that. Privacy.

IMO, the only ones who got damaged by that entire mess was the Media. They did something that crossed the line *Big Time* and, then when William and Kate took legal action and rightfully so I might add, is when the attacks started to take place in earnest.

I mean...How dare they do this to the Media, so in turn, we'll just take our revenge out on them by tearing them down in the Papers/Radio and TV Stations. All we need to do is take an innocent statement, put it out of context in an article or state Kate/William said this, when actually that's not what they said at all, but hey...Who cares about the actual truth anymore!?! Especially if it means we get a bit of our own back for the nerve of them wanting to have a bit of privacy when not on duty?

What's been done to Harry the last few weeks is a perfect example of that. If anyone had actually seen the British Armed Forces doc Prince on a Mission, they'd see that all of the "whining" and so on we were all "told Harry had done and in turn, had disgraced himself and the uniform", didn't really take place. What had actually happened is Harry said a few things about the Media that they didn't like and they in turn twisted certain clips to make it seem that Captain Wales actually did come across as a spoilt little Prince.

It's up over at YouTube for those interested in seeing what Harry *actually* said BTW. Anyway....

Just like all of the fuss over the Bikini pics. Who is it that's actually screaming Bloody Murder and Foul in Public? Not Will and Kate, but the Press. All that's been said by the Cambridges is that they were deeply disappointed it happened and that was it and that was all. It's the Press that's turned it into something far worse.

Sadly in this age of instant news and everyone having such hectic busy lives, no one really has the time these day to sit down and see if what's being told to us by the Press/Media is the actual truthful story and facts or not. So in turn, most People believe exactly what they're being told these day and leaving it at that.

Which scares me, as that's not the kind of World I'd like to live in. :(

Now, I'd love to think I'm going to be reading some great informative articles tomorrow/later today about the great work Action on Addiction's doing and what exactly the Centre HRH is visiting does, but I know there'll only be a couple of snippets on that if we're lucky. Reality wise, it'll be all about what she's wearing, then how we haven't seen her since late November/early December and the vacation.

Sad and frustrating all rolled up into one.

Still looking forward to seeing Kate out and about again. I just wish the Media would grow up and act like the supposed adults they are w/the coverage, but... :(
I completely agree with your comments regarding the media and their coverage of the Cambridges and Harry.
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  #751  
Old 02-19-2013, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
This woman doesn't need to promote her books, her two booker prizes, tv series and millions of copies sold are promotion on it's own. This was a speech/lecture on media and royal women. Hilary just said what she wanted to.

As for the breeding issue, several people on this forum have stated on more than one occasion that Catherine is doing her one and only job of producing an heir. Hilary isn't the only one to see Catherine for that use.

I realize she is well-regarded as a writer, but I still think she is out to garner publicity and promote her books. Does she need to? Perhaps, perhaps not. But this appears to be an attention-getting ploy.

As for the idea that Catherine's one and only job is to produce an heir...?? Some people may think so, but I don't believe the majority do.
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  #752  
Old 02-19-2013, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
She said (I'm doing this from memory) "by a committee" - I interpreted this as Catherine is presented as an amalgam of media concepts rather than as the real person. And as you said, because she is private as an individual, they are able to creat her as they wish.

Really great posts HRHHermione. I cant decide whether this is deliberate obfuscation by the press or that they are too dim to understand what she was saying. They then just present the "interesting bits"
Exactly- that's why I phrased the question the way I did- to point out that she was indeed promoting the idea that Catherine's media persona is a collection of tropes assigned to her by the public and the press and very little of it has much to do with Catherine as a human.

And I think the media is presenting it this way because controversy sells, they love promoting the "cat fight" angle where two successful women are at odds for some reason, and because it was a fairly insightful criticism of the job they do so they have a vested interest in making sure most of it is disregarded.
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  #753  
Old 02-19-2013, 07:29 PM
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Hilary Mantel is certainly intelligent enough to know exactly how her comments would be taken when she made them. She knows we live in a soundbite world where people don't read essays, they just consume a few lines summarising them, if that. She should've taken greater care when addressing one of the world's most talked about individuals.
I am assuming this same "knowledge" would apply to the RF as they go about their business. Interesting how those expectations only apply to some.
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  #754  
Old 02-19-2013, 08:06 PM
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I read the essay and thought it was brilliant.

Here are two good texts about this issue and how the press has totally twisted the things:

Hilary Mantel's precise, unkind words have been twisted into a "venomous" attack on Kate
Hilary Mantel v the Duchess of Cambridge: a story of lazy journalism and raging hypocrisy | Hadley Freeman | Comment is free | The Guardian

I like particularly this last one, that also touches the stupid attacks some people have made about Mantell's appearance and the fact that when a woman criticises another woman, the first is always regarded as jealous (Haven't we seen this here in the forum?)
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  #755  
Old 02-19-2013, 08:10 PM
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I read the essay and thought it was brilliant.

Here are two good texts about this issue and how the press has totally twisted the things:

Hilary Mantel's precise, unkind words have been twisted into a "venomous" attack on Kate
Hilary Mantel v the Duchess of Cambridge: a story of lazy journalism and raging hypocrisy | Hadley Freeman | Comment is free | The Guardian

I like particularly this last one, that also touches the stupid attacks some people have made about Mantell's appearance and the fact that when a woman criticises another woman, the first is always regarded as jealous (Haven't we seen this here in the forum?)

You're right, the last one is spot on and really well done. The part about the Daily Mail had me laughing out loud.
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  #756  
Old 02-19-2013, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by julliette View Post
I read the essay and thought it was brilliant.

Here are two good texts about this issue and how the press has totally twisted the things:

Hilary Mantel's precise, unkind words have been twisted into a "venomous" attack on Kate
Hilary Mantel v the Duchess of Cambridge: a story of lazy journalism and raging hypocrisy | Hadley Freeman | Comment is free | The Guardian

I like particularly this last one, that also touches the stupid attacks some people have made about Mantell's appearance and the fact that when a woman criticises another woman, the first is always regarded as jealous (Haven't we seen this here in the forum?)
Thank you for these. The first really defines the Daily Mail - especially the line about all it can do is "savage".
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  #757  
Old 02-19-2013, 08:37 PM
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It seems this whom thing is a lie created by the media and the majority are too stupid or lazy to actual find out what was said. I try to stay out of it and not read any article or the speech/essay itself. But from comments on this board it appears this Hilary person is critiquing the image of Kate created by the media who refuse to view her as a real person.
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  #758  
Old 02-19-2013, 08:51 PM
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It seems this whom thing is a lie created by the media and the majority are too stupid or lazy to actual find out what was said. I try to stay out of it and not read any article or the speech/essay itself. But from comments on this board it appears this Hilary person is critiquing the image of Kate created by the media who refuse to view her as a real person.
I dont know if you've had a chance to read them, but HRHHermione has done a really great analysis of this over 2 or 3 posts in response to questions/comments - posts #715,#716, #718 plus a couple of later ones.
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  #759  
Old 02-19-2013, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by EIIR View Post
Hilary Mantel is certainly intelligent enough to know exactly how her comments would be taken when she made them. She knows we live in a soundbite world where people don't read essays, they just consume a few lines summarising them, if that. She should've taken greater care when addressing one of the world's most talked about individuals.
I agree. I had no idea who this Author was . I looked it up and she's very accomplished I really don't see the point in taking potshots at Catherine.
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  #760  
Old 02-19-2013, 10:01 PM
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She didn't take any pot-shots at Catherine - she made them at the media.
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