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  #1261  
Old 11-01-2014, 11:40 PM
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This has probably come up lots earlier in the thread but I think Charles has more to do with the level of public engagements performed by William and Kate (and Harry) than the Queen.

Charles not only gives William and Harry yearly allowances from his Duchy money but pays for most of Kate's official wardrobe plus expenses like their Royal Protection Officers. This comes out of Duchy of Cornwall money.

It cost Charles (the Duchy) about a million pounds last financial year to subsidise the Cambridges and Harry in their royal duties, including the Aus/NZ tour. Therefore it became known, quietly, that Charles wasn't willing for that rate of expenditure to continue, year after year.

I believe that William is not terribly enthusiastic about his destiny (though he seems to have embraced it) or royal duties particularly. So his father's reluctance to put his hand in his pocket too much probably coincides with William's wish to live a 'normal' life. Or what he fondly imagines resembles a normal life.

I think the Cambridges could be doing a lot more for their charities than they are doing at present without it impacting on their private family time, William's study time etc, but that is neither here nor there.

Charles has expressed his frustration that the media aren't taking as much notice of his charities as he feels they should. (His Press Officer has recently departed.) Charles also wants Camilla's popularity to increase in the run-up to the next reign.

Richard Palmer, Royal Correspondent of the Express newspaper, has stated
several times that at the moment the only royal practically guaranteed media coverage on engagements within Britain is the Duchess of Cambridge.

Charles should be happy with the media covering his and Camilla's tour of Columbia and Mexico. However, I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to imagine that, if Kate is taking a back seat in royal engagements within Britain, that Charles might wish for some media attention to alight on
himself and his wife, for a change.
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  #1262  
Old 11-02-2014, 12:00 AM
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Charles does NOT pay for the RPO's for his family. They are police officers of the Metropolitan Police and are paid for totally by the British taxpayers.

Why Charles would be happy with the media coverage he is receiving on this tour I don't know - what coverage? There has been virtually none or it is so far down the page as to hardly rate. William and Kate get half a dozen articles per engagement and Charles is lucky to get one article when he does half a dozen engagements. If William and Kate were doing this tour there would have been hundreds of press there but Charles is lucky if there are any media. William and Kate engender international coverage, Charles doesn't.

Charles could easily fund more engagements for William and Kate - as they write off the costs of engagements as tax deductions anyway so he would pay less tax. He has an income of 19 million pounds and William is also a very wealthy man in his own right thanks to his inheritance from Diana - why he or Harry should be expecting their father to still support them given their inheritance I don't know - have they no pride. I would disown any child of mine that expected me to support them when in their 30s especially if they had a multi-million inheritance from their deceased parent.
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  #1263  
Old 11-02-2014, 12:22 AM
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I really like your post, Curryong!

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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
This has probably come up lots earlier in the thread but I think Charles has more to do with the level of public engagements performed by William and Kate (and Harry) than the Queen.
I agree. At least at this juncture. It's been mentioned that The Way Ahead Committee is no more since around 2011. If that is really so or is just being put out that it is so, what seems clear is that there has been a shift, probably to be expected with an aging sovereign. Charles simply is holding more of the reins of monarchy now. I think that could be a fair supposition. We can't know for certain but it's fair to suppose that, I think.

Quote:
Charles not only gives William and Harry yearly allowances from his Duchy money but pays for most of Kate's official wardrobe plus expenses like their Royal Protection Officers. This comes out of Duchy of Cornwall money.

It cost Charles (the Duchy) about a million pounds last financial year to subsidise the Cambridges and Harry in their royal duties, including the Aus/NZ tour. Therefore it became known, quietly, that Charles wasn't willing for that rate of expenditure to continue, year after year.
Is that an actual fact? Charles said so?

EDIT LATER: I have just seen Iluvbertie's post above and agree with what she says. This idea of Charles paying or not wanting to pay is a new wrinkle I have yet to fully understand. Regarding his recent tour, though, I saw coverage here in LA. I don't pay that much attention overall to these things but my sense was that Charles and Camilla were getting mentions, as much as William and Kate would have (which is not a lot, we are not a Dominion). Maybe it has to do with our Mexican population.

Quote:
I believe that William is not terribly enthusiastic about his destiny (though he seems to have embraced it) or royal duties particularly. So his father's reluctance to put his hand in his pocket too much probably coincides with William's wish to live a 'normal' life. Or what he fondly imagines resembles a normal life.
Well said. A lot of wishes are coinciding, in any event, even if the money aspect is not quite the way it swings.

Quote:
I think the Cambridges could be doing a lot more for their charities than they are doing at present without it impacting on their private family time, William's study time etc, but that is neither here nor there.
I agree here (to an extent). I would go beyond that. An evening out at the opera, or a play, would be invigorating after a day of nappies, though we know that they are not really tied to their son in that way. They have help for that.

It's the complete absence of at least a publicly observed social life, creating a whirl of glitz and glamour, that strikes me as unusual. It's the total lack of public appearances of any kind, the void of a willingness to be seen by 'the people', that would effortlessly send a message of affection, that seems odd. (I have no interest in the charity visits myself).

Quote:
Charles has expressed his frustration that the media aren't taking as much notice of his charities as he feels they should. (His Press Officer has recently departed.) Charles also wants Camilla's popularity to increase in the run-up to the next reign.
So you see a calculation in William and Catherine staying in the shadows. There might be merit to the speculation but you are positing what Charles thinks and that's always a dicey business. We can't know those things.

Quote:
Richard Palmer, Royal Correspondent of the Express newspaper, has stated
several times that at the moment the only royal practically guaranteed media coverage on engagements within Britain is the Duchess of Cambridge.
Interesting. Not Harry, too? Bet if Harry married (Cressida, anyone) the numbers would sky rocket, mainly because Harry conveys the impression he likes what he's doing and likes 'the people'. Important charisma to possess.

Quote:
Charles should be happy with the media covering his and Camilla's tour of Columbia and Mexico. However, I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to imagine that, if Kate is taking a back seat in royal engagements within Britain, that Charles might wish for some media attention to alight on
himself and his wife, for a change.
I'm not sure I would go this far. It has a hint of the old Charles and Diana days when it was widely spun that Charles was jealous of Diana's popularity. Questionable then, questionable now imo. I just think Charles is a bit more rugged than all of that. IMO.

I do think there are dynastic concerns and the monarchy as family and national business (in a mythic, national psyche way) governs all planning. In this case, William's apparent desire to stay in the background suits the needs for dynastic purposes.
  #1264  
Old 11-02-2014, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
She most definitely is and I'm sure she keeps right on top of everything that concerns the monarchy and the Firm and all those that are involved in and around it.
I think that is a hope but she is aging and the reality may be that she has delegated to Charles more and more. We cannot know for certain. We never will know, but as time passes it is more likely Charles.

Your loyalty is very charming, though.

Quote:
We've all heard of The Way Ahead committee. They meet twice a year and consists of members of the royal family and their top advisers. I'm sure at these meetings they toss out what ifs and generally get each person's ideas and perspectives and by the end of the meeting, they pretty much have it all planned out how its going to be. Sometimes with plans far reaching into the future.
That is what was put about at one time but it appears The Way Ahead Committee is no more. I would suspect that means Charles has been handed the bulk of the reins at this point. But that's my surmise only.

Quote:
It is not because William and Kate do not wish to be full time working royals for the Firm at this time or even pull more engagements or take on more charities and patronages, it is because it has been decided that they are not needed this time at a higher level.
Just wondering how you can be so certain what William and Catherine wish? Especially as you yourself say the following just a few posts later -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
We don't know William personally or interact with him so its not surprising that different people see different things in him. All we can do is sit back, drink a cup of tea and watch what happens next.
Exactly so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
A couple of posters have mentioned The Way Ahead Group. According to Robert Hardman in his book "Our Queen" (published 2011' pg 273), this has been discontinued.
Can we trust this to be factual? It makes sense to me, especially if responsibility has shifted to Charles more and more, but is it so?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I agree 100% and William's statement says it all:

"And fighting them off, or balancing the two of them, has proven quite difficult.” It screams RELUCTANCY all over.
Yes. He has always come across as the reluctant prince. It's part of who he is, methinks. Just like other monarchs have been shy and dealt with it, so it will be with William. He is what he is.

It is fortunate that as circumstances are now he is the third of three significant royal couples, almost a surfeit of a good thing. It appears he can be allowed to stay low, though staying low for too long will indeed look odd to the casual observer.

I have next to zero interest in the charity work which I view as a 'calling' (or else one is professional about it and makes it work for one) and so I do not fault them for not jumping into that. It's the lack of a social whirl I don't understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I am increasingly of the opinion that William and Kate won't step up as full-time royals until Charles is the King, or Regent, and William thus the heir apparent, or as good as.
I think that, too.

Quote:
I suspect that that is the opinion of the Way Ahead Group.
So you think that group still exists, Iluvbertie?

Quote:
That could mean another 10 - 15 years before William and Kate have to take on the sort of role that Charles and Camilla currently do. They will be in their mid-late 40s by then of course.
A bit too long. They need to find a comfortable niche they can flourish in. I am keen to see them take up the social mantle. I have an ulterior motive: gowns and jewels and pretty people on red carpets. What fun!

Quote:
Harry, will be even longer - not until he has left the army - and he has indicated that will be at the end of a full career - so in another 25 - 30 years.
If none of them take up the glittering social whirl it will be a pretty dull 25-30 years in Britain. Except for babies.
  #1265  
Old 11-02-2014, 01:04 AM
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The Way Ahead Group as a formal setup has been disbanded but the group still meets and discusses things and how to progress the monarchy further.

I don't see that having people in their 30s makes all that much difference to the few glittering events that the British do anyway - State Visits - 2 inwards per year, State Opening of Parliament and that is really all there is where the jewels are out. There is 'no glittering social whirl' in Britain more for the royals.

The Diplomatic event that Kate attended last year rarely sees photos published so again we don't see what they are wearing.
  #1266  
Old 11-02-2014, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The Way Ahead Group as a formal setup has been disbanded but the group still meets and discusses things and how to progress the monarchy further.
Okay, so that is cleared up.

Quote:
I don't see that having people in their 30s makes all that much difference to the few glittering events that the British do anyway - State Visits - 2 inwards per year, State Opening of Parliament and that is really all there is where the jewels are out. There is 'no glittering social whirl' in Britain more for the royals.
I go by the old books I inherited from my mother. There seems to have been a very different social life in the 50's and 60's around royalty, that got taken up again with Charles and Diana once they married in the 80's. But maybe that is a faulty impression? Just seems they could be going out more about town, showing up at a play here and there, the opera, the ballet, the symphony, trolling the art galleries in various garb. Wouldn't that be fun?

In fact I could see Harry and a Cressida (type) doing that. I have high hopes.

Quote:
The Diplomatic event that Kate attended last year rarely sees photos published so again we don't see what they are wearing.
Very annoying.
  #1267  
Old 11-02-2014, 01:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
I have an ulterior motive: gowns and jewels and pretty people on red carpets. What fun! :.

I think you may be confusing the Royals with the Kardashians.




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  #1268  
Old 11-02-2014, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
Okay, so that is cleared up.



I go by the old books I inherited from my mother. There seems to have been a very different social life in the 50's and 60's around royalty, that got taken up again with Charles and Diana once they married in the 80's. But maybe that is a faulty impression? Just seems they could be going out more about town, showing up at a play here and there, the opera, the ballet, the symphony, trolling the art galleries in various garb. Wouldn't that be fun?

In fact I could see Harry and a Cressida (type) doing that. I have high hopes.



Very annoying.
The majestic beauty and glamour died out for the British royals in the early 90's and they have tried to water it all down ever since for some odd reason. It may come back once Charles is on the throne though. He's old school.

William and Catherine pretty much live in their own bubble and world. Their social life is pretty much only with their friends and is all behind closed doors. The younger royals don't seem all that interested in plays, galas and the opera. Back in the day, members of the royal family were always going to those events.
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  #1269  
Old 11-02-2014, 01:06 AM
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William and Kate having events related to their charities at the State Apartments in KP is not going to break any budget.

It will not require much time or effort on their part.

William and Kate do not have to go foreign tours until they are Duke & Duchess of Cornwall but they still can visit cities within the U.K. and hold events in KP.
  #1270  
Old 11-02-2014, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
I really think that is unlikely.. His Grandmother, and Father will have imbued in him a sense of duty that will enable him to see the risks [both to himself, his dynasty and his country] of such a selfish strategy..
On this matter I completely agree with Roslyn - let's not forget the other parent who was there front and center during all of his formative year, and her influence on him.
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  #1271  
Old 11-02-2014, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
William and Kate having events related to their charities at the State Apartments in KP is not going to break any budget.

It will not require much time or effort on their part.

William and Kate do not have to go foreign tours until they are Duke & Duchess of Cornwall but they still can visit cities within the U.K. and hold events in KP.
I really don't know why they don't hold events in the State Apartments at Kensington Palace. It's their official base, so you would think they would be doing that by now.

They have gone on official foreign tours but they don't do many region or city tours. At least I don't recall so.
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  #1272  
Old 11-02-2014, 02:22 AM
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[QUOTE=Lady Nimue;1716329]Just wondering how you can be so certain what William and Catherine wish? Especially as you yourself say the following just a few posts later

The reason I made that statement in regards to William and Kate and having the decision made for them on how much they work for the Firm is because, to me, the Firm is a family run organization and at this time I don't see W&K having the final decision on things left up to them. I'm sure they are able to express their wishes and concerns but in the long run, I would think that the Chairman of the Board makes the final decisions.

Of course all we can do is speculate and give our impressions and opinions on how things work as we're in no way fully aware of the behind the scenes workings.
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  #1273  
Old 11-02-2014, 02:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I really don't know why they don't hold events in the State Apartments at Kensington Palace. It's their official base, so you would think they would be doing that by now.

They have gone on official foreign tours but they don't do many region or city tours. At least I don't recall so.
My thought on this is that their official residence is Apt. 1A. The State Apartments probably are booked for events far in advance and the proceeds from these could be part of the revenues that Kensington Palace brings for various expenses.
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  #1274  
Old 11-02-2014, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
The majestic beauty and glamour died out for the British royals in the early 90's and they have tried to water it all down ever since for some odd reason. It may come back once Charles is on the throne though. He's old school.
You may be right. I am aware that Charles entertains at Clarence House on a regular basis. Is it weekly? I know he has house parties and the 'weekends' at Highgrove. From what I gather it's a good mix of all types of people, with pretty lively conversation and good fun. That is always hidden from view. I just wish we were seeing more 'grand events' as i recall from my growing up. Yes, it was with Charles and Diana.

Quote:
William and Catherine pretty much live in their own bubble and world. Their social life is pretty much only with their friends and is all behind closed doors. The younger royals don't seem all that interested in plays, galas and the opera. Back in the day, members of the royal family were always going to those events.
It's pretty hard to figure out where and how they live. They don't really let any light in. The result is it looks pretty dowdy and boring with no expressed interest in the arts, performing and otherwise. I can bet they would enliven London's night life if they started attending plays and parties. Why be royal if you can't command the social stage, set the tone and pace of the scene.
  #1275  
Old 11-02-2014, 03:37 AM
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There has been a severe recession in Britain which is why few royals go to galas etc any more. Red carpet events yes, Beatrice and Eugenie are often seen at those.

In the 1980's and 90's Diana often wore a tiara and evenng gown to ballet premieres etc. Those days seem to be gone, but I agree Charles and Camilla are likely to bring them back to a certain extent. Charles loves the opera and ballet.
Kate and William don't. We will have to wait and see who Harry marries. It may be someone who likes the arts.
  #1276  
Old 11-02-2014, 05:29 AM
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The decision to stop these events was made in the early 1990s when the royal were on the nose. Charles was front and centre of that decision process as it was the Way Ahead Group that made the decision - believing that these sorts of events weren't the way to go so I don't think there will be a return anytime soon.

As for the State Apartments at KP being used - remember these are open to the public most days of the year which is a major source of revenue for the palace so not that easy and they have to reimburse the Palace for lost revenue (just as The Queen had to do for the wedding - all the days of lost revenue for the days that they had to close it to prepare for the wedding - whether one or two or more doesn't matter - The Queen had to reimburse the Abbey.) If it had been a State Occasion - as Charles and Diana's had been then there would have been no cost but for a private event such as William's wedding the Abbey charges.
  #1277  
Old 11-02-2014, 08:51 AM
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The Duke of Cambridge: What Now for William? Future Duties, Roles & Responsib...

Of the top of my head, I can think of two charity events done at KP. The 100 Women in Hedge dinner last year that was right after George's christening and last year's Centerpoint gala with Bon Jovi and Taylor Swift. The state areas of KP are the control of the Historical Royal Palaces charity which also run the Tower and Hampton Court. The state areas can be rented out to the public.

William and Kate appear to be home bodies. They would rather have a home cooked meal, give George a bath and put him to bed and watch Downton Abbey than hit the party circuit.

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  #1278  
Old 11-02-2014, 04:33 PM
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I read somewhere (wish I could remember where & when) that Charles had on several occasions taken Catherine to the opera & ballet (obviously not publicized). So, apparently Catherine enjoys both. I guess William doesn't or was otherwise occupied.
  #1279  
Old 11-02-2014, 04:56 PM
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Prince Philip regularly has luncheons or dinners at BP or Windsor in support of his charities.
Sophie regularly has meetings with organizations or charities in BP.
I know that BP is not KP but I am sure that Sophie’s and Prince Philip’s meetings & dinners do not require the same level of time & resources as State Dinners.

I am aware that Windsor and BP are not opened to the public as often as the KP State Apartments.

In Chicago, the museums hold receptions, dinners and parties during the evening. They do not close the museum but start setting up while the museum is open and patrons are viewing the exhibits.

I know KP is different from American museums but I’m sure that William and Kate can have meetings with organizations, luncheons, dinners, cocktail parties in the public areas of KP during the afternoon or evening without requiring too much effort.

They can hold an evening dinner party on the lawn. Dinner by candlelight in the KP gardens. Or have a behind the scene tour of KP in support of a charity. Or an evening tour of the KP State Apartments for charity. Or a dinner in the Orangery. Or a cocktail party on the long walk to the Orangery.

KP sits on a large piece of property and William and Kate can use a large portion of this property without disturbing residents or patrons. They just need to open up their imagination.
  #1280  
Old 11-02-2014, 05:13 PM
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BP and Windsor; SJP and Clarence House are all used by all members of the BRF for conferences, receptions, dinners, lunches, teas and even breakfasts.

They use the public rooms in those buildings. In the case of CH, its the ground floor rooms.

The Cambridges ve live in a private apartment. KP public access rooms are within the main building run by HRP. To use these rooms they would need to be hired, as they have been in the past by 100 Women HedgeFund Managers and other charities. It is not for W&K to use their imagination. They have NO say in the access or management of KP. All they can do is hire it.
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