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  #121  
Old 07-19-2017, 01:16 PM
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True, but the difference now is that George has reached the age, where he has become aware of himself in regards to his surroundings. Especially if the surroundings pay an extraordinary (in a child's eyes) attention to him.

What I want to point out is that it's balancing act. And such a trip should preferably be a positive experience for a child, rather than a scary and overwhelming thing.
If that means George and Charlotte should leave the plane later with their nannies, so be it.
If the children happens to be in the mood for meeting other people, fine, let them join their parents.
If the children prefer to goof around in the background, sniffing flowers as we have seen the Swedish children do, so be it.
As long as it is on the children's terms at this stage. Once they get more used to it, then they can better understand and accept that "now it's time to say hello and smile".

I like to look at cute children as much as everyone else, but I'm less keen on looking at children who are uncomfortable with the situation, and that is something all royal families has to address, not just the BRF.
A big experiment is going on these years among the royal families, in regards to how to train their children to be in the public eye - considering that the children are different.
I think W&K are doing the right thing in exposing their children to the public early, but perhaps at smaller events initially, then gradually building up to bigger (more "adult") events.

But let's get it into perspective, while Daily Mail would no doubt revel in it, George has not thrown a tantrum. He has not been wailing his head off. He has not stepped on the feet on the Polish PM. Nor has his parents and nannies had to run after him on the runway. He just been uneasy.
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  #122  
Old 07-19-2017, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by soapstar View Post
Charlotte and George have been on these type of trips before (New Zealand, Australia and let's not forget that Canada was just last year). Not to mention they've experienced huge crowds (Trooping for instance). So I'm not seeing how they're too young for this visit.

George just seems like a shy kid.




I don't see why they shouldn't have taken them. It's not like George and Charlotte are disrupting or taking attention away from any of the events. We only see them getting on and off the plane.

That is actually precisely the point as Muhler explained above. On a Canadian or Australian tour, it would be comparatively easier to have events for the whole family, or organize a parallel program for the kids while their parents do something else. On a diplomatic mission to Germany, on the other hand, they feel "out of place" and that is why we barely get to see them. It is an unnecessary stress on the kids as it is unfriendly to them and gets in the way of the official program, It also puts unreasonable demands on the hosts in terms of forcing them to accommodate the special needs of the kids (keep in mind that, unlike the Canadians, the Germans are not "loyal subjects" hosting their future King !)
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  #123  
Old 07-19-2017, 01:27 PM
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They are only getting on and off a plane. George was shy on his arrival in Canada. Didn't want to shake Trudeaus hand.

So the Commonwealth theory doesn't make much sense to me. George is just a naturally shy little boy, nothing more and nothing less.
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  #124  
Old 07-19-2017, 01:39 PM
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Going on trips like this with Mummy and Daddy becomes a family thing even if the kids are, for the most part, in the care of the nanny when the parents are busy with diplomatic events. They're all reunited at night with Mummy probably telling them stories about the places she and Daddy went to.

This not only gets the kids a bit familiar with just exactly what Mummy and Daddy do when they go away somewhere to "work" but they also get a good sense of the attention their parents receive just as they do when disembarking from an airplane. George may be naturally a bit on the shy side but its kind of cute that Charlotte has already had some "princess" lessons and has learned the graceful art of the curtsy already. Bit by bit, they're coming into an understanding of just who they are.

Once school starts, its more than likely that George and Charlotte will remain home with Nanny Maria so as not to disrupt their schedule but they'll have a good general idea just what Mummy and Daddy are getting up to when they're gone. Kids are remarkable astute. When George was still quite little, I remember the tale that Kate had told him Daddy was in in China so George went over and opened the china cabinet looking for him. Too cute eh? Its a good thing that the kids do have a good working knowledge of just what Mummy and Daddy do when they're not home.
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  #125  
Old 07-19-2017, 02:27 PM
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Well, at least the kids are with their parents, instead of being left at home for months on end, as in the past.
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  #126  
Old 07-19-2017, 02:29 PM
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Read more: William and Kate hold talks with Angela Merkel in Berlin - BBC News
Quote:
The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge have held discussions with German Chancellor Angela Merkel as they continue their five-day tour of Poland and Germany.

The royal couple met Mrs Merkel at the chancellery in Berlin on the first day of a three-day visit to the country.

During a private lunch they were expected to discuss European politics, global issues and volunteer work.

The duke and duchess then visited the Brandenburg Gate and the Berlin Holocaust Memorial.
32 min german video of the walkabout at Brandenburger Tor:
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  #127  
Old 07-19-2017, 02:41 PM
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[QUOTE=Muhler;2004265] True, but the difference now is that George has reached the age, where he has become aware of himself in regards to his surroundings. Especially if the surroundings pay an extraordinary (in a child's eyes) attention to him.

What I want to point out is that it's balancing act. And such a trip should preferably be a positive experience for a child, rather than a scary and overwhelming thing.
If that means George and Charlotte should leave the plane later with their nannies, so be it.
If the children happens to be in the mood for meeting other people, fine, let them join their parents.
If the children prefer to goof around in the background, sniffing flowers as we have seen the Swedish children do, so be it.
As long as it is on the children's terms at this stage. Once they get more used to it, then they can better understand and accept that "now it's time to say hello and smile".

I like to look at cute children as much as everyone else, but I'm less keen on looking at children who are uncomfortable with the situation, and that is something all royal families has to address, not just the BRF.
A big experiment is going on these years among the royal families, in regards to how to train their children to be in the public eye - considering that the children are different.
I think W&K are doing the right thing in exposing their children to the public early, but perhaps at smaller events initially, then gradually building up to bigger (more "adult") events.

But let's get it into perspective, while Daily Mail would no doubt revel in it, George has not thrown a tantrum. He has not been wailing his head off. He has not stepped on the feet on the Polish PM. Nor has his parents and nannies had to run after him on the runway. He just been uneasy.[/]

I think it's debatable whether George and Charlotte should have come on the trip - if their parents wanted them there and provided the requisite child care I don't see what the trouble is. But I don't buy the argument that they shouldn't be there because George may have been temporarily uneasy with the situation. He'll become more comfortable when these sorts of situations have gone from seeming strange to being familiar and routine. By definition, the only way they're going to become familiar and routine is by doing more of them. And if he starts doing more of them at ten or fifteen or eighteen they'll likely never be as second nature to him as if he's gradually introduced to them now.
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  #128  
Old 07-19-2017, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
That is actually precisely the point as Muhler explained above. On a Canadian or Australian tour, it would be comparatively easier to have events for the whole family, or organize a parallel program for the kids while their parents do something else. On a diplomatic mission to Germany, on the other hand, they feel "out of place" and that is why we barely get to see them. It is an unnecessary stress on the kids as it is unfriendly to them and gets in the way of the official program, It also puts unreasonable demands on the hosts in terms of forcing them to accommodate the special needs of the kids (keep in mind that, unlike the Canadians, the Germans are not "loyal subjects" hosting their future King !)
Why do they need to plan an event for the whole family and what special accommodations do the kids really need? We have no idea if the kids feel "out of place". I imagine they're perfectly happy playing with their nanny during the day and being with their parents when the day's activities are done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
True, but the difference now is that George has reached the age, where he has become aware of himself in regards to his surroundings. Especially if the surroundings pay an extraordinary (in a child's eyes) attention to him.

What I want to point out is that it's balancing act. And such a trip should preferably be a positive experience for a child, rather than a scary and overwhelming thing.
If that means George and Charlotte should leave the plane later with their nannies, so be it.
If the children happens to be in the mood for meeting other people, fine, let them join their parents.
If the children prefer to goof around in the background, sniffing flowers as we have seen the Swedish children do, so be it.
As long as it is on the children's terms at this stage. Once they get more used to it, then they can better understand and accept that "now it's time to say hello and smile".

I like to look at cute children as much as everyone else, but I'm less keen on looking at children who are uncomfortable with the situation, and that is something all royal families has to address, not just the BRF.
A big experiment is going on these years among the royal families, in regards to how to train their children to be in the public eye - considering that the children are different.
I think W&K are doing the right thing in exposing their children to the public early, but perhaps at smaller events initially, then gradually building up to bigger (more "adult") events.

But let's get it into perspective, while Daily Mail would no doubt revel in it, George has not thrown a tantrum. He has not been wailing his head off. He has not stepped on the feet on the Polish PM. Nor has his parents and nannies had to run after him on the runway. He just been uneasy.

I agree that it's a balancing act, but I think Kate and William are handling it well. George seems shy, so whether he is at a big event or small event, he's going to feel uncomfortable. And for all purposes, these airport meet and greets are small events. There are really only a handful of people there when they disembark/board the planes.

I'm sure William and Kate have put much thought into how these trips impact their children and will only do what they feel is best for them. For all we know, George could have a hard time being separated from them for a week, so they thought it was best to bring him along.

This trip is no different than the one they did back in September, so it's just confusing to see people act like this is George and Charlotte's first big trip.

Thanks for posting that video, Royal Norway. Kate and William have gotten quite a welcome in Poland and Germany. There have been huge crowds out to see them.
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  #129  
Old 07-19-2017, 03:01 PM
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They weren't exposed to a lot of people in Canada really. The garden party was a limited attendance event and they had a parent with them at all times. The arrival was a tarmac arrival like we are seeing on this tour. The departure in Canada had people at a distance. However we saw George get out of the car and start 2 hand waving. He even shook the GG hand. The kid likes planes so he rather get on the plane then stand around while Mummy and Daddy talk to grown ups. A receiving line is something he going to do for the rest of his life.
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  #130  
Old 07-19-2017, 03:06 PM
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I think the pics are adorable. A gallery from Getty

The Royal tour of Germany begins Day three of The Cambridges' offical visit to Poland and Germany Photo Album | Getty Images
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  #131  
Old 07-19-2017, 03:10 PM
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It's hard to believe that a 4 or 5 minute stint on the tarmac with both parents present could be particularly traumatic. All kids have to be somewhere they'd rather not be from time to time. This is no different.
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  #132  
Old 07-19-2017, 03:31 PM
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From the garden party tonight

Belga Image

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...ty-Berlin.html
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  #133  
Old 07-19-2017, 03:36 PM
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In response to several posts.

No, it's not the first time the children have joined W&K, but it's the first time we've seen George visibly uneasy with the situations as well as shy.
And that IMO is because he has grown older. He's now much more aware of his surroundings and the attention.
Charlotte, and other royal children her age, are pretty undisturbed by the situation. As long as a parent is around that's what is most important to her.
She will however also reach George's stage and perhaps she will be more shy and uncomfortable, perhaps less.

And yes, George and Charlotte, just like all other royal children, must learn to be in the public gaze. IMO that should be on the terms of the individual child, always on the child's terms.
Without comparing them to other royal children, or caving in to what the public want or what we want.
Some children may need more time, before coming out, or need a more secure environment in order to become adjusted.

Some children, like Estelle of Sweden, have been very much at ease with the public gaze from day one. That may change once she learns to read however...
Other children have played the royal duties into them. Where they are given a role and have fun and try things, while the press happens to snap away.
Others have been almost completely sheltered, like the Dutch trio, while still appearing at ease when they are out.
And one or two might need a little wack in the back of the head and learn how to behave...

My point is: I like to look at Charlotte and George. The more the better. Hurrah! But I will hate looking at them feeling uneasy, because they are thrust into a situation they are not ready for yet.
There are plenty of stories of the current royals who absolutely hated being in the public eye! Most of them because they IMO were not properly prepared.

Who knows? Maybe W&K will reconsider and change or cut down the way George (in this case) is on the job for the BRF.
Or perhaps they got it right and in a year we will see George behave like he's never done anything else but posing for the photographers and shaking hands with everyone.
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  #134  
Old 07-19-2017, 03:39 PM
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The Duke and Duchess at Bellevue castle

PPE Agency

Visit to the “Street children & mental health by the Robert Enke Foundation” in Berlin.

PPE Agency

Visit to the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin and with German Chancellor Angela Merkel in the Chancellery in Berlin

http://ppe-agency.com/show.php?start...-2017%20Berlin
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  #135  
Old 07-19-2017, 04:14 PM
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I thought it was very clever and thoughtful for Germany's representatives to have the mini bouquet for Charlotte and it was actually quite adorable to see. It takes me back to my childhood when I was always collecting flowers into bouquets from my Grandmother's gardens.
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  #136  
Old 07-19-2017, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
True, but the difference now is that George has reached the age, where he has become aware of himself in regards to his surroundings. Especially if the surroundings pay an extraordinary (in a child's eyes) attention to him.

What I want to point out is that it's balancing act. And such a trip should preferably be a positive experience for a child, rather than a scary and overwhelming thing.
If that means George and Charlotte should leave the plane later with their nannies, so be it.
If the children happens to be in the mood for meeting other people, fine, let them join their parents.
If the children prefer to goof around in the background, sniffing flowers as we have seen the Swedish children do, so be it.
As long as it is on the children's terms at this stage. Once they get more used to it, then they can better understand and accept that "now it's time to say hello and smile".

I like to look at cute children as much as everyone else, but I'm less keen on looking at children who are uncomfortable with the situation, and that is something all royal families has to address, not just the BRF.
A big experiment is going on these years among the royal families, in regards to how to train their children to be in the public eye - considering that the children are different.
I think W&K are doing the right thing in exposing their children to the public early, but perhaps at smaller events initially, then gradually building up to bigger (more "adult") events.

But let's get it into perspective, while Daily Mail would no doubt revel in it, George has not thrown a tantrum. He has not been wailing his head off. He has not stepped on the feet on the Polish PM. Nor has his parents and nannies had to run after him on the runway. He just been uneasy.[/]

I think it's debatable whether George and Charlotte should have come on the trip - if their parents wanted them there and provided the requisite child care I don't see what the trouble is. But I don't buy the argument that they shouldn't be there because George may have been temporarily uneasy with the situation. He'll become more comfortable when these sorts of situations have gone from seeming strange to being familiar and routine. By definition, the only way they're going to become familiar and routine is by doing more of them. And if he starts doing more of them at ten or fifteen or eighteen they'll likely never be as second nature to him as if he's gradually introduced to them now.
I don't think we have any parameter for comparison in this case as no other royal couple AFAIK has taken their under-five children on an official diplomatic mission to a foreign country, not even to the best of my knowledge Victoria and Daniel, who get so much praise in this forum for teaching their children to feel comfortable in public.

I must say that taking the children along is probably something W&k discussed with the Foreign Office and the Royal Court before the trip and they must have agreed to it. Nonetheless, it still adds to the constant criticism that W&K have trouble separating their family life from their official duties unlike other royal couples.
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  #137  
Old 07-19-2017, 05:04 PM
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It was great to see George and Charlotte again today. Little Charlotte is so adorable and quite a charming character! Her delight over the bouquet was really cute to watch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acdc1 View Post
I've noticed that. They need to give him a break, he's a shy 4-year-old who is not used to the attention yet and probably isn't quite old enough to understand why he has to do these sort of things. It also doesn't help that the Daily Mail is pointing out that Charlotte seems to be easier and more outgoing than her brother. I know that George has no clue of what they're saying, but I think it may already be setting up their "media personalities" to contrast each other: George as shy and difficult, Charlotte as friendly and easy. We all know that the way the media portrays them can stick around for a while, and it may be hard for him to overcome it as he gets older.
I agree. We are allowed to share our opinions on the children, but as long as we do so in a respectful manner - which is something the Daily Fail haven't done. The "can we go now, mummy?" headlines all the time when he is seen bother me - he's just a child; and shouldn't be mocked like this. Of course, it's fine to comment differing opinions politely about George's character, but, as I said before, so as long as it's polite. George and Charlotte are still very young.
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  #138  
Old 07-19-2017, 05:53 PM
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The BBC article I posted in post 127, but updated and completely changed - read more:
William and Kate visit Berlin's Holocaust memorial - BBC News
Quote:
The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge have visited Berlin's Holocaust memorial to pay tribute to the millions of Jewish people who died.

Prince William and Catherine saw the Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe, which represents a graveyard.

One survivor told them about his time at Auschwitz, where his parents were killed, and recalled the smell of burning bodies.

The couple are on a five-day tour of Poland and Germany with their children.

After looking around an underground museum at the memorial, the royal couple learned about some of the stories of the six million Jewish people killed during the Holocaust.

The duke and duchess then met a survivor of the Auschwitz concentration camp. Leon Schwarzbaum, 96, told them what life was like inside the camp.

At the age of 21, he worked as a runner for the camp commander.
Read more: Brexit won't divide our bond, Prince William tells Germany - ITV News
Quote:
Prince William has said Brexit will not weaken the bond between Britain and Germany as he made a visit to Berlin.

The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge received an extremely warm reception as they arrived in Berlin with their two children.

The couple enjoyed a private audience with German leader Angela Merkel at the outset of their three-day visit.

It is one of a series of European visits for the family this year that are widely seen as an attempt to use the royals as part of a Brexit 'soft diplomacy' charm offensive.
Video:
Continuing their trip to Berlin, William and Kate attended a garden party hosted at the British Ambassadorial Residence, without Prince George and Princess Charlotte:
Home - ITNSource News

A speech by The Duke of Cambridge at The Queen's Birthday Garden Party in Berlin: https://www.royal.uk/speech-duke-cam...n-party-berlin
Quote:
I should like to finish with a message that my grandmother The Queen has sent to you all for this evening, and which she asked me to read to you:

Prince Philip and I send our warmest good wishes to all of you gathered for this special Garden Party, on the occasion of The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge's official visit to Germany.

We have fond memories of our five State Visits to Germany, from our first in 1965 to our most recent in 2015. Over the course of those fifty years, British-German relations have thrived, allowing us to face the challenges and embrace the opportunities of the 21st century together.

I am delighted that The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge will experience the beauty of this country and the warmth of its people when they visit Berlin, Hamburg and Heidelberg.

I hope you all have a most enjoyable evening.

- Elizabeth R
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  #139  
Old 07-19-2017, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by sndral View Post
I thought it was very clever and thoughtful for Germany's representatives to have the mini bouquet for Charlotte and it was actually quite adorable to see. It takes me back to my childhood when I was always collecting flowers into bouquets from my Grandmother's gardens.
Indeed. I'm sure it was a genuinely thoughtful gesture but whoever came up with the idea also obviously understands 'soft diplomacy' and all the optics that go with it very well.
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  #140  
Old 07-20-2017, 03:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY View Post
Read more: Brexit won't divide our bond, Prince William tells Germany - ITV News

A speech by The Duke of Cambridge at The Queen's Birthday Garden Party in Berlin: https://www.royal.uk/speech-duke-cam...n-party-berlin
Thanks, Royal Norway.
Finally the essence of the whole trip is covered. Brexit.
I should imagine a visit to France would be very high on the agenda.
Probably Belgium as well, while visiting the EU-top at the same time.

Merkel and Macron are the decisive national players in this respect.
A visit by a nice little young family is better suited for the purpose than a visit by Harry alone, - unless he marries within the next six months or so and his wife give birth to a three year old almost at once.
And while Charles and Camilla carry more political weight, their public appeal in the rest of Europe is less than that of W&K.
QEII can't be used right now IMO, that's political overkill. The state visits will come after Brexit is final, whatever the outcome is. - The worse the outcome, the sooner the BRF will tour the commonwealth (and as many countries as possible) as well as USA and China with as high ranking members of the BRF as possible.
The better the outcome, the more visits to EU-countries.
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