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  #641  
Old 07-02-2015, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Isabella View Post
I don't think you're attacking her maternity leave, I just think maybe you don't understand it. As hernameispekka put it, it's not a matter of "she can" - that's just not what maternity leave is.
I don't know. The announcements just threw me off, that's all! I think the palace officials have to make sure that the events don't seem to be so cherry-picked.
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  #642  
Old 07-02-2015, 04:38 PM
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What if she is cherry picking?

Let's be honest what is maternity leave?

It is time for a woman to recuperate from giving birth before returning to work.

Some women return to work within days of giving birth, others a few weeks, in the U.S. it is usually 6 weeks. In some countries it is up to a year.

Some women decide not to work after having children or to return to work part time.

Catherine is probably deciding which events she will attend.

She attended The Trooping of Colours but not Ascot.
She is attending Wimbledon but not the Battle of Britain.
Or maybe she will attend the Battle of Britain. (Depending on how she feels.)

It is could simply be that she/the children do not like to be separated.

It could also be that her pre-pregnancy work clothes do not fit.

Or it could be...
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  #643  
Old 07-02-2015, 07:56 PM
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In the Express there is an explanation: "However, an RAF spokesman said: “The reason she is not there is that all of the members of the Royal Family on the balcony are honorary air commodores and she isn’t one.”"

Make sense. Charles and Camilla aren't going to be there, neither. It would be more of an issue, IMO, if the 1st in line aren't there over the wife of the 2nd in line.

Duke and Duchess of Cambridge are set to go to Wimbledon quarter-finals | Royal | News | Daily Express
  #644  
Old 07-02-2015, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Macrobug View Post
In the Express there is an explanation: "However, an RAF spokesman said: “The reason she is not there is that all of the members of the Royal Family on the balcony are honorary air commodores and she isn’t one.”"

Make sense. Charles and Camilla aren't going to be there, neither. It would be more of an issue, IMO, if the 1st in line aren't there over the wife of the 2nd in line.

Duke and Duchess of Cambridge are set to go to Wimbledon quarter-finals | Royal | News | Daily Express
Charles and Camilla are based in Wales that week for their annual Wales visit.
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  #645  
Old 07-02-2015, 08:16 PM
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Forgot about that! But still, there is a reason for Kate not being there. And it is a good one (not that someone on maternity needs a reason)
  #646  
Old 07-02-2015, 11:29 PM
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Okay, I understand now. Catherine isn't attending because she's not yet an honorary air commodore. Tell me something. It's all in the arrangement, so that makes sense.
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  #647  
Old 07-03-2015, 12:50 AM
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And according to reports Prince Phillip is the one who decided who should be there. As I've maintained for awhile now Catherine very much follows the path laid out for her by the firm. Despite this there is non stop criticism from some quarters about her failure to make more appearances and this is a perfect example of that hostility towards her. She's not appearing because she wasn't invited She can't exactly crash the balcony party sans invite.
Catherine makes appearances when her husband's family ask her to. When she is Queen consort then I expect she'll be able to appear when and where she likes, but as long as the Queen is alive and then King Charles III is on the throne Catherine's personal wishes will be subordinate to the reigning monarch's. I don't get why Catherine takes so much heat about not appearing more often when it's not even up to her.
  #648  
Old 07-03-2015, 01:11 AM
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The critics are just playing at being obtuse. They know she is a subordinate who follows the directives of HM, Charles and William.

The real reason she gets heat is: 1. She's a woman. 2. She's middle-class. 3.She choose marriage and children over a high-powered career. Faux-feminists can't stand housewives, true feminists fight for the right of choice.
  #649  
Old 07-03-2015, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by sndral View Post
And according to reports Prince Phillip is the one who decided who should be there. As I've maintained for awhile now Catherine very much follows the path laid out for her by the firm. Despite this there is non stop criticism from some quarters about her failure to make more appearances and this is a perfect example of that hostility towards her. She's not appearing because she wasn't invited She can't exactly crash the balcony party sans invite.
Catherine makes appearances when her husband's family ask her to. When she is Queen consort then I expect she'll be able to appear when and where she likes, but as long as the Queen is alive and then King Charles III is on the throne Catherine's personal wishes will be subordinate to the reigning monarch's. I don't get why Catherine takes so much heat about not appearing more often when it's not even up to her.
Yeah, I think a lot of people don't really understand that she's not the one ultimately calling the shots about her role. That's not to say she doesn't have some input into what she does, but if there's an event she needs to be at, that would certainly be made known to her. If the family felt she was doing something wrong with regard to her role, it would be pointed out. The various members of the royal family don't operate autonomously; their schedules and patronages, etc., are coordinated. Probably there are a lot of people who don't realize that, or don't find it a convenient answer. It rather gets in the way of how some want to portray Kate.

It seems to me that Kate gets a lot of unnecessary criticism about her role thrown her way, and it really surprises me that it's carried over into the time set aside for her maternity leave.
  #650  
Old 07-03-2015, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
What if she is cherry picking?

Let's be honest what is maternity leave?

It is time for a woman to recuperate from giving birth before returning to work.

Some women return to work within days of giving birth, others a few weeks, in the U.S. it is usually 6 weeks. In some countries it is up to a year.

Some women decide not to work after having children or to return to work part time.

Catherine is probably deciding which events she will attend.

She attended The Trooping of Colours but not Ascot.
She is attending Wimbledon but not the Battle of Britain.
Or maybe she will attend the Battle of Britain. (Depending on how she feels.)

It is could simply be that she/the children do not like to be separated.

It could also be that her pre-pregnancy work clothes do not fit.

Or it could be...
... that a scheduled postpartum doctor visit happens to coincide with the day she's going to Wimbledon.

It could be a million reasons and reasons we'll never know.
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  #651  
Old 07-03-2015, 02:16 AM
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The confusion came in over the announcements, also it wasn't clear early on that Prince Philip arranged only for the Honorary Air Commodores to watch the flypast.

I think Catherine is doing fine in her role as William's wife and as a senior royal. There are times where I think her roles and duties do lack a bit of substance, clarity or relevance though. I'd like to see her have a more firm role.
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  #652  
Old 07-03-2015, 03:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sndral View Post
And according to reports Prince Phillip is the one who decided who should be there. As I've maintained for awhile now Catherine very much follows the path laid out for her by the firm. Despite this there is non stop criticism from some quarters about her failure to make more appearances and this is a perfect example of that hostility towards her. She's not appearing because she wasn't invited She can't exactly crash the balcony party sans invite.
Catherine makes appearances when her husband's family ask her to. When she is Queen consort then I expect she'll be able to appear when and where she likes, but as long as the Queen is alive and then King Charles III is on the throne Catherine's personal wishes will be subordinate to the reigning monarch's. I don't get why Catherine takes so much heat about not appearing more often when it's not even up to her.
An excellent post and summary of how monarchies typically work. Those at the top make the decisions and issue the orders. Those below them follow those orders. Phillip isn't the monarch but he is for all purposes the patriarch of the Windsor family. IMHO it is a sign of respect to him and his position that his children, grand-children and their spouses appear to be happy to follow his wishes in this manner.
  #653  
Old 07-03-2015, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by miss whirley View Post
The critics are just playing at being obtuse. They know she is a subordinate who follows the directives of HM, Charles and William.

The real reason she gets heat is: 1. She's a woman. 2. She's middle-class. 3.She choose marriage and children over a high-powered career. Faux-feminists can't stand housewives, true feminists fight for the right of choice.
Whilst I heartedly agree with your premise for the reason(s) she gets heat and certainly believe that faux-feminists are arrogant and uninformed for the most part, I think we need to look at each case on it's merits.

OK, everyone can agree that Catherine will not be on the Balcony, neither will her husband and in-laws. They are not what the occasion is all about and, consequently, were not invited. Philip's occasion, Philip's rules, end of story.

I read an article in an American magazine about how the cruel and heartless Queen was forcing her to leave her baby, foregoing her maternity leave to attend The Trooping of the Colour. This is obviously nonsense but on some level it is actually true. She is on Maternity Leave and she was at the TOC and I do believe that the occasion is classified as "work". But the way it was being spun you wouldn't have been wrong in thinking that Catherine was pulling HM's Carriage rather than riding in one behind her.

Let's keep to the facts. Catherine's workload is light, intentionally so, and I am sure there is not a female member of the BRF who wouldn't argue that being a mother is one of the most important jobs going and you need to make the most of the first years.

However, having Nanny's, etc. allows for limited appearances (no one is going to argue that riding in a carriage is slave labour) as opposed to no appearances. So, Catherine was "invited" to TOC (which is also marking HM birthday). She got a free pass on Royal Ascot and went to watch William play polo.

Being the devoted tennis fan she is, it is hardly surprising she's going to Wimbledon since she's been a regular there long before she married. Nothing has changed. She's not dodging work but just enjoying a kid-free day. And, I am betting she is not the only woman doing exactly that at the tennis.

It's almost as if some people view Maternity Leave as Sick Leave where, having called in sick and getting snapped at the tennis is a sacking offence.

Choosing to be a full-time mother and attending the odd engagement are not mutually exclusive. I am sure that HM wants to ensure that every royal mum gets the chance she didn't. But that does not mean Catherine withdraws totally from the public view for however long her maternity leave is.
  • I agree she gets heat because she is a woman. A very high profile woman at that.
  • I do not believe the perception that she is middle class is a valid factor. That particular niggle has been around since she married.
  • I do not believe her choice of marriage and children factors in. She married into what will not only become a full-time job but has zero retirement. Not much to envy there.
  • Whilst I agree with your assertion that faux-feminists can't stand housewives and true feminists fight for the right of choice, I do not believe that applies in this particular case either. Whatever else Catherine is, she is not a housewife! In the UK she is unique, she cannot be held as a standard for anything as she has no peers.
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  #654  
Old 07-03-2015, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Whilst I heartedly agree with your premise for the reason(s) she gets heat and certainly believe that faux-feminists are arrogant and uninformed for the most part, I think we need to look at each case on it's merits.

OK, everyone can agree that Catherine will not be on the Balcony, neither will her husband and in-laws. They are not what the occasion is all about and, consequently, were not invited. Philip's occasion, Philip's rules, end of story.

I read an article in an American magazine about how the cruel and heartless Queen was forcing her to leave her baby, foregoing her maternity leave to attend The Trooping of the Colour. This is obviously nonsense but on some level it is actually true. She is on Maternity Leave and she was at the TOC and I do believe that the occasion is classified as "work". But the way it was being spun you wouldn't have been wrong in thinking that Catherine was pulling HM's Carriage rather than riding in one behind her.

Let's keep to the facts. Catherine's workload is light, intentionally so, and I am sure there is not a female member of the BRF who wouldn't argue that being a mother is one of the most important jobs going and you need to make the most of the first years.

However, having Nanny's, etc. allows for limited appearances (no one is going to argue that riding in a carriage is slave labour) as opposed to no appearances. So, Catherine was "invited" to TOC (which is also marking HM birthday). She got a free pass on Royal Ascot and went to watch William play polo.

Being the devoted tennis fan she is, it is hardly surprising she's going to Wimbledon since she's been a regular there long before she married. Nothing has changed. She's not dodging work but just enjoying a kid-free day. And, I am betting she is not the only woman doing exactly that at the tennis.

It's almost as if some people view Maternity Leave as Sick Leave where, having called in sick and getting snapped at the tennis is a sacking offence.

Choosing to be a full-time mother and attending the odd engagement are not mutually exclusive. I am sure that HM wants to ensure that every royal mum gets the chance she didn't. But that does not mean Catherine withdraws totally from the public view for however long her maternity leave is.
  • I agree she gets heat because she is a woman. A very high profile woman at that.
  • I do not believe the perception that she is middle class is a valid factor. That particular niggle has been around since she married.
  • I do not believe her choice of marriage and children factors in. She married into what will not only become a full-time job but has zero retirement. Not much to envy there.
  • Whilst I agree with your assertion that faux-feminists can't stand housewives and true feminists fight for the right of choice, I do not believe that applies in this particular case either. Whatever else Catherine is, she is not a housewife! In the UK she is unique, she cannot be held as a standard for anything as she has no peers.
A very nice, well balanced and clever analysis! Thank you!
  #655  
Old 07-03-2015, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Whilst I heartedly agree with your premise for the reason(s) she gets heat and certainly believe that faux-feminists are arrogant and uninformed for the most part, I think we need to look at each case on it's merits.

OK, everyone can agree that Catherine will not be on the Balcony, neither will her husband and in-laws. They are not what the occasion is all about and, consequently, were not invited. Philip's occasion, Philip's rules, end of story.

I read an article in an American magazine about how the cruel and heartless Queen was forcing her to leave her baby, foregoing her maternity leave to attend The Trooping of the Colour. This is obviously nonsense but on some level it is actually true. She is on Maternity Leave and she was at the TOC and I do believe that the occasion is classified as "work". But the way it was being spun you wouldn't have been wrong in thinking that Catherine was pulling HM's Carriage rather than riding in one behind her.

Let's keep to the facts. Catherine's workload is light, intentionally so, and I am sure there is not a female member of the BRF who wouldn't argue that being a mother is one of the most important jobs going and you need to make the most of the first years.

However, having Nanny's, etc. allows for limited appearances (no one is going to argue that riding in a carriage is slave labour) as opposed to no appearances. So, Catherine was "invited" to TOC (which is also marking HM birthday). She got a free pass on Royal Ascot and went to watch William play polo.

Being the devoted tennis fan she is, it is hardly surprising she's going to Wimbledon since she's been a regular there long before she married. Nothing has changed. She's not dodging work but just enjoying a kid-free day. And, I am betting she is not the only woman doing exactly that at the tennis.

It's almost as if some people view Maternity Leave as Sick Leave where, having called in sick and getting snapped at the tennis is a sacking offence.

Choosing to be a full-time mother and attending the odd engagement are not mutually exclusive. I am sure that HM wants to ensure that every royal mum gets the chance she didn't. But that does not mean Catherine withdraws totally from the public view for however long her maternity leave is.
  • I agree she gets heat because she is a woman. A very high profile woman at that.
  • I do not believe the perception that she is middle class is a valid factor. That particular niggle has been around since she married.
  • I do not believe her choice of marriage and children factors in. She married into what will not only become a full-time job but has zero retirement. Not much to envy there.
  • Whilst I agree with your assertion that faux-feminists can't stand housewives and true feminists fight for the right of choice, I do not believe that applies in this particular case either. Whatever else Catherine is, she is not a housewife! In the UK she is unique, she cannot be held as a standard for anything as she has no peers.
Excellent post. I think the maternity leave vs. sick leave distinction is quite important. I was rather perplexed when, after Kate appeared at Trooping, some people seemed to take that as a sign that she was back to work, and were surprised when she wasn't at other events. There was some, "well, if she can go to Trooping and to polo, why can't she also come to x, y, and z?" To me, that seems more like treating it as sick leave.

Personally, knowing that she's got a two month old baby at home, I see any public appearance by Kate as the exception rather than the rule (be it something official like Trooping, or sitting and watching tennis). There are no rules to what one does during maternity leave. I see it as an adjustment period where, yes, the mother is looking after her child, but is also readjusting her own life to incorporate the fact that she has a new child (especially for those who, like Kate, are lucky enough to have a nanny. She gets a chance to get used to being away from the baby for short periods, and also gets a chance to relax).

Kate does have a unique position. She doesn't work a nine-to-five job. her role can be vague. But it strikes me as particularly strange that some people feel as if she should have to provide some sort of explanation (possibly in written form? With a permission slip from the Queen?) as to why she isn't attending specific events when she's obviously on maternity leave. I don't think most ordinary women would have people - including their bosses - expecting a day-by-day explanation of why they aren't at work if it's known that they have a two-month-old baby at home.
  #656  
Old 07-03-2015, 05:13 AM
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How long does maternity leave in Great Britain?
  #657  
Old 07-03-2015, 05:14 AM
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How long does maternity leave in Great Britain?
By law, the employer must keep your position open for a year. The period for which you are paid is less.
  #658  
Old 07-03-2015, 01:17 PM
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Thank you for the above analysis. It is so heartening to see well thought out posts about the RF. I am new here and have migrated over from other sites because of the negativity. It truly is lovely to see intelligent discussion done in a manner that is welcoming to differing opinions. I think I shall be happy here and hope I can measure up to the great discussions
  #659  
Old 07-03-2015, 03:12 PM
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Hope you decide to stay Macrobug. I understand what you are saying regarding the intelligent discussion and lack of negativity.
  #660  
Old 07-07-2015, 09:46 PM
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Duchess Kate Blog ‏@HRHDuchesskate 4h4 hours ago
We'll see The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge at Wimbledon tomorrow. British number one Andy Murray will compete in the quarterfinal. #royal
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