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  #401  
Old 06-18-2012, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
I agree, but I can see that some posters would have had a thriving career with the News of the World. Lucky for them there are still some tabs they can apply to and pursue their career in gossip.
The Sun on Sunday replaced the NOTW so there's still a wealth of opportunity in the British tabloid newspaper market.

I seem to remember having a very similar discussion recently, except in that case it was Charles and Camilla. The fact that Camilla was pictured not smiling at one point in Copenhagen or Oslo (can't remember which) was apparently proof that Charles and Camilla's marriage was on the rocks.

So now apparently both Charles and William's marriages are in difficulty. Presumably the only thing stopping someone saying Harry's marriage is in trouble is the fact that he's not actually married. His turn will come soon enough I suppose, when he and his wife are photographed standing a foot apart from each other or if Harry deigns to speak to someone other than his wife on a family occasion.
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  #402  
Old 06-18-2012, 12:18 PM
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I'm starting to think that the planetary alignment of Will's 30th birthday, his need to decide on his position with the RAF, the DOE's sudden illness (with the realization that his grandparents ARE 91 and 86), along with all of the hoopla surrounding the Jubilee, along with the media's constant interest in his wife, their marriage, her womb, have made him realize that life as he knows it will be quickly drawing to a close. Perhaps precipitously (I know it borders on heresy to suggest that his grandmother will not live to be as old as her own mother - but anything could happen to her at any time now, and his father is not a young man either). If he and Kate are happy as they are he must realize all of the changes looming. If there is an obvious reason for balled fists and somber looks, you need look no further. I feel sorry for him - I wouldn't want that change. If the photographs of the recent month reflect moodiness, I think you need look no further at all that this month means to this man.
Very well summarized the facts of William's snapshot in time and the pressures that he is facing. To interpret his apparent unhappiness in public of late to his marriage is a stretch.
As the product of a famously unhappy couple (BTW Diana kept a smile on her face in public until she decided not to) and someone who lost a parent in his earlier teens, William latched onto a seemingly stable life partner in his later teens, something that two friends of mine who lost parents at the same age did. Kate was no child bride and I have faith in the couple.

This is not the only thread in which posters attempt to be "mind-readers" of pap shots. It may be entertaining for them but ultimately is a form of gossip, imo
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  #403  
Old 06-18-2012, 12:50 PM
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I'm starting to think that the planetary alignment of Will's 30th birthday, his need to decide on his position with the RAF, the DOE's sudden illness (with the realization that his grandparents ARE 91 and 86), along with all of the hoopla surrounding the Jubilee, along with the media's constant interest in his wife, their marriage, her womb, have made him realize that life as he knows it will be quickly drawing to a close. Perhaps precipitously (I know it borders on heresy to suggest that his grandmother will not live to be as old as her own mother - but anything could happen to her at any time now, and his father is not a young man either). If he and Kate are happy as they are he must realize all of the changes looming. If there is an obvious reason for balled fists and somber looks, you need look no further. I feel sorry for him - I wouldn't want that change. If the photographs of the recent month reflect moodiness, I think you need look no further at all that this month means to this man.
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  #404  
Old 06-18-2012, 01:33 PM
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Whew! Some of you get nasty fast. You can disagree with someone but why start making it personal?

And what do you think everyone is doing on TRF? Surmising. What do you think you are doing when you paint the rosy picture? Surmising.

Surmising - another word for rumor?

Think this way - and if you don't - then I'm offended. What is that? Do you think if you batter someone into silence then you have 'won'?

I value conversation - I do not want to come back onto a thread and find myself dodging pings. How unpleasant is that? It appears that certain conversations cannot take place publicly but must stay 'hidden' in pm's.

I stand by what I observe - Kate is showing disquiet around William in public. It's not about a few photos or one event. She appears relaxed with everyone else. That's it. Take it or leave it. It's one person's observation - and now for sure no one else will come in to agree for fear of being mauled.

Happy Trails!
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  #405  
Old 06-18-2012, 01:56 PM
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Whew! Some of you get nasty fast. You can disagree with someone but why start making it personal?

And what do you think everyone is doing on TRF? Surmising. What do you think you are doing when you paint the rosy picture? Surmising.

Surmising - another word for rumor?

Think this way - and if you don't - then I'm offended. What is that? Do you think if you batter someone into silence then you have 'won'?

I value conversation - I do not want to come back onto a thread and find myself dodging pings. How unpleasant is that? It appears that certain conversations cannot take place publicly but must stay 'hidden' in pm's.

I stand by what I observe - Kate is showing disquiet around William in public. It's not about a few photos or one event. She appears relaxed with everyone else. That's it. Take it or leave it. It's one person's observation - and now for sure no one else will come in to agree for fear of being mauled.

Happy Trails!
This is puzzling - many of us don't merely surmise - we provide links and photos. Some have just asked you to show links to photos or articles to support your observations.
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  #406  
Old 06-18-2012, 02:00 PM
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I myself don't have a problem with positive and negative viewpoints. I think it makes things interesting and lively. What bothers me is when we become so emotionally invested in a viewpoint, either positive or negative, that we cannot engage in rational discussion.

I don't think Tyger is wrong about all of the photographs of the couple at the last few royal events. I noticed the same thing, and I am a big fan of the couple, for a variety of reasons. But I don't think it signals ominous clouds on the horizon. I think the most likely explanation is everything on William's mind in the last month; and this will naturally spill over into the marriage, at least for the short term. When my husband goes through turmoil, I tend to stay away from him too!

Again, at the risk of repeating myself over and over, I think Will is seeing a period of his life ending. There comes a point in adulthood where a person realizes that there aren't enough decades to do everything you want to do. Will is most likely facing this younger than most because of the position he's in. I would think he and Kate were hoping that they would be allowed to continue on as they were at least until all of the children they hope to have are well into their own childhoods. I'll bet (and I'm gossiping here too) that they wanted to raise young children in Wales, well out of the spotlight. I don't think that this can be. I feel quite sorry for them at this point.
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  #407  
Old 06-18-2012, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by CanRoyal View Post
This is puzzling - many of us don't merely surmise - we provide links and photos. Some have just asked you to show links to photos or articles to support your observations.
No, its a bit more than that - but I'm a wuss about this sort of stuff. I am not a street fighter at all. I've explained why I can't but I've gone ahead and shown what I can with this event.

This is also my own ghosties coming into play. I know what it is like to be harangued by a partner. I know how powerful parent modes get duplicated in the next generation. I see Kate's disquiet and my heart sinks. In fact, it was only as I posted on this thread that I started to realize what it is we may/might be seeing. Initially it was just a feeling that William is being a jerk about his royal duties and might be insufferable, his smiling demeanor (like his mother's, as someone mentioned) notwithstanding. So I threw it out there. Having it be suggested that I should be a tabloid journalist - on top of being told I am stirring the pot - well, hence my reaction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Peach View Post
When my husband goes through turmoil, I tend to stay away from him too!


I just wish he wouldn't do it in public! When they do it in public, oh dear!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Peach View Post
I don't think Tyger is wrong about all of the photographs of the couple at the last few royal events. I noticed the same thing, and I am a big fan of the couple, for a variety of reasons. But I don't think it signals ominous clouds on the horizon.
Thank you.

Regarding the first time I saw it - it was very soon after the wedding, in fact - at a summer wedding in 2011, or a derby race. Maybe it was in the fall. William and Kate and Harry were walking and William was talking intensely to Kate (Harry was smiling). Her expression was somber - like she was enduring something. At the time I just thought she had perhaps over-stepped and he was letting her know. It was also a video, I think. That's all I can recall and I can't spend the time finding it - because partly it is that I don't know how to do the searches.

It's something I've been noticing over the past year with no alarm bells going off - just recently - and then, as I said, as I posted on this thread (not pre-determined) it started to gel as a pattern I was seeing. I even went into a series of photos of the balcony scene clueless that I would see evidence of what I was talking about - but there it was again. Evidence is given in photos of happiness and harmony - but a whole sequence showing disquiet cannot be interpreted as disquiet? How does that work - tell me again?
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  #408  
Old 06-18-2012, 02:18 PM
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maybe we all should remember, that we see the world through our eyes, and our experiences shape what we see.

there is no 'reality' out there - only our own interpretations of what we think we see / hear / feel
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  #409  
Old 06-18-2012, 02:20 PM
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I agree with Pricess Peach; William is under a lot of pressure right now to decide his immediate future, and whichever way he jumps he will be in for massive criticism.

I think any tension he is experiencing is more to do with that than with his marriage.
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  #410  
Old 06-18-2012, 02:34 PM
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I agree with Pricess Peach; William is under a lot of pressure right now to decide his immediate future, and whichever way he jumps he will be in for massive criticism.

I think any tension he is experiencing is more to do with that than with his marriage.
Are you starting rumors?

Thing is, what's the guy's problem? Why have his upset for the world to see? Whatever it is, Kate is having to deal with him. I have never indicated that I thought the marriage is in trouble btw. I have just floated that William may not be the sweetie in his marriage that everyone is projecting onto him - from what I was seeing.
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  #411  
Old 06-18-2012, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanRoyal
This is puzzling - many of us don't merely surmise - we provide links and photos. Some have just asked you to show links to photos or articles to support your observations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
No, its a bit more than that - but I'm a wuss about this sort of stuff. I am not a street fighter at all. I've explained why I can't but I've gone ahead and shown what I can with this event...
Ok, that's fine.

It's just that some of us might want to 'see' what you have seen and that can happen by providing links to photos and videos and articles etc. I'm certainly open to the idea that William might be undergoing some career/future role/personal stress, but I don't think (if he is, indeed, under any stress at the moment) that it's related to Kate or his marriage.

As an example, I posted links previously to the following photos William and Kate walking in the park:
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/320775/WILLIAM-KATE-MATCH.jpg
William and Kate walking on the beach:
http://belieber.files.wordpress.com/...-spaniel-3.jpg
William and Kate at his cousin's June 9th wedding (several photos in this article of what the Daily Mail calls 'adoring William'):
Kate Middleton looks demure as she and William attend wedding of Princess Diana's niece | Mail Online

and to those I add the last photo in this post, taken yesterday: Duchess Kate: Updated: Kate and Lupo Watch William Play Polo

these links and photos - all taken when he was not doing royal duties - indicate to me that William's marriage to Kate is fine.
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  #412  
Old 06-18-2012, 03:02 PM
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We could all sit here for hours picking single photos from a minuscule moment and then use them to make hugely sweeping statements about the subjects' personal lives. But doing so is both unfair and misleading because you can't tell much of anything from a photograph.

I mean, who ever would've thought that the couple in this picture were actually pretty unhappy with each other?

Forgive the rest of us who feel it's frankly disingenuous to pick a few photos to try and prove something that none of us can possibly know - what actually goes on in these people's lives.
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  #413  
Old 06-18-2012, 03:02 PM
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Seems like a lot of dime store psychobabel going on here, intrepretting photos and videos (which are not provided for all to see). Apparently it is OK for some posters to engage in fostering rumours but when a tabloid does exactly the same thing we condemn them for it.
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  #414  
Old 06-18-2012, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by EIIR View Post
We could all sit here for hours picking single photos from a minuscule moment and then use them to make hugely sweeping statements about the subjects' personal lives. But doing so is both unfair and misleading because you can't tell much of anything from a photograph.

I mean, who ever would've thought that the couple in this picture were actually pretty unhappy with each other?

Forgive the rest of us who feel it's frankly disingenuous to pick a few photos to try and prove something that none of us can possibly know - what actually goes on in these people's lives.
I don't think that Tyger has said she thinks there is anything wrong between them as a couple. I thought she did to start with, but now I (think, hope) understand. William is seemingly preoccupied, not always "engaged" and this is noticiable (to Tyger) on formal occasions. And Catherine is trying to be positive and supportive and he's not responding.

If he is worrying over something (like his future - no small thing) then I think his behaviour is understandable.

Tyger - hope you don't mind me "speaking" on your behalf
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  #415  
Old 06-18-2012, 03:22 PM
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Tyger appears to be saying that Kate is discomfited in William's presence at the moment and having to turn to others for attention and comfort, and that William is clearly upset with her and has shown this publicly. She also suggests that this has been clear on more than one occasion, implying that it's not just them having a little tiff with one another like all couples have but something bigger and deeper.

How can that be anything other than a marriage that's in some sort of difficulty?
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  #416  
Old 06-18-2012, 03:37 PM
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We're in a circular argument so I'm not going to continue. Good luck with the discussion
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  #417  
Old 06-18-2012, 03:38 PM
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The more I think about it, its very possible that William is just plain worn out. There have been so many events going on in the past month that perhaps the back and forth between London and Wales for work is stressing both William and Kate out. I remember just recently reading that to attend the event in Nottingham I think it was, they traveled down to London as soon as he got off work, attended the event and then had to return to Wales for William to go to work. Its almost like working two jobs and I do think that both jobs are important to the Cambridges and they'd like to be able to give 100% to both.

All of the BRF have been out in full force more than usual this year and will continue to do so because not only with it being the Jubilee year, they have the Olympics coming up next month. I wouldn't be surprised if HM and the DoE are crossing out the days in red until they can head to Balmoral for a much needed rest and relaxation.

To be honest, I really enjoy reading all the different observations that people have. As we are speculating, there's no right nor wrong perspective but we're all just putting into words, what we glean from information that is presented. If we all thought alike, what a totally boring world this would be eh?
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  #418  
Old 06-18-2012, 04:42 PM
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Interesting thread. I don't follow William and Kate all that much, they bore me lol. However the one thing that tryly annoys me about William is his always claiming he wants a normal life. Sorry he's not going to get that, and he just needs to man up and carry on.

Strangely enough I actually think Kate gets that more than Willam.
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  #419  
Old 06-18-2012, 04:57 PM
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Seems there are some potential tabloid writers in here. I can't help but to think the mods are going to have a field day with this thread.
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  #420  
Old 06-18-2012, 06:20 PM
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Ok, that's fine.

It's just that some of us might want to 'see' what you have seen and that can happen by providing links to photos and videos and articles etc. I'm certainly open to the idea that William might be undergoing some career/future role/personal stress, but I don't think (if he is, indeed, under any stress at the moment) that it's related to Kate or his marriage.

As an example, I posted links previously to the following photos William and Kate walking in the park:
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/320775/WILLIAM-KATE-MATCH.jpg
William and Kate walking on the beach:
http://belieber.files.wordpress.com/...-spaniel-3.jpg
William and Kate at his cousin's June 9th wedding (several photos in this article of what the Daily Mail calls 'adoring William'):
Kate Middleton looks demure as she and William attend wedding of Princess Diana's niece | Mail Online

and to those I add the last photo in this post, taken yesterday: Duchess Kate: Updated: Kate and Lupo Watch William Play Polo

these links and photos - all taken when he was not doing royal duties - indicate to me that William's marriage to Kate is fine.
Firstly, this all began because I was agreeing with a poster that William and Kate do not present as an affectionate couple. The comment the poster made was: it's IMHO quite noticeable that the Cambridge couple is the one which shows the least signs of affection or even warm interaction in public. I agreed. They are friendly but as a couple into each other - the vibe isn't there for some people when they watch them (that's from someone who has pm'd me, too).

I then went further and indicated that I have been seeing evidence of William expressing displeasure to Kate in public, and whatever he was sharing seemed not to be making her happy - and then I was asked to give evidence of that. That's when I went into a series of photos supplied and came across the group of photos of William on the balcony being what appeared to be cross and Kate not at all happy. I wasn't even looking for them - so I showed them as an illustration of what I was talking about. I've done what was asked of me - supplied evidence, though I indicated that this could become a case of 'dueling photos'.

You supply the above photos as evidence of 'all is well'. Well, I put my hand on someone's back occasionally, too - even strangers as I am squiring them about, or trying to steer them in a particular direction - depends on what's happening. Doesn't of itself say anything. The other snaps are pleasant enough - except the park one, that one has always been a bit odd, I've never felt at ease when viewing those - but nothing about them is determinative except to say that they hold hands. I will quote myself: Evidence is given in photos of happiness and harmony - but a whole sequence showing disquiet cannot be interpreted as disquiet? How does that work - tell me again?

As someone posted the picture of Diana and Charles dancing happily - and yet they were having problems - well, my point is made. Exactly. One photo, one event does not a compote make. We can be deceived. So why should your interpretation of photos that all is well supercede my interpretation of other photos that all is not well?

I wasn't even looking for these pictures - had no idea they were even there - and this is what I found among a whole sequence of such pictures - these are only 3 out of several -

What is stopping William from placing his arm around Kate - like he did last year? He had no problem showing 'support' and affection last year - and posters here gushed at how nice it was to see William being protective and caring of Kate. The pictures I show above - and all the balcony pictures - from even both balcony events - does William ever reach out to Kate? Lay his hand even near her? What's up? Instead he stands there like his arms are in a body cast. Its just plain not affectionate what he is doing. But last year he seemed plenty able to be affectionate - both stood close, his arm around her - 'so sweet'. Remember that?

Contrary to what others may think or how others approach debate/argument - I very often do not know what I think until I say it. Ideas come to me as I go, off-the-cuff - and I have to admit that my views have expanded a bit in this conversation.

My point initially was that I agreed that they are not affectionate in public. Then I considered what I have been seeing here and there, and then I was made aware that there was a pattern starting from pretty far back in the year, and so I said: Fact is, William may not be the kind of man people are assuming he is - my hunch - based on what I see of him and hear from him. It won't be the first time a public image has diverged from the private reality.

I want to thank Daria_S for the added observations. Yes, he stood there on the balcony like in total disconnect: I saw a scowl on William's face and Catherine looking like she wanted to disappear was on the day of the Jubilee Pageant. [...] I noticed at Trooping the Colour is that William wasn't really engaging with anyone. He appeared to be somewhere else entirely, and when he was engaging, it was like he was responding to noise. Catherine looked rather stressed, and tired. I also thank Princess Peach: I don't think Tyger is wrong about all of the photographs of the couple at the last few royal events. I noticed the same thing, and I am a big fan of the couple, for a variety of reasons.

So what's going on? He's a public figure and by his age of 30 he should know the drill. If Camilla demonstrated anywhere near William's lack of positive presence at a public event - how much slack would anyone give her?

I floated that William was more like his Uncle Spencer - but maybe he's more like his Grandfather Phillip - maybe he's another Anne, giving everybody 'what for' up there on the balcony.

All this stuff about William being under pressure is as much projection, surmise, rumor, fabrication as anything I am saying. It's a level playing field here. The narrative I hear from everyone - and read respectfully - is as much a conjuring as mine if you would have it so. However, it hangs together - it could be so - though I have to say I do not find the Cambridge's work schedule overwhelming and certainly not tiring for 30 year olds. If 2 weeks of royal duties makes William sufficiently cranky that he is unable to maintain a pleasant demeanor in public, then we have a very interesting future to look forward to, I would say.

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Seems like a lot of dime store psychobabel going on here, intrepretting photos and videos (which are not provided for all to see). Apparently it is OK for some posters to engage in fostering rumours but when a tabloid does exactly the same thing we condemn them for it.
Psychobabel? If you think that then its all that. Every opinion you voice, too.

Fostering rumors? Can we then equally say that people are 'fostering rumors' that - take your pick - the marriage is happy-ever-after - or, William is a cupcake of a guy, or, whatever - as long as its in keeping with the prevailing (fan) narrative?

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I don't think that Tyger has said she thinks there is anything wrong between them as a couple. I thought she did to start with, but now I (think, hope) understand. William is seemingly preoccupied, not always "engaged" and this is noticiable (to Tyger) on formal occasions. And Catherine is trying to be positive and supportive and he's not responding.

If he is worrying over something (like his future - no small thing) then I think his behaviour is understandable.

Tyger - hope you don't mind me "speaking" on your behalf
I for sure don't mind, but just to clarify, though - close but not quite. I am seeing William being unpleasant to Kate in public - she is clearly disquieted in the photos. I see Kate as far more relaxed and at ease with other members of the BRF than with William in public sometimes. Does this mean there is a problem between them? Maybe not - but there is certainly something odd going on with William that he would be acting this way - and that's when I start thinking about his background.

I don't believe that failing to maintain a gentlemanly stance beside one's wife, in public - before the nation - is 'understandable'. He has a job up there on the balcony and he's not doing it except to be physically present. His attitude is disrespectful to 'his people' imo. He gets no pass from me and I'm not even one of his subjects.
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