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  #101  
Old 12-27-2010, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by candi8305 View Post
Bera, such an excellent post. I never really understood the press over in the UK...
She got the nickname because all she seemed to do was wait. The length of the relationship wasn't necessarily the troubling part it was that she was perceived to have done little else. She worked for Jigsaw, a company owned by a family friend, who admitted that her schedule had to be altered to fit her boyfriend's schedule. I don't know many people who have that option, then again I might not know the right people.

Then she started working for her family's business. They probably gave her special treatment because she was dating William.

I don't think she is the only one to blame. What does it say about William if he dictated her schedule? I also think that he proposed to her in the end so he must have found her behavior acceptable.

She knew that when she started dating William she was going to be judged on how she lived her life. Is that right? Well as the UK taxpayers might pay for her (pre-engagement) I do think it is their right to know who they pay for.

As they did not have much information on her they judged her on what they thought about her and her actions.

As much as people don't like the nickname I think it is important to understand how she got it as that plays in to how she will be judged in her upcoming role.
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  #102  
Old 12-27-2010, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by jemagre View Post
...Well as the UK taxpayers might pay for her (pre-engagement) I do think it is their right to know who they pay for...
Sorry .... I'm just NOT getting this. As an American I find the emphasis on the UK taxpayers a bit hilarious. As far as we know, she has been either self supporting OR supported by her parents (who are wealthy) either of which has nothing to do with the UK taxpayers. It might not be something that Brits "like" but they are NOT paying for it. This seemingly constant emphasis on taxpayer money seems mightily overblown to me.
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  #103  
Old 12-27-2010, 07:44 PM
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You are right. They pay gobs of money, which the government report as pennies for the privilage, they focus on this. The whole BRF live far above their subjects and the money either came from a time when they had total tax free money or some strange formula that was figured to keep the populace at bay. Either way it costs them all for the "pomp and circumstance".
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  #104  
Old 12-27-2010, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Princess of Durham View Post
Sorry .... I'm just NOT getting this. As an American I find the emphasis on the UK taxpayers a bit hilarious. As far as we know, she has been either self supporting OR supported by her parents (who are wealthy) either of which has nothing to do with the UK taxpayers. It might not be something that Brits "like" but they are NOT paying for it. This seemingly constant emphasis on taxpayer money seem mightily overblown to me.
I think we can all agree that yes her parents supported her. I don't think she could have afforded all of things she had without them. However, those ideas about how she got along pre-engagement goes to her work-ethic and some say since of character.

How would you advise that she be judged? I am curious. Do you think her work ethic should be ignored? Do you think she should have her "slate wiped clean?"

The UK taxpayers will one day pay for her so they have an opinion on her and the work that she does. Its not like the public doesn't think about the people the royals are with, especially the higher ranked ones. A member of the family could marry without public support but would that be wise? I would not think so. By the way, I am not advocating marrying just for the public.

A monarchy, or any form of government, would be hard-pressed to survive without public support.
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  #105  
Old 12-27-2010, 07:59 PM
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Trust me, as a British tax payer, there are far worse things my money is being spent on by the government than on any member of the Royal Family. I'd far rather fund the RF, even the so-called laziest members, than many of the things I'm also forced to fund through my government's policies/plans.
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  #106  
Old 12-27-2010, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jemagre View Post
The UK taxpayers will one day pay for her so they have an opinion on her and the work that she does. Its not like the public doesn't think about the people the royals are with, especially the higher ranked ones. A member of the family could marry without public support but would that be wise? I would not think so. By the way, I am not advocating marrying just for the public.
I am going to disagree here. I think the Royals - or someone - needs to start drawing a firm line between private and public lives, for the mental and emotional health of everyone, especially the children to come. I don't think 'the public' has this right of looking over the shoulder of choices like this. After all, William's parents entered an arranged marriage - all the boxes were checked - the public 'approved' - in the end, did it work? Did public approval get it right? I think in hindsight we know it was disastrous that the marriage was not a private arrangement with all that that implies.

In another era, William would likely have been married to Princess Madelaine of Sweden, or some similar Royal daughter. That was the era of approval and acceptability. That overarching constraint was present with the marriage of the Queen. It should have been dropped with Charles IMO.

The worst thing will be to see Catherine run-down.

I like what the Queen had - a seriously private life in the first years of her marriage, even after the birth of her son. Is it possible that such can be the case now? Or will the profit motive drive this couple as it has others?

Bottom line to me is that if people cannot have normal, healthy lives within the monarchy then it needs to change for their sakes. I think Charles will be making that change - its a hunch I have based on an interview I saw of him, something he said, or didn't say directly. For sure this tabloid atmosphere must be lethal to live within.
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  #107  
Old 12-27-2010, 08:10 PM
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The royals had a 'private' life until the late 1960s when a documentary about the family was made. It was only shown a couple of times in 1969 and the Queen had it pulled as she realised that it wasn't the right thing to do - they had let the 'daylight in on the magic' which earlier advisers had told them not to do. Having shown the private lives the public wanted more but they were able to pull it back until Diana came along and convinced Charles to go along with showing the world their lives when the boys were young. That was followed by the tell all stories from within the family of the 1990s. It is too late now to separate public from private. The public have come to believe they have a right to know about the private lives as well and it is too late to pull back - the technology and demand simply won't allow it.
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  #108  
Old 12-27-2010, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jemagre View Post
As much as people don't like the nickname I think it is important to understand how she got it
It was coined by third-rate journalists whose job is to fill space.

Unfortunately that space is not only found in the rags that employ them, but also in the heads of many of their readers.
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  #109  
Old 12-27-2010, 08:35 PM
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Someone mentioned that if Catherine had a career she would have to be giving it up in order to be Royal - I think that's what they said - it was a bit back.

Anyway, that reminded me - if I may tell a story - of a Presidential Candidate here in the US many years back whose wife was never on the campaign trail with him and only under considerable pressure agreed to be present in interviews with him. Reason: she was a practicing physician, and a very busy one as it turns out. When they did an interview one could tell she was a very decent and nice person - but totally not interested in this Public Relations stuff.

Its interesting that we continue to expect the woman to totally subsume to the man's position - and then fault her if she doesn't show initiative and uniqueness.

Not in a million years would I want to be a modern Royal of the British kind. I prefer all the tiltles and wealth and to circulate with one's own kind in absolute and total luxury - the masses be darned!
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  #110  
Old 12-28-2010, 01:14 AM
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Hey! I'm Gentry! Cool! Just thought I'd bring it to the general attention.

I'd heard about this - the late 60's documentary. I think I watched it, in fact, at the time. I've even lately been watching the documentaries on Charles and Diana that are now up on YouTube. Interesting stuff. Compelling.

So what does William do? He goes on as he was - and I think the best would be for Catherine to be by his side for the first year - though, Catherine has already been doing solo gigs for the Royal Family, correct? She's really been through almost a 'training' - to test her mettle perhaps, but also to let her know what life will be like. She's probably the most well-informed future bride of a Royal prince in a very, very long time.

I am guessing that the RF - and in particular Charles - is trying to get this as right as he can for his son. Charles has to be coaching William and Catherine must be being 'held'. I think this is going to be very healthy from the RF's position - its just the press that becomes the wild card.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The royals had a 'private' life until the late 1960s when a documentary about the family was made. It was only shown a couple of times in 1969 and the Queen had it pulled as she realised that it wasn't the right thing to do - they had let the 'daylight in on the magic' which earlier advisers had told them not to do. Having shown the private lives the public wanted more but they were able to pull it back until Diana came along and convinced Charles to go along with showing the world their lives when the boys were young. That was followed by the tell all stories from within the family of the 1990s. It is too late now to separate public from private. The public have come to believe they have a right to know about the private lives as well and it is too late to pull back - the technology and demand simply won't allow it.
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  #111  
Old 12-28-2010, 06:46 AM
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I would love to see Princess Catherine given official duties.
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  #112  
Old 12-28-2010, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Ukroyalist View Post
I would love to see Princess Catherine given official duties.

HRH Princess William of Wales will have official duties at some stage after the wedding. The question will be what, how many and how interesting they are for the public. There will also be questions asked if she isn't doing them reasonably early in the marriage as the British public and press, I don't think, are going to be prepared to let her sit in Wales and wait until William leaves the RAF before carrying out a significant number of duties.
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  #113  
Old 12-28-2010, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
HRH Princess William of Wales will have official duties at some stage after the wedding. The question will be what, how many and how interesting they are for the public. There will also be questions asked if she isn't doing them reasonably early in the marriage as the British public and press, I don't think, are going to be prepared to let her sit in Wales and wait until William leaves the RAF before carrying out a significant number of duties.
Oh come on, in the beginning all Royal duties will mean that she is a kind of puppet. It will take time for her to get to know the possibilities she has to bring herself into the process of charities. It was the same with Diana. She came, smiled, said some words and left. Nothing difficult with that. It is even known that Diana wasn't much interested in reading her briefings before she met the people so different from eg Princess Anne, who actually asks, even interrogates people of the charities, Diana just sailed through her first Royal duties. And was such a success because people were charmed by her. Catherine has the same charming personality, people who know her claim, so she will be picture perfect in her first Royal duties, I bet.

It will be interesting in the years to come to see how this young woman develops. If she will really work with charities or cultural institutions or if she simply will remain a private person being presented from time to time as a Right Royal Figurehead for others who do the actual job.

With Diana, her real work only started when she gave up her enormous amount of honorary patronages and started to really work for the four organizations who interested her most. Before she had mostly done "ribbon cutting" - certanly glamourous and beautiful to look at, but the work was done by others. Let's see what kind of Royal Catherine is. Look at Maxima, Mary etc... they all have projects and charities they really work for. They are not just turning up somewhere and smile. But you need time to fnd out where and what you can do to really make a difference.
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  #114  
Old 12-28-2010, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by jemagre View Post
I think we can all agree that yes her parents supported her. I don't think she could have afforded all of things she had without them. However, those ideas about how she got along pre-engagement goes to her work-ethic and some say since of character.

How would you advise that she be judged? I am curious. Do you think her work ethic should be ignored? Do you think she should have her "slate wiped clean?"

The UK taxpayers will one day pay for her so they have an opinion on her and the work that she does. Its not like the public doesn't think about the people the royals are with, especially the higher ranked ones. A member of the family could marry without public support but would that be wise? I would not think so. By the way, I am not advocating marrying just for the public.

A monarchy, or any form of government, would be hard-pressed to survive without public support.
I don't see that her character has anything to do with her job situation. I supervise a staff of 18 employees, most of which are in the 20-30 year old range. I can tell you from experience that the 20-30 year old are more focused on their personal lives than a career. They are in no way settled or mature and most have held multiple jobs since leaving University or College. In the 30-40 age range, you find people are more settled, more mature and have a better work ethic. The bottom line is that it has less to do with character and more to do with maturity and being more settle in their lives.

I think the expectations and criticism that has been leveled at Kate has been completely unfair until now. Once Kate marries William and finds her footing within the Royal Family, I think she will start to come into her own. Until then I think she deserves the benefit of the doubt and a bit of perspective.
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  #115  
Old 12-28-2010, 07:52 PM
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Some people like Kate and some don't. I don't think that a "charming" personality is enough to get by. We also have to consider that the majority of comments made on this board are by royalists. Therefore they will probably be more favorable to her and the family. Her nickname wasn't just given to her by journalists. If you read the comments posted after the articles some people thought she deserved the moniker.

While some don't consider her job requirements part of her character some will. As for her maturity level...If you are going to get married to anyone, let alone a member of the royal family, I hope you are mature before you take that step. It isn't like marrying into a normal family. She is marrying into a business that concerns the nation, even if they don't have any real power.

I personally care very little about her hair or her fashion sense, which is most of what the media is talking about. For her sake I hope she learns how to do her job, because sitting around at the RAF base isn't going to get her very far.

As for the royals private lives...If they cared so much about them then why do they have public weddings and other press oppurtunities? A public wedding isn't a requirement for becoming a member of the family. It is a PR decision made by the royals to sell their agenda of being the most capable group of people to represent their country. You can not use the media to promote your charities and then say you can't cover x, y, and z. Once you let the press in you can't let them out again.
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  #116  
Old 12-31-2010, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by jemagre View Post
Some people like Kate and some don't. I don't think that a "charming" personality is enough to get by. We also have to consider that the majority of comments made on this board are by royalists. Therefore they will probably be more favorable to her and the family. Her nickname wasn't just given to her by journalists. If you read the comments posted after the articles some people thought she deserved the moniker.

While some don't consider her job requirements part of her character some will. As for her maturity level...If you are going to get married to anyone, let alone a member of the royal family, I hope you are mature before you take that step. It isn't like marrying into a normal family. She is marrying into a business that concerns the nation, even if they don't have any real power.

I personally care very little about her hair or her fashion sense, which is most of what the media is talking about. For her sake I hope she learns how to do her job, because sitting around at the RAF base isn't going to get her very far.

As for the royals private lives...If they cared so much about them then why do they have public weddings and other press oppurtunities? A public wedding isn't a requirement for becoming a member of the family. It is a PR decision made by the royals to sell their agenda of being the most capable group of people to represent their country. You can not use the media to promote your charities and then say you can't cover x, y, and z. Once you let the press in you can't let them out again.
Personally I find the criticism a bit irrational and unfair considering when they met and the media attention she has had focused on her since she was at University. Other commoners that have married into Royal families did not meet their Royal spouse in University at a young age. They were already well into their 20's and 30's and working on building their careers or working in established careers, which they had to give up. Crown Princess Mary of Denmark had several jobs prior to meeting her future husband, as well as Princess Marie. Sophie was in her 30's when she met Prince Edward.

Kate's situation is very different from other Royal brides in that the early intense media focus on her before she even graduated would have made it impossible for her to work at a regular job without being vulnerable to the media prying into her professional life. It would be very easy to plant someone at the same company to spy on her and/or offer a substantial bribe to a co-worker for inside information. That would place her employer in an uncomfortable position. Few would want to risk that. Kate working for her family business certainly was the best option for her since it allowed flexibility, privacy and income away from the prying media.

As I have also already pointed out, many young people these days do jump from job to job for various reasons after graduating. Few settle into one position and stay with it directly after University or college. Those that do have specialized careers such as teaching, medical or legal professions. Kate has a Art History degree which is really non-specific in the professional world. Those with non-specific degrees means that most young people make non-specific career choices until they find their niche.

The difference between Kate and any other young person in their 20's is that everything she has done since graduating has been the focus of media and public scrutiny. She has had to step very carefully in her personal and professional life. I am sure William has been very supportive and has warned her away from choices that would have put her in a vulnerable position.

I think some perspective should be considered when criticizing Kate over her career in the relatively short time she has been out of school. She will find her footing within the RF and I have no doubt she will rise to every occasion if given the chance.
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  #117  
Old 12-31-2010, 01:24 PM
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I personally care very little about her hair or her fashion sense, which is most of what the media is talking about.
I'm totally into it. Its the only reason I watch.
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  #118  
Old 12-31-2010, 02:19 PM
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I personally care very little about her hair or her fashion sense, which is most of what the media is talking about.

Being an American who neither lives in a monarchy nor is part of a Commonwealth, the only interest I have in royals from around the world are on a purely superficial level -- what are they wearing, look at that pretty tiara/dress, isn't he handsome, oh their kids are adorable -- that sort of thing. If I lived in the UK, maybe my opinion would be different as Catherine would be representing my country, both there and abroad.
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  #119  
Old 12-31-2010, 07:55 PM
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Personally I find the criticism a bit irrational and unfair considering when they met and the media attention she has had focused on her since she was at University. Other commoners that have married into Royal families did not meet their Royal spouse in University at a young age. They were already well into their 20's and 30's and working on building their careers or working in established careers, which they had to give up. Crown Princess Mary of Denmark had several jobs prior to meeting her future husband, as well as Princess Marie. Sophie was in her 30's when she met Prince Edward.

Kate's situation is very different from other Royal brides in that the early intense media focus on her before she even graduated would have made it impossible for her to work at a regular job without being vulnerable to the media prying into her professional life. It would be very easy to plant someone at the same company to spy on her and/or offer a substantial bribe to a co-worker for inside information. That would place her employer in an uncomfortable position. Few would want to risk that. Kate working for her family business certainly was the best option for her since it allowed flexibility, privacy and income away from the prying media.

As I have also already pointed out, many young people these days do jump from job to job for various reasons after graduating. Few settle into one position and stay with it directly after University or college. Those that do have specialized careers such as teaching, medical or legal professions. Kate has a Art History degree which is really non-specific in the professional world. Those with non-specific degrees means that most young people make non-specific career choices until they find their niche.

The difference between Kate and any other young person in their 20's is that everything she has done since graduating has been the focus of media and public scrutiny. She has had to step very carefully in her personal and professional life. I am sure William has been very supportive and has warned her away from choices that would have put her in a vulnerable position.

I think some perspective should be considered when criticizing Kate over her career in the relatively short time she has been out of school. She will find her footing within the RF and I have no doubt she will rise to every occasion if given the chance.
I agree that to compare her to Mary and the rest doesn't work that is why I stick to just her.

As for her "career choices" sorry but being in your 20s doesn't excuse the lack of employment. As for the planting of the media I don't think they considered that an issue. After all while the media followed her; William and her stoked it to a degree, by inviting her to certain events like his garter ceremony and his graduations from the military. This created an increase in attention towards her they could have avoided by not having her there. Previous royal girlfriend never went to such events.

Her former employer at Jigsaw said that she quit because she had a "schedule she couldn't dictate." A clear reference to her relationship with William. She had options to get a job but they were not flexible with her relationship. No big surprise there for any working person. We schedule are private lives around our working lives, not the other way around. I agree her degree is non-specific. Therefore I criticize her lack of choices in general. I feel like her main goal in life was to make her relationship work and I wish she would just admit it. I would certainly respect her more for her honesty.

Also I criticize William as well. He was the one who dictated the schedule so what does that say about him? He also preferred a person who gave her "whole" life to him. It almost seems a little codependent. Then again they like it so...
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Old 12-31-2010, 08:01 PM
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Let's try to focus on what duties and roles Catherine will have AFTER the wedding.
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