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  #841  
Old 03-16-2012, 03:30 PM
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I personally believe they struck the right balance with Kate at this early stage easing her in rather than chucking her straight into the deep end. I really like how TRF have been such a support network for her.

It's great too see everyone working as a team for a change!
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  #842  
Old 03-16-2012, 03:45 PM
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Hasn't that been the plan since day 1? Let her and William take time to build their marriage, attend Williams engagements and then gradually take on engagements of her own and also take on new patronages after she has had time to research them and find what she is interested in? Seems much better than just tossing her in at the deep end to sink or swim which didn't seem to work out too well in the 1980s. There will also be more engagements with the Jubilee and with the Olympics and then the tour to Asia in the fall of this year.
She may be new and high profile, and people no doubt want to see more of her, but she is still just the wife of the Queens grandson, the heir to the heir, and likely has 5-10 years ahead of her before she is a senior royal. She has plenty of time to add patronages and undertake a heavier schedule of public engagements. Somewhere in that period of time they will likely have to fit a couple of children into the schedule as well.
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  #843  
Old 03-16-2012, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Baroness of Books View Post
Of course, my post was made with tongue firmly implanted in cheek, I thought it couldn't be more obvious and there's no implication that I'm unhappy with Kate. To explain the intent of my original post: my expectations of Kate don't quite reach the superhuman level where she's languishing on a pedestal; I feel she's conducting herself very well in her public role and I think it's a lot easier for people to sit in judgment expecting her to live up to their own expectations than to walk in her shoes and try doing what she does before worldwide scrutiny.

This certainly takes all the fun out of injecting some humor here when you have to explain it!

You misunderstood me. I hadn't even read your post before I posted. I was making the comment that from the time we found out she was dating William to the post before mine, meaning the most recent thing said about her, someone somewhere has not liked her. I was not saying that you in particular, did not like her.
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  #844  
Old 03-16-2012, 04:02 PM
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Thank you for your clarification, Sister Morphine.

And I always thought that was the original plan as well, to allow William and Kate to concentrate on their marriage while easing Kate into public life. This Jubilee year is certainly offering more opportunities in which the public will be seeing her, with last year's Canadian and LA visit under her belt, so it's not as if she's retired to the isolation of Anglesey never to be seen at all. To tell you the truth, it seems she's making more appearances than I thought she would given her new status in the family, thinking she'd be spending a few years "under the radar," so to speak. But I think she's progressing along with the game plan that the Queen and her advisors have implemented, and just because the public is clamoring to see more of her because of her appeal and popularity doesn't mean she'll be thrown out there but gradually eased into her role. I believe the RF really doesn't want a repeat of the past and is being extra sensitive in Kate's situation, and it seems to be working with the great job she's been doing at public engagements. Not bad at all, given that she was just an average girl with a middle-class background now catapulted into the position of a future Queen of England.
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  #845  
Old 03-16-2012, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
KittyAtlanta seems to be using the word "nothing" to say that Catherine has done nothing to deserve the high praise she seems to receive when attending engagements. In that sense, it is not wrong or untrue to say that, it's her opinion. I for one agree with KittyAtlanta that Catherine has really done nothing more than she is expected to.
For me it is two different things:
I'm with you in that Catherine has not done so much that the high praise she receives is well earned. But that's not her fault. She has done IMHO much more than I thought she would in this first year when her husband is still not a working Royal but has a job. But of course she is on a pedestral not through her own efforts but due to her marriage. But then - she has not yet fallen from it but done enough positive things to slowly earn the right to stand there.

And that is exactly what I find condescending in KittyAtlanta's opinion. People should in my book not be measured by other's expectation or by some dreamed-up ideal world but by the effort they make and can realistically make in their real life. And it is simply not true that Catherine does not do anything. She does and judging from what is known and is leaked she takes her role and the expectations of the British people serious.

I have in my active time guided a lot of young collegues in their first steps into our profession. And I always tried to install wishes and dreams in them and tried to get them to realise what they can do and they can succeed to. I have not tried to judge them by what they already could but by what they could eventually reach. And quite some of them hold high positions today, while I retired gracefully as soon as I could afford to...
It is the trust and the believe in them that makes people strong and that gives those around them the positive feeling that they can make it. Catherine gives this feeling to me. She makes me smile and she seems honest in her wish to serve her country and her new family, especially her grandmother-in-law who happens to be her souverain. And that is good news, isn't it?
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  #846  
Old 03-16-2012, 05:00 PM
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I have to agree. Catherine may not have the years of experience of being a royal but in the short time that she has been in that role she has I feel done an exceptional job even if it has only been a small one.The appearances she has made have not only shown that she is capable of handling this new role, but that she takes it all very seriously and truly cares about what she is doing. She is proving that she is ready to become a true working royal and not just a fashion diva even though we know that what she wears will always be in the spotlight. She makes people happy and in a time when there is so much sadness and fighting and death it is refreshing. :)
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  #847  
Old 03-16-2012, 07:21 PM
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She's been a member of the royal family for less than a year. Since William is not the heir to the throne yet, the opportunities she has to do work for or on behalf of the royal family is small. Also, William is in the middle of his military duties, so there's even less for her to do, outside of a few appearances here and there with more senior members.

When people say they are happy with her and proud of the work she's done, I don't think they're insinuating that in less than a year, she's eradicated cancer and cured AIDS. However, to hack it in the BRF is no easy feat, and to deal with the obtrusive paparazzi is even more commendable. She's picked charities and organizations that I think, more people should be focusing on, royal or otherwise, and I appreciate her even more for that - beyond just thinking she's an all-around decent human being.
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  #848  
Old 03-16-2012, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta View Post
Compared to the female entertainers we love to hate, Kate would be considered exemplary. However, she has yet to do anything that could be considered worthy of emulation, unless it was snagging a prince.

Yes, she's been working for the last couple of months on a part-time basis, but has not accomplished anything tangible.

Disagree with me if you like.
You are correct imo - and are being willfully misread.

What puzzles me is that she spent her Gap Year in Italy. I thought she'd be doing something with that - so much she could do - especially now as she lives with access to massive museum-like residences. She could be pursuing a 'career' in art that would be the envy of any with similar interests. Her in-law connections could open up all the Royal Houses of Europe and beyond. Man 'o Man - I'm salivating just thinking of that entre and what she could be doing with it!

Her father-in-law is a role model for how to pursue a career within the confines of a royal lifestyle. Prince Charles has successfully worked in the world having the luxury to pursue his interests - making money (creating a livelihood) into the bargain, too. If the British royal house were to be voted into non-existence tomorrow, Charles would have a life still standing and proceeding into the future. Its a remarkable achievement - and something his daughter-in-law would do well to consider: having a life defined outside of royal connections.

For whatever reasons she is not choosing to pursue a career. An intellectual passion does not seem to consume her - she is not a role model in that way. Instead, she is the role model for marrying well - and that is something - but not usually what one means when one says the phrase. She is a mature woman, too - in her 30's now. I doubt she will undertake a career at this juncture.
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  #849  
Old 03-16-2012, 10:00 PM
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You are correct imo - and are being willfully misread.

What puzzles me is that she spent her Gap Year in Italy. I thought she'd be doing something with that - so much she could do - especially now as she lives with access to massive museum-like residences. She could be pursuing a 'career' in art that would be the envy of any with similar interests. Her in-law connections could open up all the Royal Houses of Europe and beyond. Man 'o Man - I'm salivating just thinking of that entre and what she could be doing with it!

Her father-in-law is a role model for how to pursue a career within the confines of a royal lifestyle. Prince Charles has successfully worked in the world having the luxury to pursue his interests - making money (creating a livelihood) into the bargain, too. If the British royal house were to be voted into non-existence tomorrow, Charles would have a life still standing and proceeding into the future. Its a remarkable achievement - and something his daughter-in-law would do well to consider: having a life defined outside of royal connections.

For whatever reasons she is not choosing to pursue a career. An intellectual passion does not seem to consume her - she is not a role model in that way. Instead, she is the role model for marrying well - and that is something - but not usually what one means when one says the phrase. She is a mature woman, too - in her 30's now. I doubt she will undertake a career at this juncture.
Charles has successfully pursued many interests and done fantastic work with his Duchy Originals and with all of his charitable endeavors- and he's done a great job of defining himself within that context- but I must disagree. His entire life has been defined by his role in the royal family and not one thing he's ever done has been experienced outside of that framework. And that's not a negative thing- that's a fact of his life.

With Kate- what end goal do you see with a career for her? She's destined to be a working royal for the rest of her life, barring the monarchy ending (which doesn't look like it's in the cards anytime soon). What do you expect her to do, pursue a career that she'll just have to give up in five or seven or ten years? Right now, she's using her enthusiasm for the arts as the basis for a lot of her charitable endeavors, and she's tailoring her patronages and some of her visits to her own interests, and that's an appropriate way to go about launching the career she'll have for the rest of her life: working royal. That's actually a lot like what Charles has done- he used his royal role to pursue his own interests.

I mean, the Countess of Wessex is arguably a less central member of the Royal family than Kate as she and Edward will never be King and Queen, and it was a disaster when she tried to continue her career while working as a royal. I doubt the royal family wants that to happen with Kate.
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  #850  
Old 03-16-2012, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
Charles has successfully pursued many interests and done fantastic work with his Duchy Originals and with all of his charitable endeavors- and he's done a great job of defining himself within that context- but I must disagree. His entire life has been defined by his role in the royal family and not one thing he's ever done has been experienced outside of that framework. And that's not a negative thing- that's a fact of his life.

With Kate- what end goal do you see with a career for her? She's destined to be a working royal for the rest of her life, barring the monarchy ending (which doesn't look like it's in the cards anytime soon). What do you expect her to do, pursue a career that she'll just have to give up in five or seven or ten years? Right now, she's using her enthusiasm for the arts as the basis for a lot of her charitable endeavors, and she's tailoring her patronages and some of her visits to her own interests, and that's an appropriate way to go about launching the career she'll have for the rest of her life: working royal. That's actually a lot like what Charles has done- he used his royal role to pursue his own interests.

I mean, the Countess of Wessex is arguably a less central member of the Royal family than Kate as she and Edward will never be King and Queen, and it was a disaster when she tried to continue her career while working as a royal. I doubt the royal family wants that to happen with Kate.
Well, I mean 'career' in a different way than it would apply to the rest of us. If one has wealth and something of a 'job' - social obligations one must show up at - one doesn't have the same kind of career as one that defines one's life. However, there are historians and artists and writers aplenty in the ranks of royals. If one is intellectually curious in the least it would be hard not to find oneself exploring avenues of interest that eventually become one's own and after a lifetime can be looked at as an achievement.

I saw a documentary on Prince Philip - it becomes clear where Prince Charles got his inspiration from to be a good estate manager - and even with a man so clearly defined in the public eye as the Queen's consort - he has nonetheless a vivid private life of work and accomplishment behind him, albeit circumscribed. His son has taken it a step further.

I think we are mincing words when we speak of Charles' work and career outside of being royal. Yes his royal status defines him at all times - but he very definitely has a career and work outside of that defining world of royal obligations. I had a conversation with someone British about this and I am aware that because Charles didn't get university degrees in the areas he has studied on his own this somehow makes him less serious - and because he is royal that somehow by definition means he doesn't work. The truth is he does both - work and study and is a man to be considered and listened to because of that work and study. His actions speak for him. For some reason the British public view him as a lightweight and a dilettante - when he is very far from either if you look at the reality. I ascribe this to some odd reporting by the British press - who latch onto anyone's words that minimize Charles' accomplishments.

Kate could be studying and pursuing art in any number of ways in her private life, making a place for herself in the world. Yet from what you say it seems you feel Kate will be defined by public protocols - and that will be her life - that she has, indeed, found 'her place' in the world as the wife of William. Ouch! If so, how stifling, how impossible. Its a wonder that any woman would be willing to marry a British prince close to the throne with those expectations. I would hazard that if Kate believes that stuff then she - along with William - will hardly be the 'modernizing couple' for the monarchy.

Anyway, the point that I am making is that Kate could model a modern woman combining intellectual pursuits with social and family. She could. She may do that. Only the future will reveal that. It has not yet.
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  #851  
Old 03-16-2012, 11:19 PM
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Besides Catherines public engagements, I read that she had also begun her volunteer work with the scouts. That being one out of the spotlight. Also, her olympic role is not an official patronage, but a temperary role. Maybe those things don't make the court record, but they are still important.
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  #852  
Old 03-16-2012, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
She's been a member of the royal family for less than a year. Since William is not the heir to the throne yet, the opportunities she has to do work for or on behalf of the royal family is small. Also, William is in the middle of his military duties, so there's even less for her to do, outside of a few appearances here and there with more senior members.
I will never understand why it is so hard for people to understand that Kate is not a senior royal and as such she does not have to act like one. She is not a Princess of Wales, Crown Princess, or a daughter of the Queen; she is the wife of the Queen's grandson, a grandson who just so happens to be a part time royal and full time RAF pilot. Unfortunately it seems that Kate, William and the BRF have a better understanding of what Kate's role and duty is than some in the general public who think 10yrs of dating a man should mean she is ready to step out and be the new Princess Diana or on the same level as Charles or the Queen. How many years and times did Charles stumble before he finally found his calling in life rather than just be known as the man waiting for his mother to die so he can become King.
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  #853  
Old 03-17-2012, 12:04 AM
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Is this the reason that William is doing military. He doesn't just want to wait for someone to die so he can be king. Better be productive until he is needed.
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  #854  
Old 03-17-2012, 12:12 AM
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The idea of Kate pursuing a 'career' in art or any other field now that she's married into the BRF is utterly preposterous. To start with, any such career would have to be undertaken in London, where pretty much all of the UK's major art galleries / museums are situated (with a few notable exceptions). Given that Prince William is working 12 hour shifts full time in Angelsey, this would mean she would almost never see him. William wants to pursue his military career until the end of 2013 at least.

In addition, it's obvious that over the coming 3-5 years, William and Kate will be expected to take on more and more of the load as time inevitably catches up with the Queen and DoE. They also have to fit in producing an heir and at least one spare sometime soon.

But ultimately, the BRF need Kate, particularly, to be visible. She is the star of the show at the moment. I think they've found a nice balance that allows her to be in Angelsey with William to enjoy being newlyweds, and also do her duty and be seen to do her duty. Having Kate sitting in an office in a gallery or museum in London just wouldn't allow her to do those things.
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  #855  
Old 03-17-2012, 12:18 AM
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The idea of Kate pursuing a 'career' in art or any other field now that she's married into the BRF is utterly preposterous. To start with, any such career would have to be undertaken in London, where pretty much all of the UK's major art galleries / museums are situated (with a few notable exceptions). Given that Prince William is working 12 hour shifts full time in Angelsey, this would mean she would almost never see him. William wants to pursue his military career until the end of 2013 at least.

In addition, it's obvious that over the coming 3-5 years, William and Kate will be expected to take on more and more of the load as time inevitably catches up with the Queen and DoE. They also have to fit in producing an heir and at least one spare sometime soon.

But ultimately, the BRF need Kate, particularly, to be visible. She is the star of the show at the moment. I think they've found a nice balance that allows her to be in Angelsey with William to enjoy being newlyweds, and also do her duty and be seen to do her duty. Having Kate sitting in an office in a gallery or museum in London just wouldn't allow her to do those things.
Plus the howling that would ensue because she took a job from someone more qualified and who actually "needs" to work. I would imagine that any job working with the Royal Collection would be very coveted and highly sought after.
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  #856  
Old 03-17-2012, 12:34 AM
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Kate's "career" is being a royal princess and all that's entailed with that status. Once William succeeds as the Duke of Cornwall and (most likely) be named the Prince of Wales, she'll be a full-time working royal until the end of her days. She and William will never be able to retire, and so I think they're wise to keep things low-key until they're required to step up to full-time royal duties.
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  #857  
Old 03-17-2012, 03:34 PM
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Like the Queens motto "I have to be seen to be believed".
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  #858  
Old 03-19-2012, 12:58 AM
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Well, I mean 'career' in a different way than it would apply to the rest of us. If one has wealth and something of a 'job' - social obligations one must show up at - one doesn't have the same kind of career as one that defines one's life. However, there are historians and artists and writers aplenty in the ranks of royals. If one is intellectually curious in the least it would be hard not to find oneself exploring avenues of interest that eventually become one's own and after a lifetime can be looked at as an achievement.

I saw a documentary on Prince Philip - it becomes clear where Prince Charles got his inspiration from to be a good estate manager - and even with a man so clearly defined in the public eye as the Queen's consort - he has nonetheless a vivid private life of work and accomplishment behind him, albeit circumscribed. His son has taken it a step further.

I think we are mincing words when we speak of Charles' work and career outside of being royal. Yes his royal status defines him at all times - but he very definitely has a career and work outside of that defining world of royal obligations. I had a conversation with someone British about this and I am aware that because Charles didn't get university degrees in the areas he has studied on his own this somehow makes him less serious - and because he is royal that somehow by definition means he doesn't work. The truth is he does both - work and study and is a man to be considered and listened to because of that work and study. His actions speak for him. For some reason the British public view him as a lightweight and a dilettante - when he is very far from either if you look at the reality. I ascribe this to some odd reporting by the British press - who latch onto anyone's words that minimize Charles' accomplishments.

Kate could be studying and pursuing art in any number of ways in her private life, making a place for herself in the world. Yet from what you say it seems you feel Kate will be defined by public protocols - and that will be her life - that she has, indeed, found 'her place' in the world as the wife of William. Ouch! If so, how stifling, how impossible. Its a wonder that any woman would be willing to marry a British prince close to the throne with those expectations. I would hazard that if Kate believes that stuff then she - along with William - will hardly be the 'modernizing couple' for the monarchy.

Anyway, the point that I am making is that Kate could model a modern woman combining intellectual pursuits with social and family. She could. She may do that. Only the future will reveal that. It has not yet.

Perhaps Kate does not want to be that type of person. It's it obvious? Even when she was dating William, she worked for her parents and part-time at Jigsaw. Maybe Kate it's the type of woman that wants to live that life and maybe that isn't her passion. I know plenty of women and men living in the 21st century who do not have some high flying career or that stay at home with the kids or whatever who do not indulge in "intellectual pursuits". It doesn't make them outdated and having that doesn't make them modern. It's all in opinion. I find it just as admirable to be a homemaker or a CEO as a woman or man. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit into your view of what she should be doing, but that's the life she lives and has chosen to live and I don't think that makes her any less of a modern woman or person.

Besides that she has really gotten herslef involved so far in seeking out and visiting patronages, organizations, and interests that she has and being William's wife and a princess and future queen.
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:14 AM
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I'm sorry if that doesn't fit into your view of what she should be doing
You shouldn't be sorry - because I'm not. I simply expressed an observation - as we all do here - so nothing to be sorry about.
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  #860  
Old 03-19-2012, 03:08 AM
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I believe these days we learned a bit more about the position of "wife by his side" - first Prince Harry's interview which was very open about the fact that with the man comes the prince comes the duties of his princess.

And yesterday the new German president was voted for. It was clear who would win the vote, so the media has focused a lot about him - and the woman by his side. So far they are not married but have a long-standing liaison, but she had her job as a leading editor with a serious paper in Nuremburg while he lived in Berlin. But due to his need for a "First Lady" she gave up her career and home in Bavaria and they'll move together into the official home of the Bundespräsident. It was Ms. Schadt's decision to support her lifepartner and spend those years by his side on fulfilling duties for the Federal Republic. And there was no negative comment about that.
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