Catherine & William: 'Closer' Magazine and Breach of Privacy - September 2012


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Thank you :)
I find it hilarious for a person to strip for a decent tan when everyone knows the side effects. Catherine looks good with pale skin. I personally find stripping, for anyone anywhere a strange idea. Not just for royals.

Actually I found it odd to put on one swimsuit to swim and another to tan. It has always stuck me as a bit odd to put on anything in order to get wet, at least when swimming in private. And why bother at all when tanning. Who wants tan lines anyway. A nice golden allover tan does look much better and sexier than a pasty white body though.
 
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen
Thank you :)
I find it hilarious for a person to strip for a decent tan when everyone knows the side effects. Catherine looks good with pale skin. I personally find stripping, for anyone anywhere a strange idea. Not just for royals.

Artemisia said:
I happen to agree with you completely, on both accounts ...

I'd be interested to know that if you agree "completely", if that includes the fact that you too find it "hilarious".

I ask for clarification because I find your posts thoughtful and well-balanced. You finding another person's misfortune - whether minor or major - "hilarious" doesn't line up with what I've seen from your other posts here. :flowers:
 
XeniaCasaraghi said:
A long with my image of William going into a rage over this; I also fear Catherine has said tears over this. No woman....or person deserves this crap.

I won't doubt it for a moment. My heart goes out to them both, as I've said before. I think that one has every reason to expect privacy when on the grounds of a family estate, and in my eyes, the couple has every right to be angry and upset. Yes, they pay a hefty price for the privileges they have, but, their private time is just that, private. It's disgusting that anyone can dehumanized a person (woman or man) for the purpose of making a buck/pound/etc.
 
This may stray a little off topic but here goes. Many people commenting here are of the opinion that because William and Catherine live a life of 'privilege', they have to accept they have no rights whatsoever and are public property. Really??

Who made up the rules that W&C are public property 24/7 ? It seems to me that the tabloid press are the self-appointed 'keepers' of the Royal Family and they are the ones that decided to put W&C on display 24/7

Back to the life of privilege. If the monarchy in Britain was abolished today, W&C would still be multi-millionaires, they would still have public influence with large sections of the public, they would still own many private properties and still spend their Christmases at Sandringham and their summers at Balmoral, in short be 'better off' than they are now because they would be able to do what they want and give 'two fingers' to anyone that questioned their behaviour.

If Britain is at a place where they expect the BRF to have no lives and no rights in return for a 'life of privilege', then this is one monarchist that would rather a republic, then to subject the BRF to such an unbearable life of no privacy.
 
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I'd be interested to know that if you agree "completely", if that includes the fact that you too find it "hilarious".
I ask for clarification because I find your posts thoughtful and well-balanced. You finding another person's misfortune - whether minor or major - "hilarious" doesn't line up with what I've seen from your other posts here. :flowers:
I agreed with the two points made by Lumutqueen - about pale skin (although I'm probably biased since I'm naturally very fair myself), and about getting completely naked anywhere (but your own bedroom/bathroom, obviously), certainly not where you could be seen by anyone (and again, I acknowledge being rather more conservative than many).

"Hilarious" would not necessarily have been the word I would use to describe the situation. Although I do think that there was some lack of judgement involved (just as with Harry's Vegas adventure), my sympathies are on William and Kate's side because this is an unthinkable invasion of privacy, an act of harassment and simply humiliation that should not, in my opinion, go unpunished.

Thank you for your very kind words concerning my other posts. :)
None of the posts I make are intended to offend anyone (royals, members of this forum, or others): I simply express my point of view as politely as possible.
 
I'd be interested to know that if you agree "completely", if that includes the fact that you too find it "hilarious".

I ask for clarification because I find your posts thoughtful and well-balanced. You finding another person's misfortune - whether minor or major - "hilarious" doesn't line up with what I've seen from your other posts here. :flowers:

Just because Artemisia rights well thought out posts, does not mean she isn't allowed to agree with someone who clearly disagrees with you.

If you read what I wrote, I do not find Catherine's misfortune hilarious. I find the situation she got herself into hilarious. She got naked on a balcony or whatever just to get a suntan. That's more crazy than eating a cheeseburger with a doughnut as the bun.

NGalitzine: A nice golden allover tan does look much better and sexier than a pasty white body though.

Could not disagree more, particularly when being pale causes you no potential illness but baking yourself in the sun does. Catherine's had a tan before, when she came back from her honeymoon and she looked awful. You're either born with that sun kissed glow or your not, don't mess with what God intended.

This may stray a little off topic but here goes. Many people commenting here are of the opinion that because William and Catherine live a life of 'privilege', they have to accept they have rights whatsoever and are public property. Really??

You know I think one of the main issues with this, is the media relations as a whole between the british royal family and the press. You notice that the British press, who hound these two royals as if they were meat and hadn't eaten in days didn't touch these pictures with a barge pole. Although I hate to admit it our press has some deceny. William and Henry, in this country, have always been off limits to anything but good press. They are Diana's sons and the majority of papers, depending on how they spin things, keep it light about these two.

Foreign press on the other hand, and notice it does tend to be countries that don't have a royal family (barring the Danish paper who's apparently printing the totally nude pictures), tend to grab all the gossip they can and just shove it out there to make money.

There needs to be some guidelines or rules for all press when dealing with royals, there has got to be some give and take.
I always thought that when something happened like a wedding or an occasion, the press would receive something like official pictures or inside information etc. In return the press would 'owe' the royals a favour, and when something like this would come out they would back off and refuse to publish. The media has always been an issue for the BRF, they are IMO just too closed off to a public and press that do love and appreciate them.
 
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I really can't believe this thread is still so active. The pictures are out there and will be on the internet forever so to me it's moot whether Kate and William win any court cases. The point is that the pictures exist. And that's where the real problem lies, IMO.

I am of the belief that no woman, whether royal, celebrity, or not should show her breasts in any place that someone you don't want, can see them. So, that would include every location outside a building or home where the blinds are not closed.

There is right and wrong behavior for every human being. That's just life. I don't think, as Kate is a very popular person, she should expect people (especially those wanting to make a buck) to "respect her privacy." She might want very badly to be able to sunbathe with no tan lines. I might want very badly to sunbathe topless on my front lawn. But people will stare, I might be arrested, and for sure, my photo will be on Facebook, etc. Would I have a right to privacy in that situation? I'd be on private property.
 
Duke-of-Earl said:
This may stray a little off topic but here goes. Many people commenting here are of the opinion that because William and Catherine live a life of 'privilege', they have to accept they have rights whatsoever and are public property. Really??

Who made up the rules that W&C are public property 24/7 ? It seems to me that the tabloid press are the self-appointed 'keepers' of the Royal Family and they are the ones that decided to put W&C on display 24/7

Back to the life of privilege. If the monarchy in Britain was abolished today, W&C would still be multi-millionaires, they would still have public influence with large sections of the public, they would still own many private properties and still spend their Christmases at Sandringham and their summers at Balmoral, in short be 'better off' than they are now because they would be able to do what they want and give 'two fingers' to anyone that questioned their behaviour.

If Britain is at a place where they expect the BRF to have no lives and no rights in return for a 'life of privilege', then this is one monarchist that would rather a republic, then to subject the BRF to such an unbearable life of no privacy.

I agree with you. No one deserves to be treated like a source of revenue, be they royal or not. To clarify; the royals should be photographed in a respectful manner during public appearances, and be left completely alone when on holidays, unless there's an arranged photo session. They're human beings first and foremost, and deserve to be treated as such at all times. To get the kind of pictures the degenerate did is basically treating a person as an object; an exhibit at the zoo to be stared at.
 
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I agreed with the two points made by Lumutqueen - about pale skin (although I'm probably biased since I'm naturally very fair myself), and about getting completely naked anywhere (but your own bedroom/bathroom, obviously), certainly not where you could be seen by anyone (and again, I acknowledge being rather more conservative than many).

"Hilarious" would not necessarily have been the word I would use to describe the situation. Although I do think that there was some lack of judgement involved (just as with Harry's Vegas adventure), my sympathies are on William and Kate's side because this is an unthinkable invasion of privacy, an act of harassment and simply humiliation that should not, in my opinion, go unpunished.

Thank you for your very kind words concerning my other posts. :)
None of the posts I make are intended to offend anyone (royals, members of this forum, or others): I simply express my point of view as politely as possible.

Thanks for the clarification - when you used the word "completely" it threw me off. :)
 
To get the kind of pictures the French degenerate did is basically treating a person as an object; an exhibit at the zoo to be stared at.

Are we even sure he's French? And no matter what's the photographer's nationality, let's not generalize his behaviour to the whole country or demonize its people.
 
This may stray a little off topic but here goes. Many people commenting here are of the opinion that because William and Catherine live a life of 'privilege', they have to accept they have no rights whatsoever and are public property. Really??

I've been surprised by the number of people who believe this, too. William and Kate live public lives but they are in no way public property. They will always have a somewhat symbiotic relationship with the press and there will always need to be give and take on both sides, but the idea that this couple should give up the most basic right of privacy because, after all, they're incredibly privileged is abhorrent to me. I guess the somewhat privileged people on this forum should only have to give up some of their right to privacy?

I think the royals need to take responsibility for their actions - I had very little sympathy for Prince Harry a couple of weeks ago, for example, when he did everything but paint a bullseye on his own back. But William and Kate were on private property and had every reasonable expectation of being alone.
 
... William and Kate live public lives but they are in no way public property. They will always have a somewhat symbiotic relationship with the press and there will always need to be give and take on both sides, but the idea that this couple should give up the most basic right of privacy because, after all, they're incredibly privileged is abhorrent to me...

Yes, I also think this is one of the takeaways from this conversation/thread: that some people have an attitude that is best described as embittered. By this I mean that it seems some people believe that because a person has wealth, status or other privilege that they have, in some way, become less entitled to privacy or other basic human/social rights. As if one is related to the other.

I do not feel that we "fund" the Monarchy, in the sense that they are accountable to us as individuals and/or taxpayers. I do believe my government is so accountable, but the Monarchy is not elected nor does it govern. Frankly, if I had a problem with any tax money going to them, I'd be talking to my MP, not a member of the Monarchy. I believe they are accountable to us as a society in a broad sense but I am not remotely interested in them in a celebrity sense. I don't care what they wear or what food they like. I don't care how many cars they have or what kind of dog they prefer except in the same vague way I am interested in all popular culture.

I am interested in the way they weave themselves into the modern world, as an extension of their historical role and a hint at their future role. The more modern we become the more I am convinced we need to hang onto such symbols of nationality, tradition: identity.

Whoops - went on a tangent. Rather than delete I will just carry on ...

Privilege and position come with certain tacit obligations, yes - but not one of them entitles anyone to infringe upon their privacy or to presume that said privilege entitles *anyone else* to anything beyond their own interest.
 
:previous:

Personally, I don't think rich or famous people are not entitled to privacy, far from it. Artists, actresses, entrepreneurs, and others in position of wealth or fame have as much rights to privacy as anyone else. The thing is, those people don't live in castles that (in most cases) belong to people, their security is not paid by people, their official expenses are not covered by people, they usually have made their own fortune through hard work, their well-being is not placed above that of any of their countrymen...

From that perspective, Royal Families - all of them - do in part belong to people. If royals do not like that state of things, they can always relinquish their rights and become private citizens - immensely wealthy and privileged still, but private nonetheless.

Again, this is my opinion. No offence is meant towards anyone or disrespect towards anyone's point of view.
 
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We gave up owning people in the British Empire a long long time ago.
Touché! :lol:
Owning and belonging are two different things though. I may consider my life belongs to my country, but it sure as hell doesn't own me.
The point I was making is certainly not shared by a lot of people here, and I respect that; however, that does not change my opinion either. :)
 
I think it is an awfully perverse world where Britain requires 'the heir of body of the Electress Sophia of Hanover' to be our Head of State (without giving said heir a choice) and then say for the 'privilege' of requiring 24/7 security ( to keep the crazies away) and having their expenses paid for (do we expect any head of state to pay out of pocket?) and allowing the royals to stay in castles ( this is a perk?), the Royals and especially William and Catherine have to live in a fish-bowl for their entire lives is just brutal.

I will say again, either the people of the realms 're-negotiate' our relationship with the royal family or it won't last.

William and Catherine are humans and to treat them or any member of the BRF as a sideshow exhibit is just not humane.
 
From that perspective, Royal Families - all of them - do in part belong to people. If royals do not like that state of things, they can always relinquish their rights and become private citizens - immensely wealthy and privileged still, but private nonetheless.

In the context and spirit in which I believe you mean this, I agree. Prince William has the duties and obligations that are part and parcel of a royal existence. He must serve his people in some capacity that is both clearly beneficial and inclusive. Wholeheartedly agree.

William Wales or Windsor or whatever name he uses in his private existence owes us nothing beyond not doing anything that would clearly be detrimental to us, his people.


Back in the day when the Monarch could chop off your head there was a natural, albeit Draconian, balance in effect. The Monarch could ENFORCE his or her privacy and the people could revolt. Ask the French, right? Today, the people can still revolt but the Monarch has been systematically stripped of their power to balance the popular demand with the right to a private life. The Queen cannot simply demand that the photos be not published in England, as an example, or demand that no paps follow Kate. But we can still demand from them what we think they owe us ... the balance is gone and the new rules of engagement are still being worked upon :)

Imagine. Being the man who will be King one day and knowing the public will demand a great deal from him and yet being unable to demand that photos of his naked wife be kept private. It is a street that does not run entirely evenly in both directions.

Anyhow ... yes, they belong to us - but isn't that as much a protective mode as it is a demanding one? When did we stop protecting and began only demanding?
 
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I will say again, either the people of the realms 're-negotiate' our relationship with the royal family or it won't last.

I ought to have just said ... "What he said."

Respect is not just a curtsy or the use of a title. One might characterize respect as the diligent application of good manners as a token of esteem. Although I doubt its on a list anywhere, good manners, where I come from, says you avert your eyes if the future King's wife's breasts become visible. Thereafter you pretend it didn't happen and you give the stink-eye to whomever has the bad manners to mention it. If necessary you smack the camera from the hand of the moron who is pointing it. Or something like that. What you do NOT do is tell the future king his wife should have bought a better bra or worn two in case one fell off.

:)
 
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Are we even sure he's French? And no matter what's the photographer's nationality, let's not generalize his behaviour to the whole country or demonize its people.

I edited my post to make less offensive. I was a bit hot-headed when I wrote it.
 
I'm all for renegotiating how the media behaves not just for royals but for all famous people. Another issue I have is taking pictures up woman's skirts.
 
Look, until the "voyouers" stop buying this crap, they are fair game. You have celebrity you are open to the press. If you are "wise" you make sure of your real privacy. Otherwise, you never put yourself in a compromising position. The price of fame is very great, you get great rewards and you pay a great price. Why would you have to remove your top, knowing what we do today about sun exposure. It is foolhardy. Also, on top, like me, she is nothing particularly special, it is just a large sound over nothing.
 
Also, on top, like me, she is nothing particularly special, it is just a large sound over nothing.


What??? Wha ...... that appears on its surface to be an incredibly sexist comment. Perhaps I misunderstand.

Please clarify for me. So, if she was large-breasted, it would be a different matter?

In my mind, it's not about the breasts at all. Not even remotely. And to speculate that it's much ado about nothing in the context you have is very crude and the sort of thing the rags are saying.
 
What??? Wha ...... that appears on its surface to be an incredibly sexist comment. Perhaps I misunderstand.

Please clarify for me. So, if she was large-breasted, it would be a different matter?

In my mind, it's not about the breasts at all. Not even remotely. And to speculate that it's much ado about nothing in the context you have is very crude and the sort of thing the rags are saying.

You are right, but, usually, it is about size, unfortunately. The "rags" are the "rags", as you call, them, and I have never purchsed one, but many, disgustingly, do. If it were not for her "celebrity", they wouldn't have wasted their time, because, no man would have bothered looking at them. She is stunning,. but not voluptuous and men..... It is sexist. Men are what they are, they would only sell to some dubious few. What is worse, I think women, also, buy crap like this when it is someone famous. Frankly, I don't care what they look like underneath their clothing. I thought Harry's stuff was purile.
 
NGalitzine said:
A nice golden allover tan does look much better and sexier than a pasty white body though.

Apologies for going off-topic, but "a pasty white body" is definitely sexier than a body covered with horrible scars from skin cancer removal. (And I speak from personal experience with family members.)
 
Whew! Countess. Calm down. You are right in that being a celebrity makes you a target for the media. They are who they are and there is no going back but, there is also the private side of these two. They should be able to go on a holiday to a private estate and enjoy the time they have together without the media hiding in the bushes and invading the only private time they do have. Granted, she took her top off to sunbathe I know but, they should not have to be thinking that oh god, we better behave ourselves in this private setting because someone might be in the bushes 100 yards away possibly taking our pictures. Its just not right. If they are on an island in obvious full view then there arent any rules but come on, there has to be a line drawn somewhere, dont you think? When they are in the public eye, they are fair game but, when they are in an intimate setting trying to enjoy some peace and quiet and eachother, they should be off limits. Just my opinion.
 
There is nothing wrong with being pale or having a nice glow, stop trying to convince people one is better than the other.
 
That this debate continues to flourish around the periphery of the real issues of this regrettable incident suprises me. There are two salient points: in a secluded, pirvate house, far enough distant from a public road as to be hard to see clearly or properly, a married couple had their privacy invaded by, allegedly, a criminal act. Secondly, a woman of some celebrity was deliberately stalked to enable some people to make money from her humiliation. The rest is persiflage and not to be taken seriously. Considerations such as the size or shape of the Duchess' breasts or the colour of her skin are nothing to the purpose.

We have seen a spokesman for Closure maintain that the photos “are by no means degrading” and “show a beautiful, in love, modern holidaying young couple, in their normal life.” “I would love a photo of my bollocks to be taken in secret, printed in a magazine and viewed by millions of people across the country,” he did NOT add. Women, we should remember, do not get to define their own reality or have the last say on their own feelings or experiences. Catherine, making clear that she considered the photos degrading was not deemed relevant because some man decided that they were not. Closer’s female editor has also described the photos as “not in the least shocking”, using that classic tactic of wheeling out a woman to defend misogyny, a gay person to defend homophobia or a black person to defend racism.

Already there are claims that these photos are on Creepshots and similar ugly sites for perverts, including those given to Revenge Porn. One of those engaged in researching possible legal routes for victims of these despicable sites is Professor Mary Anne Franks, associate professor of law at the University of Miami. "What unites Creepshots, the Middleton photographs, the revenge porn websites," says Franks, "is that they all feature the same fetishisation of non-consensual sexual activity with women who either you don't have any access to, or have been denied future access to. And it's really this product of rage and entitlement."

Franks finds it interesting and bewildering that the response to these situations is so often to blame the woman involved. The argument goes: "'You shouldn't have given those pictures to that person', or 'You shouldn't have been sunbathing in a private residence', or 'You should never, as a woman, take off your clothes in any context where anybody could possibly ever have a camera'. That's been shocking to me, that people aren't just outraged and furious about this, but they're actually making excuses for this behaviour, and blaming women for ever being sexual any time, at all.

"Even in a completely private setting, within a marriage – it couldn't be any more innocuous than the Middleton situation – and yet people are still saying things like: what was she expecting, she's famous and she's got breasts, and therefore she's got to keep them covered up all the time. I do think it's a rage against women being sexual on their own terms. We're perfectly fine with women being sexual, as long as they are objects and they're passive, and we can turn them on, turn them off, download them, delete them, whatever it is. But as soon as it's women who want to have any kind of exclusionary rights about their intimacy, we hate that. We say, 'No, we're going to make a whore out of you'."

Women everywhere, from every walk of life, should be insulted and angry at this egregious violation. Every man or boy in my life is, too, on the Duchess' behalf.
 
I hate when people quote entire long posts just to give a one word reply so I will not do it.
But Polly you are entirely right! There aren't enough emoticons in the world that I can give you right now.
:flowers::mountie::rose:
 
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