Catherine & William: 'Closer' Magazine and Breach of Privacy - September 2012


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
. . . Yes, of course, they are victims, but that is their lives. They are "celebrities", as all "royals" are, they court the press for positive press, they will, also, get negative press. The days of the sacrosanct "royal" being is gone.
Sacrosanct may be gone but surely legality and decency have not or are royalty not covered by the laws of the land?
 
Other than this Forum I don't know anyone who expressed a great deal of interest in the photos and certainly no one who is still talking about the story.
 
Other than this Forum I don't know anyone who expressed a great deal of interest in the photos and certainly no one who is still talking about the story.

Don't know about the British or Swedish media but it's still written about here in DK.
Not so much the pictures themselves as about the magazine printing them, why they were printed in the first place and whether the BRF will take legal action. (Which I hope they will)
On average one or two online articles a day.
 
Of course, he knew he'd make a fortune. There is no alone, if you are a celebrity. Yes, all people have the right to privacy and I don't buy or read this junk, but, obviosuly many do, otherwise it would not be worth a fortune. Injunction or not, those pics will show up somehwere and I am sure at a great price. Also, if everyone, totally ignored it, it would have died on its own.

There would be considerably more respect about privacy if the consequences for violating it were greater.
The fines and compensations the magazines have to pay today are downright ridicules.
Try a fine for 1 million € and the mags might start to think twice about using such pictures.
 
Oh, come on, they live by publicity. Sure they are entitled to privacy, but these are people who know the invasive nature of the Pararazzi and the public. Harry in Las Vegas, wow, what a revelation, Fergie having her toes sucked or come on. They court what they think is positive publicity, but once you do that, you are open to all scrutiny. Yes, of course, they are victims, but that is their lives. They are "celebrities", as all "royals" are, they court the press for positive press, they will, also, get negative press. The days of the sacrosanct "royal" being is gone.


We're not talking here about 'positive' press and 'negative' press. The royals realise that they're always going to be subject to a critical press, in terms of the media making judgements about their usefulness every day of their lives.

The royals require press coverage for their work, to justify their existence and to try and make a positive contribution to society through support of good causes. The press also need the royals, understanding that a picture of Kate on their front pages sells more copies (hence why Kate tends to be on the front page of almost all British papers the day after her public appearances).

The relationship between royals and the press is mutually beneficial when it works properly. It's not a matter of the royals getting all the benefit of press coverage and being unwilling to take any of the pain. They accept plenty of critical press coverage. But ultimately, there's a big difference between supporting press freedom and accepting the press's wilful disregard of the law and the fundamental human rights of those they're covering.
 
I feel that in this discussion there has been a bit of a misunderstanding or confusion or unintended emphasis given to comments made by some of us, myself included, about Kate and/or William knowing better. It's not blaming Kate, i.e. saying it was her fault rather than the perpetrator's. It is merely saying that in much the same way as people who choose to swim in the surf on Western Australian or South African beaches at dusk run a very real risk of being attacked by a great white shark, there was a very real risk. Like the surfer, Kate and William should have been aware of the risk of a hidden predator attacking and they assumed the risks inherent in the activity.

When there is as much interest in you as there is in Kate, unless you are 100% sure that there is no way someone could photograph you with a modern telephoto lens, i.e. unless your security people know the location well and have made lengthy and thorough checks to ensure there is nowhere from which a photographer with the right equipment could snap a pic - and, IMO, in view of the prominent location of that residence in hilly country, there should have been real doubt about that - you don't do something that you wouldn't mind seeing immortalised in a photo on the front page of the paper.

It was most certainly an invasion of their privacy, but they should expect their privacy to be invaded, because, like it or not, that's an incident of their lives, which, again like it or not, are lived in the public these days. The line between public and private is a fine one due to modern technology and instantaneous communications. And William, who has been royal all his life, and the son of Diana, should, of all people, be only too well aware of these facts. He might not like it, and I'm sure he'll huff and puff about it and denounce the paparazzi and issue lots of lawsuits, but, like shark teeth, new paps will keep popping up the moment one is knocked out. It will never end for them. I hope he accepts this and accepts the need to behave very cautiously in future and doesn't make it a mission to tantalise the paps and then chase them in Court. That could get tiresome.

Very well put, Roslyn. Thank you for your sanity in the matter.
 
Købmand sender Se og Hør med topløs Kate retur - TV 2 Nyhederne

We have a story here about the owner of a local grocery store, Thomas Hansen, from the small town of Søndervig in DK.
He has returned the weekly shipment of Se & Hør magazines in protest and written on a sign: "Dear Costumer. Here in this store we have chosen to remove Se & Hør from the shelves, as we don't believe they respect the peace of privacy (*) by showing the much debated photos of the English royal family".

(*) Peace of Privacy is what the legislation guarding privacy is called here in DK.

Ups! I made a mistake in ths summary. The name of the grocer is Thomas Hansen.

Kim Henningsen is the name of the editor of Se & Hør, and he is getting a pretty rough treatment by the tabloids!

Ville se chefredaktørens kones bryster: Truet til tavshed - Danmark | www.bt.dk
This is the story about a guy named Jacob Beer, who opened a Facebook group calling for people to submit legal topless photos of Kim Henningsen's wife - they were then to be published on Facebook.
Aller Press put the legal department on the case and the Facebook group has now been closed, even though it called for nothing illegal.
Kim Henningsen has declined to answer why there appears to be a double-standard. one for Kate and one for the editor's wife.

Another tabloid, Ekstra Bladet, has given him an even worse treatment. Ekstra Bladet - Se og Hrs sladderkonge er p rven
Ekstra Bladet - Ordre til Se og Hr-ansatte: Kram stakkels Kim!

They write on the frontpage today about his financial situation in details. The editor, Kim Henningsen is according to Ekstra Bladet, de facto broke.

They are also mocking him, as you can see in the large picture in the articles.
 
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Ups! I made a mistake in ths summary. The name of the grocer is Thomas Hansen.

Kim Henningsen is the name of the editor of Se & Hør, and he is getting a pretty rough treatment by the tabloids!

Ville se chefredaktørens kones bryster: Truet til tavshed - Danmark | www.bt.dk
This is the story about a guy named Jacob Beer, who opened a Facebook group calling for people to submit legal topless photos of Kim Henningsen's wife - they were then to be published on Facebook.
Aller Press put the legal department on the case and the Facebook group has now been closed, even though it called for nothing illegal.
Kim Henningsen has declined to answer why there appears to be double-standard. one for Kate and one for the editor's wife.

Another tabloid, Ekstra Bladet, has given him an even worse treatment. Ekstra Bladet - Se og Hrs sladderkonge er p rven
Ekstra Bladet - Ordre til Se og Hr-ansatte: Kram stakkels Kim!

They write on the frontpage today about his financial situation in details. The editor, Kim Henningsen is according to Ekstra Bladet, de facto broke.


They are also mocking him, as you can see in the large picture in the articles.

Talk about Karma.

Wow again it begs the question...was it worth it?

For the record, I don't believe the wife should be harassed because of the actions of her husband but it is a legit question. Would be interested in his wife if she wasn't his wife?

Now the editor has opened himself up to a whole of questions, a scrutiny about your finances, an extra interest in your wife simply because she is married to you a guy who is in the public eye.......I would imagine its not a good feeling to your life dissected by everyone. Wonder what he thinks about that?:whistling:
 
The article says 'William and Kate fully topless' I think lol. My french is rusty

"Nothing to hide"
 
Again my french is rusty but the article appears to be a spoof of some sort.
 
The article says 'William and Kate fully topless' I think lol. My french is rusty

"Nothing to hide"

That is to be taken litteral, I understand.

The saga about the editor of Se & Hør (*), Kim Henningsen, continues.
Ekstra Bladet - Hyklerkongen truer kritikere til tavshed
Under the headline: The hypocrite-king treathens critics to be silent, the tabloid Ekstra Bladet summons up todays events in details.
From the Facebook group that was shut down, to a lawyer from Aller Press now threatning the editor of Ekstra Bladet, Poul Madsen, because the paper revealed details about Kim Henningsen's economy.

Let me make one things absolutely clear, I don't like Ekstra Bladet and I in particular loathe Poul Madsen. But if this is getting more ugly, Kim Henningsen will lose!

On Sundays editors of the major papers here in DK discuss press ethics on TV, and some editors have been grilled thoroughly for their actions!
I sincerely hope Kim Henningsen will appear - if not, he will be seen as a chicken by the other editors.
It could be very interesting to see Kim Henningsen in the hot chair. - I admit freely that I'm gleeful. :D

(*) Because the letter Ø doesn't exist in English, the name of Se & Hør is written in English as Se & Hor. Se & Hør means See & Hear, however hor litterally means whoring or adultery in Danish, so the English translation is unwittingly very appropriate.
 
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Another learning step,thats all..

This is my first post on The Royal Forums. And it is a pity that I am going to start on this unfortunate issue. But I think its worth it, since William and Kate are the most important ones to the British monarchy. And atleast in my view, British monarchy is seen as some sort of “flagship/torchbearer” of all other monarchies, atleast outside Europe. Now coming to the actual topic..
1. The very spirit of tabloids is to expose the “deepest” of those special/privileged ones in whom us lesser mortals are interested to death. And this is for the same reason they have been thoroughly patronised since time immemorial, in various forms, of course.
2. Whether publishing these omni-mentioned pics is ethical or not..Dont you think if all these people started brainstorming and laid ground rules about ethics, sensibilities, sensitivities etc..they actually lose their “charm” and come on, their patrons aren’t exactly going to be happy. Of course I will be happiest if this episode leads to a massive public outrage or legal proceedings that will teach them a lesson for once and all. But I surely doubt. Even Queen Elizabeth had to bow down to all the cheap nasty game these people have played on public following Diana’s death.
3. Then should we just blame W&K for it. I instinctively did it. Not that they were immature/irresponsible/naive..It’s just totally unexpected. That happens to everyone in a new job/role, though this is a bit er...Phenomenal. They have a very very long life ahead. They will have to endure far more than the Queen..Hope this will just make them stronger and better,,
Hope this is ok.. do comment if possible..
 
Are they celebrities? Hell ya

Are they celebrities?
And regarding this unending question, I feel..If one is not well aware and does not thoroughly appreciate the constitutional significance and charity work done by royals, then one is definitely bound to view them as celebrities..Even many of us on TRF do so.(6 out of 10 discussions are DaytimeFashion/Eveningwear)
But regarding them as celebrities is far better than all other titles they were and are bestowed upon forever in Youtube..lizards..reptiles..parasites..u name it..
 
I don't see how discussing their fashion makes them celebrities. I discuss the fashion choices of my mum, she's not a celebrity. Neither am I.

"Celebrity" is used a lot these days, and I don't think you can class The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge in the same barrel as the likes of Kim Kardashian or Paris Hilton.
 
This is my first post on The Royal Forums. And it is a pity that I am going to start on this unfortunate issue. But I think its worth it, since William and Kate are the most important ones to the British monarchy. And atleast in my view, British monarchy is seen as some sort of “flagship/torchbearer” of all other monarchies, atleast outside Europe. Now coming to the actual topic..
1. The very spirit of tabloids is to expose the “deepest” of those special/privileged ones in whom us lesser mortals are interested to death. And this is for the same reason they have been thoroughly patronised since time immemorial, in various forms, of course.
2. Whether publishing these omni-mentioned pics is ethical or not..Dont you think if all these people started brainstorming and laid ground rules about ethics, sensibilities, sensitivities etc..they actually lose their “charm” and come on, their patrons aren’t exactly going to be happy. Of course I will be happiest if this episode leads to a massive public outrage or legal proceedings that will teach them a lesson for once and all. But I surely doubt. Even Queen Elizabeth had to bow down to all the cheap nasty game these people have played on public following Diana’s death.
3. Then should we just blame W&K for it. I instinctively did it. Not that they were immature/irresponsible/naive..It’s just totally unexpected. That happens to everyone in a new job/role, though this is a bit er...Phenomenal. They have a very very long life ahead. They will have to endure far more than the Queen..Hope this will just make them stronger and better,,
Hope this is ok.. do comment if possible..

Welcome to TRF!

Now that the photo incident has been in the news for a while, to me its been amazing what the differences of opinion are and how differently a diverse group of people can look at and analyze what happened.

I do think that people who are public figures have an onus on themselves that most ordinary people don't. Everything about these figures is deemed to be of interest to the general public. We live in a society where those in the spotlight live in a totally different world and with following their day to day activities, we live vicariously through them. We put our day to day toils and troubles to the side and when our "heroes" mess up or are caught with their pants down (so to speak) , we cackle in glee and think they're just as human as the rest of us. If the magazine enterprises only reported as the Court Circular does for William and Kate, none of the papers would sell.

Nothing in this world is ever 100% certain and sometimes things happen that couldn't have been solved by forethought. William and Kate believed they had absolute privacy. Back in 1982, the Queen also thought her bedroom was 100% private and secure but woke up to Michael Fagan sitting on her bed. This man had planned (according to some sources) to commit suicide there but decided "it wasn't a nice thing to do".

With an incident like this happening to William and Kate, it also showed us what kind of stuff they're made of. We that follow this couple have seen them carry on completing a very successful Jubilee tour. We've seen them take legal action. With them doing so and saying "This is not acceptable", perhaps it will make a difference in the future. Maybe not. Time will only tell.

All of this sure makes me realize that one thing I do not ever want in my life is 15 minutes of fame let alone a lifetime of it. Perhaps I can sell my 15 minutes on Ebay to someone? :D
 
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Every single piece of legal advice to hand insists that the photographs were in breach civil and criminal law. This is the only yardstick by which the photos should be measured, not whether the Duchess was behaving like a 'future Queen', whatever that's supposed to mean. Who is anyone of us to determine what that is?

The Cambridges were well within their rights to assume total privacy; there was no reason for her to be 'more careful', nor any for William to be wary. Those who know the area, the house and the road all say that it is actually impossible to even clearly discern the terrace from the road, much less see anyone on it. Claims that they were visible from a public road are risible and a poor attempt to exonerate the scurrilous magazine and photographer. More, as anyone in a loving relationship will tell you, relaxing sans clothes is far from being unusual. What is unusual is that someone in a trusted position broke that trust and alerted the media for pecuniary advantage. It is likely that this person or persons are already known, and together with the actual photographer,(who MI6 will surely find if it needs to), will face criminal charges. One hopes that they will have to spend their entire ill-gotten gains on their legal defence.

Pursuing this matter has given warning to all that the Duke is not a pushover and that he will act whenever the line of common decency is crossed. Magazines which indulge in gutter tactics might only receive small fines but their costs in fighting legal cases will be astronomical and given the financial strains that they all seem to suffering, they can't possibly hope to match the immense resources of the Duke's family. I understand that injunctions against Google were considered and that may still be the case in future if the criminality of this magazine editor and photographer is confirmed in a French court of law.

It seems as if we are again in a time of unprecedented struggle over the meaning and representation of women's bodies and the age-old distortion of sexuality. Controversy is swirling about the photos of the Duchess' breasts, and it has been suggested by more than one observer that by targeting her in this way it was assumed she could possibly be intimidated on multiple other levels in future. In this hyper-sexualised world in which porn is available 24/7 it is not Catherine's nudity - or discussion about her breasts - that is scandalous. No, this was an organised, blatant attempt to commodifiy her body and sexuality in a spectacular and demeaning way and offer it for consumption in a faux santized, corporatised format. The real scandal, so far as much of the misogynist or ignorant and unenlighted world is concerned is that the Duchess, like all educated and intelligent women, refuses to accept the media's exploitation and is demanding ownership of her own body and image. And good for her. Behind that charming smile, elegant facade and pretty face is a woman of real strength of character.
 
Come on, Lumtqueen..you are going to discuss your mom's fashion with your family, friends and relatives..you are not going to argue about it with some virtual stranger from another continent..thats the difference..Though I just made it as a passing reference, I stick by it..And I told you that its mostly the people who are not aware of constitutional and charity aspect that consider them as celebrities..
 
Thanks Osipi..And your views are similar to mine..Its just an inevitable accident..And this is what they are going to do for the rest of their lives (let hell may fall on them)--CARRY ONNNN

"All of this sure makes me realize that one thing I do not ever want in my life is 15 minutes of fame let alone a lifetime of it. Perhaps I can sell my 15 minutes on Ebay to someone? :D[/QUOTE]"

Here u cant Osipi..you are just born to be that..:lol:
 
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I think the term "public figures" are a better description for William & Kate than celebrity. William was born into his position and Kate had a difficult choice marry him and give up your freedom or keep your freedom and don't marry the man you love.

I don't understand the need for 20+ page spreads of the pictures, after the curosity of seeing one picture why do you need 20 more pages of the same thing.
 
Kate Middleton topless photos: Police probe staff at Viscount Linley's French chateau | Mail Online

I have always suspected that it was someone on the 'inside' that tipped off this peeping tom photographer. Just my opinion.


So even if those pics hadn't been taken Kate was still stripping off in view of (one would hope for safety reasons) her bodyguards and taking a very big risk of staff in the villa seeing her. This idiot has probably cost certain people their job due to her irresponsible exhibitionism and I say irresponsible because she should have known, for all sorts of valid reasons, not to have done what she did.
 
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So even if those pics hadn't been taken Kate was still been stripping off in view of (one would hope for safety reasons) her bodyguards and taking a very big risk of staff in the villa seeing her. This idiot has probably cost certain people their job due to her irresponsible exhibitionism and I say irresponsible because she should have known, for all sorts of valid reasons, not to have done what she did.

Every residence has private areas. Why do you think that William and Catherine were having 'private time' in front of staff and bodyguards??

And as far as 'irresponsible exhibitionism' , I won't dignify that with a response.

Edit: People forget that William wasn't exactly fully clothed. It is a large estate, I'm sure the staff were busy doing whatever staff do.
 
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Every residence has private areas. Why do you think that William and Catherine were having 'private time' in front of staff and bodyguards??

And as far as 'irresponsible exhibitionism' , I won't dignify that with a response.

So how do their detectives protect them if they can't see them?
 
So how do their detectives protect them if they can't see them?


Even HM and the Duke have private areas of BP where they can be alone.

I don't think protection officers have to be standing over W&C to ensure they are protected.
 
The whole point of servants is that they fade into the background but I am sure it would not be the first time a servant has seen a nude or semi nude royal. If the staff at the Linley estate are French I doubt they would even bat an eye at seeing a woman sunning herself topless.
 
I strongly doubt that W&K (or HM&DoE) engage in sexual situations or are deliberately nude in the presence of security or housekeeping. To suggest such is quite crude.

Although it is certainly possible that housekeeping has seen something- I'm pretty sure my occasional housekeeper has never seen us naked, though! (hope not, anyway)
 
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I strongly doubt that W&K (or HM&DoE) engage in sexual situations or are nude in the presence of security or housekeeping. To suggest such is quite crude.

I don't think I was suggesting staff watch them having sex but I would be very surprised that household staff had never encountered a royal in the buff. Sunbathing topless is hardly a sexual act. Now I am not suggesting they are as brazen as Winston Churchill and walk about in the nude, but it does stand to reason that staff who come into your bedroom in the morning to draw open the curtains or run a bath or help with your clothing might have seen you undressed. Hardly a big deal.
 
I'm probably more conservative than most, but I never would have considered going topless while in the vicinity of our servants.

While my sympathies all completely on William and Kate's side and I considered the publication of the photographies a gross invasion of privacy that must not go unpunished, I'd like to point out a couple of points (all my opinion and point of view):

1. The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge are the most famous couple in the world. More famous than Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, David and Victoria Beckham or any other "super couple". They know they are followed 24/7 and have to be more careful. At all times. Even when they think they are safe from prying eyes. The topless pictures were top news even in Armenia for several days - and we report news on royalty not more than once a year.

2. The reality is that they can trust very limited number of people, and certainly cannot rely on the discretion of photographers. Harry's recent Vegas adventure should have taught them a lesson or two as well. They should have considered the possibility that one of the stuff might take and sell pictures, no matter what sort of confidentiality agreements had been signed. And while the sympathies of people appear to be firmly on their side right now, the unfortunate pictures will always be there for anyone to see if a simple Google search is made.

3. William and Kate should be more careful about the number of holidays they take, regardless of their length or whether they really, really need them. If I'm not mistaken, at the time they were in France the Paralympic Games were taking place in London. I remember a couple of articles stating they made few Paralympic appearances because they were preparing for their upcoming tour: the revelation they were enjoying another holiday will not bode will with the British people, especially long-term.
 
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