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  #901  
Old 09-25-2012, 08:41 PM
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Making an enemy of the press is not a smart move from people who need the press to stay relevant. This debacle was blown out of proportion by someone with a very fragile ego.
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  #902  
Old 09-25-2012, 09:10 PM
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Here's an excellent article from the PressGazette. I encourage everyone to read it. Since the beginning of this scandal, we mostly heard the Anglo-Saxon point of view. It's interesting to hear another point of view and quite refreshing to read (it's neutral) after such a big deal was made.

Why is Kate any different to Carla Bruni or DSK? | PressGazette
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  #903  
Old 09-25-2012, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Chimene View Post
Making an enemy of the press is not a smart move from people who need the press to stay relevant. This debacle was blown out of proportion by someone with a very fragile ego.
A fragile ego?? William watched his mother get harassed daily by the press and has good reason to believe they contributed to her death. A fragile psyche maybe, but not ego.
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  #904  
Old 09-25-2012, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by lancchick View Post
I think you're over reaching with your argument. This isn't about a woman's right to exhibit her sexuality. We don't know why Kate took her top off; sunbathing, because William asked her to, etc. This is all speculation. I think it's simply if you don't want your image splashed around the world, don't do something that will cause the splash.

To turn this pretty simplistic situation into one of, "women will be punished unless the feed into the lies of the patriarchy" is ridiculous.
I'm sorry but your last sentence simply makes no sense to me, on several levels.
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  #905  
Old 09-25-2012, 09:31 PM
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While William, who is known for his short temper, has succeeded in forcing the French magazine to relinquish the pictures, his reaction has helped to attract further interest in them from around the world. Now that the unseemly matter has been turned into a “scandal”, the going rate for intrusive photographs of our future queen will, surely, only increase.
Duchess of Cambridge’s topless pictures: the naked truth - Telegraph

I have to admit that I agree with this. Sure, the two had a right to sue, but it did increase attention on the photos. And who's to say the intrusion won't stop?

William reportedly has an arrogant streak, and he may think he can get what he wants, but that may not always be the case. The Duke might've stirred up a hornet's nest with this.

I can't help but say that William needs to make peace with the paparazzi. Yes, they are intrusive and they did hound his mother, but she used them at times for her own benefit - especially when she frolicked with Dodi in the weeks before her death in the Mediterranean. Hey, even Catherine took advantage of the paparazzi during their break up in 2007 to let William know she was doing fine without him.

I think William needs to realize that it is the public that drives the media and the paparazzi, not them alone. There are millions who want to know every detail of his and his wife's lives, and they hunger for photos and gossip. Of course if I were William, realizing I am in the position to serve the people who only see me something to gossip about, examine and judge, etc., will drive me absolutely insane. The crowds who gather to see him and Catherine at engagements will also buy tabloids and look online to find out where they are today and what they are doing (people do that on Twitter). Those people who praise them and say they admire them will also want to know every detail of their lives, and even bodies. I could sense paranoia growing on someone in this position.

I may be rambling here and not making much sense, but I believe William needs to look hard at his situation and position, and face reality - in all its facets.
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  #906  
Old 09-25-2012, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Chimene View Post
Making an enemy of the press is not a smart move from people who need the press to stay relevant. This debacle was blown out of proportion by someone with a very fragile ego.

This argument is flawed, in my opinion, from every angle.

First - he did not make an enemy of the press. He sued a tabloid. Do you think Christiane Amanpour, as an example of a quality journalist, feels she has made an enemy or that a salvo has been fired across HER bow? I suspect she's clapping, as any worthwhile member of the press is. They (William and Catherine) proved after the fact they were not angry with all press - coverage of the tour went on unchanged ... good journalists don't want this crap any more than we do. Fact.

This takes some wind from your second point. But they do not need the press to stay relevant. No denying the press have their place in the dissemination of their work/activity details - but they are relevant because they are part of the system of government in place in their country. They are relevant by history, by tradition and by law. You give the press a power they don't have.

My third point is the term "debacle" and the wording that frames it. You provide an object lesson in why something needs to be done. The debacle is, in my opinion, opinions such as yours, not the fact of the crime and the response to it. It has not been blown out of proportion - it has been swept under the collective social carpet. Goodness, now we're blaming victims when they have the nerve to report the crime and demand justice.

Since when has been standing up for right the sign of a fragile ego? In fact, I suspect it's the opposite. A fragile ego would have dealt with it differently. It was decisive, rational and handled at a distance. It was a normal response to a sense of violation.
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  #907  
Old 09-25-2012, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Sonjapearl View Post
I can't help but say that William needs to make peace with the paparazzi.
Hands down the most disturbing thing I have heard here.
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  #908  
Old 09-25-2012, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Catherine J View Post
Hands down the most disturbing thing I have heard here.
OK, maybe I worded that wrong. But he needs to accept that they will always come after him, his wife and even his children. Accepting does not mean sitting back and allowing it to happen.

Also, I believe Felipe and Letizia once complained that everyday people use cell phones to photograph their daughters when the family is out shopping or at a restaurant. Everyone is paparazzi these days.

Its really a no win situation, I think. Its the public that needs to stop being intrusive. Like that poll I posted a few pages back said, while many Brits support the Duke's decision to sue, about 15% of Brits admit to checking out Catherine's photos online. How many others peeked but won't admit to it.

Maybe royals should start telling the public to give them some space, but that may not go over well, won't it?
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  #909  
Old 09-25-2012, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Chimene View Post
Making an enemy of the press is not a smart move from people who need the press to stay relevant. This debacle was blown out of proportion by someone with a very fragile ego.
I sense projection.

The press never agrees on anything, and there's no way to make an "enemy" of them (us, in my case). They will always want to cover stories that sell. William and Kate have only invasion of privacy to fear, not press irrelevancy.

Your view that the press is an entity of which one can make an enemy has no foundation in fact, in any era.
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  #910  
Old 09-25-2012, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Chimene View Post
Making an enemy of the press is not a smart move from people who need the press to stay relevant. This debacle was blown out of proportion by someone with a very fragile ego.
To which person with a fragile ego do you refer? Wondering...
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  #911  
Old 09-25-2012, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Sonjapearl View Post
OK, maybe I worded that wrong. But he needs to accept that they will always come after him, his wife and even his children. Accepting does not mean sitting back and allowing it to happen.

Also, I believe Felipe and Letizia once complained that everyday people use cell phones to photograph their daughters when the family is out shopping or at a restaurant. Everyone is paparazzi these days.

Its really a no win situation, I think. Its the public that needs to stop being intrusive. Like that poll I posted a few pages back said, while many Brits support the Duke's decision to sue, about 15% of Brits admit to checking out Catherine's photos online. How many others peeked but won't admit to it.

Maybe royals should start telling the public to give them some space, but that may not go over well, won't it?
They don't need to say anything to the public. That's counter-productive to protecting a private life.

They do get to use the same laws as the rest of us, thank goodness (Malibu has quite strict laws modeled on the French laws and quite frankly, since it is a much smaller place, this has resulted in a great reduction of total number of paps, and intrusiveness of their behavior).

I do agree that we, the people, need to stop looking at invasions of privacy, just as we would avert our eyes if someone in our presence had a embarrassing wardrobe malfunction.
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  #912  
Old 09-25-2012, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Sonjapearl View Post
OK, maybe I worded that wrong. But he needs to accept that they will always come after him, his wife and even his children. Accepting does not mean sitting back and allowing it to happen.
Fair enough.

Can you elaborate what "accepting" means in context?

I happen to disagree. It's like the quote I posted a few posts back, it takes a person who expects the world to adapt to him, an unreasonable man, to create progress. If we can agree that something needs to change, that we need progress, I think the one thing William should not do, is accept anything of the sort.
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  #913  
Old 09-25-2012, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by PrincessKaimi View Post
I sense projection.

The press never agrees on anything, and there's no way to make an "enemy" of them (us, in my case). They will always want to cover stories that sell. William and Kate have only invasion of privacy to fear, not press irrelevancy.

Your view that the press is an entity of which one can make an enemy has no foundation in fact, in any era.

Right you are. I work in the media and the last time any number of my colleagues and I got together we couldn't agree on the wall color, let alone establishing a cabal of *any* sort.
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  #914  
Old 09-25-2012, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Catherine J View Post
Fair enough.

Can you elaborate what "accepting" means in context?

I happen to disagree. It's like the quote I posted a few posts back, it takes a person who expects the world to adapt to him, an unreasonable man, to create progress. If we can agree that something needs to change, that we need progress, I think the one thing William should not do, is accept anything of the sort.
I get the impression he gets upset when the paps are around when he's out in public on a non-engagement event. While its a normal reaction, shouldn't he be aware by now they will always be around - especially since he's married and the world wants to know about him and his wife?

But like I said, and I'm realizing this more as I think about it, its the public that needs to let those two have some space. And the way our society is, with people tweeting "I see Kate at Starbucks right now!" or consuming gossip at records rates, I think this intrusion won't end and may get worse. I don't know how exactly, but by saying that makes it sound scary.

It will take a lot for our society to say "enough!" to gossip and photos, like massive soul searching.
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  #915  
Old 09-25-2012, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Sonjapearl View Post
I get the impression he gets upset when the paps are around when he's out in public on a non-engagement event. While its a normal reaction, shouldn't he be aware by now they will always be around - especially since he's married and the world wants to know about him and his wife?

But like I said, and I'm realizing this more as I think about it, its the public that needs to let those two have some space. And the way our society is, with people tweeting "I see Kate at Starbucks right now!" or consuming gossip at records rates, I think this intrusion won't end and may get worse. I don't know how exactly, but by saying that makes it sound scary.

It will take a lot for our society to say "enough!" to gossip and photos, like massive soul searching.

Yeah.

You know what? I have massive respect for this:
Quote:
...I think this intrusion won't end and may get worse. I don't know how exactly, but by saying that makes it sound scary.
It's as true a thing as I have ever heard. And yes, I agree. Scares the bejeebers out of me, too.
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  #916  
Old 09-25-2012, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
TBH, if it was me and I was that far off of a distance that the only way I'd be photographed with my top off was by someone blatantly invading my privacy (regardless if I was Queen of the World or just Mrs. Joe Schmoe), I would assume that I had absolute privacy from prying eyes. I cannot in any way blame either Will or Kate for assuming that they had total privacy and that it wouldn't be breached. As it stands, it was not only a breach of privacy by law but also by common decency of the photographer. I do hope that they do prosecute to the full extent of the law on criminal charges in this matter.

When we really think about it, anyone can get a picture of anyone anywhere if they really wanted to and had the means. If a license plate can be photographed by a satellite, the technology is out there to grab a photo of bare breast from space. As our technology advances, perhaps its time to really draw the line of just what will be tolerated and what will not.
Brilliant, Osipi.

Everyone - not just royals - is subject to all manner of invasion of privacy, identity theft, and so on. We have to draw the line somewhere. Right now, where I live, anything I do outside my house is fair game, publicly. I know that (in both places where I live). I will not give up my freedoms just because some people believe legal = right. The two are not equivalent.

It is simply wrong to invade someone's private space. In the case of William and Kate, it was private property, clearly marked, and well set back from any ordinary view. Unless we expect all people to eventually hide like moles or be invaded by their neighbors, we had best get used to public nudity, starting with the most famous first.

In this case, fighting back against the paps, in a nation that has good laws against them, is the sane thing to do. Giving up freedom to lawbreaks and the unethical means they win.
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  #917  
Old 09-25-2012, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Catherine J View Post
Yeah.

You know what? I have massive respect for this:


It's as true a thing as I have ever heard. And yes, I agree. Scares the bejeebers out of me, too.
With the way technology and social media is today, you never know what app or whatever will be thought up. Did we really envision the iPhone 7 years ago?

Its sad to say, but people like William and Catherine don't exactly live in a fishbowl anymore. They live like the Truman Show, only they know what's going on and they can't escape it.
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  #918  
Old 09-25-2012, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Chimene View Post
Making an enemy of the press is not a smart move from people who need the press to stay relevant. This debacle was blown out of proportion by someone with a very fragile ego.
Wow. He basically watched his mother be chased by these vultures, ultimately to her death (granted that she did use the said vultures to her advantage, I doubt at the time of the tragedy William cared about that aspect). he has every right to be wary of the tabloid press, and this recent incident definitely proved that his fears and precautions are founded. His ego is very likely stronger than we think, and he's trying to be as practical as possible, so that when there are children in the mix, they won't have to suffer the kind of scrutiny their paternal grandmother did.

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Originally Posted by COESpiral View Post
A fragile ego?? William watched his mother get harassed daily by the press and has good reason to believe they contributed to her death. A fragile psyche maybe, but not ego.
Completely agree with you. I think he's probably traumatized by those events to this day (and one cannot blame him either).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonjapearl View Post
With the way technology and social media is today, you never know what app or whatever will be thought up. Did we really envision the iPhone 7 years ago?

Its sad to say, but people like William and Catherine don't exactly live in a fishbowl anymore. They live like the Truman Show, only they know what's going on and they can't escape it.
This creeps me out just a tad. I know it's true, because no one is safe from any sort of intrusion any longer (my bank account was hacked into without me having given out any information to anyone), especially with the technology and social media we have available. Any public figure has to deal with the fact, and I'd imagine it's a pleasant one. I really do feel for these two, and I feel that they're taking the right course of action.
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  #919  
Old 09-25-2012, 11:09 PM
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Daria S - completely agree agree about Wills. He may not be completely traumatized - but he clearly understands the media can become an uncontrolled beast and he wants to do what he can to not let that happen again. He has paid a price no one should have to.

While he cannot control them, he can use the same means his granny has used to let them know "we are not amused." He cannot control them, but he can influence them and reign them in. He and his protectors can also help his family make wise personal choices.

This will, eventually blow over. I hope we all learn from the incident and become better people.
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  #920  
Old 09-25-2012, 11:57 PM
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A very good point here, Polly.

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Originally Posted by Polly View Post
A not too subtle example of this was Closure's commercial imperatives in publishing those photos, knowing that large numbers of people would buy a magazine that they usually wouldn't touch, for the pleasure of participating in the sexual humiliation of an attractive, famous woman. These readers were all aware that the photos were taken without Catherine's knowledge or consent, and that she did not want them published, but that only added to the titillation and fleeting sense of power they got from looking at them.
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