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  #801  
Old 09-22-2012, 08:35 PM
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Look, until the "voyouers" stop buying this crap, they are fair game. You have celebrity you are open to the press. If you are "wise" you make sure of your real privacy. Otherwise, you never put yourself in a compromising position. The price of fame is very great, you get great rewards and you pay a great price. Why would you have to remove your top, knowing what we do today about sun exposure. It is foolhardy. Also, on top, like me, she is nothing particularly special, it is just a large sound over nothing.
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  #802  
Old 09-22-2012, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
Also, on top, like me, she is nothing particularly special, it is just a large sound over nothing.

What??? Wha ...... that appears on its surface to be an incredibly sexist comment. Perhaps I misunderstand.

Please clarify for me. So, if she was large-breasted, it would be a different matter?

In my mind, it's not about the breasts at all. Not even remotely. And to speculate that it's much ado about nothing in the context you have is very crude and the sort of thing the rags are saying.
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  #803  
Old 09-22-2012, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Catherine J View Post
What??? Wha ...... that appears on its surface to be an incredibly sexist comment. Perhaps I misunderstand.

Please clarify for me. So, if she was large-breasted, it would be a different matter?

In my mind, it's not about the breasts at all. Not even remotely. And to speculate that it's much ado about nothing in the context you have is very crude and the sort of thing the rags are saying.
You are right, but, usually, it is about size, unfortunately. The "rags" are the "rags", as you call, them, and I have never purchsed one, but many, disgustingly, do. If it were not for her "celebrity", they wouldn't have wasted their time, because, no man would have bothered looking at them. She is stunning,. but not voluptuous and men..... It is sexist. Men are what they are, they would only sell to some dubious few. What is worse, I think women, also, buy crap like this when it is someone famous. Frankly, I don't care what they look like underneath their clothing. I thought Harry's stuff was purile.
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  #804  
Old 09-22-2012, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine
A nice golden allover tan does look much better and sexier than a pasty white body though.
Apologies for going off-topic, but "a pasty white body" is definitely sexier than a body covered with horrible scars from skin cancer removal. (And I speak from personal experience with family members.)
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  #805  
Old 09-22-2012, 10:42 PM
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Whew! Countess. Calm down. You are right in that being a celebrity makes you a target for the media. They are who they are and there is no going back but, there is also the private side of these two. They should be able to go on a holiday to a private estate and enjoy the time they have together without the media hiding in the bushes and invading the only private time they do have. Granted, she took her top off to sunbathe I know but, they should not have to be thinking that oh god, we better behave ourselves in this private setting because someone might be in the bushes 100 yards away possibly taking our pictures. Its just not right. If they are on an island in obvious full view then there arent any rules but come on, there has to be a line drawn somewhere, dont you think? When they are in the public eye, they are fair game but, when they are in an intimate setting trying to enjoy some peace and quiet and eachother, they should be off limits. Just my opinion.
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  #806  
Old 09-23-2012, 12:08 AM
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There is nothing wrong with being pale or having a nice glow, stop trying to convince people one is better than the other.
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  #807  
Old 09-23-2012, 12:44 AM
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That this debate continues to flourish around the periphery of the real issues of this regrettable incident suprises me. There are two salient points: in a secluded, pirvate house, far enough distant from a public road as to be hard to see clearly or properly, a married couple had their privacy invaded by, allegedly, a criminal act. Secondly, a woman of some celebrity was deliberately stalked to enable some people to make money from her humiliation. The rest is persiflage and not to be taken seriously. Considerations such as the size or shape of the Duchess' breasts or the colour of her skin are nothing to the purpose.

We have seen a spokesman for Closure maintain that the photos are by no means degrading and show a beautiful, in love, modern holidaying young couple, in their normal life. I would love a photo of my bollocks to be taken in secret, printed in a magazine and viewed by millions of people across the country, he did NOT add. Women, we should remember, do not get to define their own reality or have the last say on their own feelings or experiences. Catherine, making clear that she considered the photos degrading was not deemed relevant because some man decided that they were not. Closers female editor has also described the photos as not in the least shocking, using that classic tactic of wheeling out a woman to defend misogyny, a gay person to defend homophobia or a black person to defend racism.

Already there are claims that these photos are on Creepshots and similar ugly sites for perverts, including those given to Revenge Porn. One of those engaged in researching possible legal routes for victims of these despicable sites is Professor Mary Anne Franks, associate professor of law at the University of Miami. "What unites Creepshots, the Middleton photographs, the revenge porn websites," says Franks, "is that they all feature the same fetishisation of non-consensual sexual activity with women who either you don't have any access to, or have been denied future access to. And it's really this product of rage and entitlement."

Franks finds it interesting and bewildering that the response to these situations is so often to blame the woman involved. The argument goes: "'You shouldn't have given those pictures to that person', or 'You shouldn't have been sunbathing in a private residence', or 'You should never, as a woman, take off your clothes in any context where anybody could possibly ever have a camera'. That's been shocking to me, that people aren't just outraged and furious about this, but they're actually making excuses for this behaviour, and blaming women for ever being sexual any time, at all.

"Even in a completely private setting, within a marriage it couldn't be any more innocuous than the Middleton situation and yet people are still saying things like: what was she expecting, she's famous and she's got breasts, and therefore she's got to keep them covered up all the time. I do think it's a rage against women being sexual on their own terms. We're perfectly fine with women being sexual, as long as they are objects and they're passive, and we can turn them on, turn them off, download them, delete them, whatever it is. But as soon as it's women who want to have any kind of exclusionary rights about their intimacy, we hate that. We say, 'No, we're going to make a whore out of you'."

Women everywhere, from every walk of life, should be insulted and angry at this egregious violation. Every man or boy in my life is, too, on the Duchess' behalf.
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  #808  
Old 09-23-2012, 01:02 AM
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Bravo!!
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  #809  
Old 09-23-2012, 02:59 AM
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I hate when people quote entire long posts just to give a one word reply so I will not do it.
But Polly you are entirely right! There aren't enough emoticons in the world that I can give you right now.
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  #810  
Old 09-23-2012, 04:15 AM
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Thanks Polly - very much to the point!!!
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  #811  
Old 09-23-2012, 06:28 AM
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Thank You Thank You Polly!!!! It shocked me how internalized mysoginist attitudes are by women.We don't even realise where they come from. This entire thing just made me sad for women and feel beyond violated for Catherine.
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  #812  
Old 09-23-2012, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polly View Post

We have seen a spokesman for Closure maintain that the photos “are by no means degrading” and “show a beautiful, in love, modern holidaying young couple, in their normal life.” “I would love a photo of my bollocks to be taken in secret, printed in a magazine and viewed by millions of people across the country,” he did NOT add.
Your whole post was brilliant, Polly, but I must admit that this bit made me chuckle!

It is incredibly sad to see other women, on this site and elsewhere, go down the 'it's her own fault' line. How can we expect and demand that men face up to the misogyny that women encounter on a daily basis, when as women we positively revel (in a very gleeful, sneering way) in taking part in that sort of behaviour ourselves.
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  #813  
Old 09-23-2012, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polly View Post
Franks finds it interesting and bewildering that the response to these situations is so often to blame the woman involved. The argument goes: "'You shouldn't have given those pictures to that person', or 'You shouldn't have been sunbathing in a private residence', or 'You should never, as a woman, take off your clothes in any context where anybody could possibly ever have a camera'. That's been shocking to me, that people aren't just outraged and furious about this, but they're actually making excuses for this behaviour, and blaming women for ever being sexual any time, at all.
...

Women everywhere, from every walk of life, should be insulted and angry at this egregious violation. Every man or boy in my life is, too, on the Duchess' behalf.

Spot on.

Excellent post. Thanks for making it.
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  #814  
Old 09-23-2012, 10:43 AM
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Duchess finds her feet

Naked check helps Duchess of Cambridge find her feet | Columnists | Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express

A YouGov poll last week found overwhelming support for the future Queen among the British public, with 82 per cent agreeing it was wrong for the topless photographs to have been published and 72 per cent thinking the Royal Family was right to sue.
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  #815  
Old 09-23-2012, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl View Post
Naked check helps Duchess of Cambridge find her feet | Columnists | Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express

A YouGov poll last week found overwhelming support for the future Queen among the British public, with 82 per cent agreeing it was wrong for the topless photographs to have been published and 72 per cent thinking the Royal Family was right to sue.
Yeah, in the trial by fire department I say it's William and Catherine, 1, a**hat media and related lowlife readers, 0. My respect for them was greatly enhanced over this, actually. I have become rather dogmatically opposed to all forms of blaming them and hope they do not see it as a lesson learned in that regard and continue to be able to have joyful and loving private moments together, and damn the potential torpedos disguised as super lenses.

The bullies win when you become afraid of them. And they win when you try to outbully them. The smart money in the long race goes to the steady horse who does not let the race run him. Always has, always will.

I think their response was strong enough to show strength but not so strong that it triggered an escalation. You can NOT walk over us unimpeded, but you can NOT throw us off our game, either.

/steps off soapbx
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  #816  
Old 09-23-2012, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catherine J View Post
You can NOT walk over us unimpeded, but you can NOT throw us off our game, either.
Although it seems like the only outward sign of any of this media bullying may have been William's thundercloud scowls that were noticed on their recent Jubilee tour, I really have to hand it to the two of them due to the simple fact that I don't think there's been one quote attributed to either William or Kate concerning this matter. The fact that they both refused to feed into the media frenzy shows depth of character.

It doesn't surprise me one bit that a poll would should show overwhelming support. It lets us know that there still is a sense of common decency in this world.
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  #817  
Old 09-23-2012, 02:00 PM
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Let me join the chorus and thank Polly for a fantastic post. Thank you.
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  #818  
Old 09-23-2012, 04:32 PM
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I want to thank Polly for a very well-written post, but also point out that Prof. Franks work is important. It is important for all of us to do what we can (even if it's just posting on the internet) to maintain the view that there is a right to privacy (some people don't think it exists, I think it is inherent in our species that we expect and maintain a degree of privacy which is individual to the person).

Writing Federal lawmakers in the U.S. to strengthen privacy laws in line with what some local communities have done is something we all can do.
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  #819  
Old 09-23-2012, 04:41 PM
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Excellent post, Polly. Thank you for taking the time to make that point!
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  #820  
Old 09-23-2012, 05:00 PM
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Polly, what a fabulous post! Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I'm in complete agreement with you.

I found this article on my fb page earlier today, and thought I'd share it on here.

William the protector: Duke and Duchess of Cambridge's decision to sue over topless pictures - Telegraph

I think the couple made the right decision to take legal actions, because what was done was disgusting and indeed criminal. No one should have to worry about being spied on in the privacy of one's own home (or a vacation home that was given for use), or be blamed for having that privacy invaded by someone who is a pervert and a gold-digger. No one deserves to be degraded and humiliated in this manner.
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