Catherine & William: 'Closer' Magazine and Breach of Privacy - September 2012


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The photos have long lost any 'shock' value they may have had. The British public understand the context which these photos were taken and have rightly sided overwhelmingly with William and Catherine.
 
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I generally prefer to lurk, but I noticed on another site that all comments supporting Kate were rated negative while those blaming her were rate positive. It was so obvious that commentors started talking about who would go out of there way to make it seem like Kate had no support when she overwhelming she does.
 
:previous: When the general public are asked if they support W&C, they overwhelmingly say yes. Comments from tabloids and less than reputable royalty sites are manly from trolls.
 
have rightly sided overwhelmingly with William and Catherine.

I don't think they have 'sided' with them in anyway. The press would LOVE to publish these pictures, look at The Sun who published the picture of Henry a month or so back. They don't publish them because they know the public will freak and the royal family will go into shutdown mode. It's not about siding with anyone, it's about making an educated decision. Continued readership or hatred of the nation? :whistling:
 
I don't think they have 'sided' with them in anyway. The press would LOVE to publish these pictures, look at The Sun who published the picture of Henry a month or so back. They don't publish them because they know the public will freak and the royal family will go into shutdown mode. It's not about siding with anyone, it's about making an educated decision. Continued readership or hatred of the nation? :whistling:

I mean the public have sided with W&C
 
Tad dramatic aren't we? This 'scandal' doesn't even make it into the top 10 as far as the Windsors are concerned.

Ouch, that was harsh. I was putting myself in the Duchess' shoes and I knew if I were her, I would be mortified to go out in public. I still would go out, though, but it would be very awkward for me. Maybe its awkward for her but she hides it very well.
 
Ouch, that was harsh. I was putting myself in the Duchess' shoes and I knew if I were her, I would be mortified to go out in public. I still would go out, though, but it would be very awkward for me. Maybe its awkward for her but she hides it very well.

Catherine has nothing to be ashamed about though
 
Catherine has nothing to be ashamed about though

I never said she should be ashamed for sunbathing topless/bottomless. I've made it clear that I see nothing wrong about sunbathing au natural pages ago. Its just for me personally, I would be embarrassed knowing that people I pass by on the streets know what I look like naked, no matter what my body looks like.
 
New intrusion of Kate's privacy as bottomless pictures of Duchess are published by Danish magazine

While there was previously an overwhelming support for the Duchess, the top-rated comments on this article suggest a slight shift in public opinion.

I saw this earlier and, honestly, IMO, these are just the same old nasty, resentful people coming out in force. Spouting the same old grievances ... William should not have married her, she is common, she shouldn't be Queen, she is an exhibitionist, ad infinitum. I don't don't if these are just the usual "mean girls/boys" or a bunch of adolescent nasties, but they were out in force very early this a.m. The comments were even red arrowing those people who were reasonable and making negative comments about the paps. I doubt that most of the population would agree with their sentiments.
 
Obviously Catherine has 'moved on'. She was at the wedding of a friend today and photographed many times.
 
Agreed. There's a growing feeling of resentment toward people at "the top." There seems to be more and more glee evinced when the rich and/or powerful and/or famous are exposed and shamed. Even if nothing has actually been done wrong, their supposed failings get raked over by the media and those who comment on the media. What's forgotten is that these "top" people are persons, with human desires, fears, and relationships. I sometimes think that the world, as perceived by those of us who watch culture, is becoming increasingly divided into "them" and "us." The "us" being the oh-so-real "ordinary" people and the "them" being the famous/rich/powerful who obviously are somewhat less "real" than us because of what they've achieved or inherited or married into and therefore deserve to be treated with less real respect than the person met in the shop, workplace, or street. If a person is a public figure, they're perceived as having too many privileges; and so therefore they must be "unprivileged" in another way by the "real" people. I think that the commentators on the Daily Mail are an example of this. There's horrid resentment there toward anyone who has a place in society or else where in the public eye. That's the way I see this, anyway.



Bah. All through history societies have failed to recognize the biggest threats to them until it was too late. Things creep up... If the basic human right to privacy is no longer held in esteem for the British Royal Family, and in particular those who will be its future King and Queen, then it's a little like the last man standing is wobbling, don't you think?
 
Agreed. There's a growing feeling of resentment toward people at "the top." There seems to be more and more glee evinced when the rich and/or powerful and/or famous are exposed and shamed. Even if nothing has actually been done wrong, their supposed failings get raked over by the media and those who comment on the media. What's forgotten is that these "top" people are persons, with human desires, fears, and relationships. I sometimes think that the world, as perceived by those of us who watch culture, is becoming increasingly divided into "them" and "us." The "us" being the oh-so-real "ordinary" people and the "them" being the famous/rich/powerful who obviously are somewhat less "real" than us because of what they've achieved or inherited or married into and therefore deserve to be treated with less real respect than the person met in the shop, workplace, or street. If a person is a public figure, they're perceived as having too many privileges; and so therefore they must be "unprivileged" in another way by the "real" people. I think that the commentators on the Daily Mail are an example of this. There's horrid resentment there toward anyone who has a place in society or else where in the public eye. That's the way I see this, anyway.

:previous: I would agree, however I don't think it is anything new. I think it is just the increased opportunities to openly resent and bad mouth, i.e., the internet. I do think maybe there is an increased nastiness in general, however. In previous years people had to go to the trouble of writing a "letter to the editor" and most people were too lazy, now it's easy to sit down at the computer and spew the hatefulness.
 
Yes, it's so much easier now for people to be hateful. A letter to the editor always required a real name, for example. There are so many more opportunities out there to smear people. I fear though that this sort of thing is becoming normalized. There is less respect for social structure and authority in general. There is anarchy out there that's becoming louder and more organized, and I believe that things like the publication of the Duchess's private moments are a symptom of it.

:previous: I would agree, however I don't think it is anything new. I think it is just the increased opportunities to openly resent and bad mouth, i.e., the internet. I do think maybe there is an increased nastiness in general, however. In previous years people had to go to the trouble of writing a "letter to the editor" and most people were too lazy, now it's easy to sit down at the computer and spew the hatefulness.
 
^^Exactly. Sitting behind a computer screen allows people to remain very anonymous. Being somewhat cynical, I tend to believe society in general is not as genteel as years ago.
 
:previous: I don't think that's cynicism. I think that it's an accurate observation.
 
There is anarchy out there that's becoming louder and more organized, and I believe that things like the publication of the Duchess's private moments are a symptom of it.


Yeah.

And you will understand, I know, when I say it's the most frightening kind because this mob are a bunch of rebels without a cause. I mean, the anarchy and discontent is not because of any obvious thing such as political oppression or human rights/civil liberties violations ... it is more malaise turning to ennui. The most insidious thing of all: indifference.

If you're a history buff, most of the major civilizations suffered the very same thing before they fell. There are especially interesting correlations between the fall of the Roman Empire and the current trend of reality television and privacy invasion. Think gladiator games and other blood sports.
 
Look, she is a stunning young lady. She carries herself beautifully. She is a great asset to the family. I think what many are saying is that these things, unfortunately, happen, today. If they felt suing was the correct thing to do, then it was. But , it is time to let it die its own death. And for them, it will be good. And when I said she will have worse, she will, also, unfortunately, but life is full of ups and downs. You just have to go forward, with your head high.
 
... But , it is time to let it die its own death.


Said it before and I will say it again, as politely as I can.

Please stop telling me/us when it is time to stop talking. I am finding it bothersome.

Some of us, myself included, do not see this as an isolated and unfortunate incident that we just have to take in stride and move along from. Some of see it as a bit a harbinger ... another pillar of society eroding. It *is* a big deal because it's one of the first symptoms of an internal disease. Now, you may be fine ignoring all the rashes that arise on society's body, hoping they will go away if you just don't pick at them, but some of us are not and we like to discuss such things to arrive at an understanding. Maybe with enough understanding we can effect positive change. See?

So, again, please, for the love of good manners, stop repeating that it is time to move along. Why don't *you* move along?
 
:previous: I would agree, however I don't think it is anything new. I think it is just the increased opportunities to openly resent and bad mouth, i.e., the internet. I do think maybe there is an increased nastiness in general, however. In previous years people had to go to the trouble of writing a "letter to the editor" and most people were too lazy, now it's easy to sit down at the computer and spew the hatefulness.

Mostly agreed. I think it's a combination. The tendency to bitterness always existed but has been exacerbated by ease of communication and ability to be anonymous.

Amazing what people will say in writing, on the internet, from the anonymous chair, that they will NOT repeat out in the brick and mortar world.

The idea of anonymity, if I remember the halcyon days of the WWW, was to protect users from potential harassment and allow a wider degree of privacy, not to facilitate harassment and invade privacy.
 
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You know, I don't see why those who happen to have a different opinion should feel ashamed, inadequate or just "proven" to be wrong.

- Do I think the pictures, every single one of them, are gross invasion of Kate's (or any woman's) privacy? Yes, I do.
- Was it a private residence where William and Kate had the right to enjoy their privacy? Yes, it was.
- Did the incident cause considerable distress to William, Kate and their families? I should think so: no one deserves that kind of treatment.
- Did Kate and William show remarkably bad judgement? Yes, I strongly feel that to be the case.

I happen to think that no woman should change her bikini top and especially bottoms outside. Maybe it's old-fashioned and horribly un-feminist of me, but there you go. Forget about paparazzi, prying neighbours or perverts - what about the staff and/or security? Do not tell me they were naive enough to believe no one would be able to see them, especially since they are two of the most photographed people in the world. Like it or not, they can never be certain they are not followed, so why give the press such a field day? We are not talking about cuddles or sunbathing, it was full frontal nudity - a pretty damn bad idea even if you are Jane Doe and no one cares what you look like in the privacy of your own home or on a beach.

Just because I happen to like William and Kate doesn't mean I can't or shouldn't criticise them for what I personally believe to be a huge error of judgement. Those picture will always be there, they cannot be undone or forgotten.

Again, this is strictly my opinion. I don't expect others to agree with it but I'd rather not be slated for it either.
 
"Those picture will always be there, they cannot be undone or forgotten." So what? What's the message when people keep repeating this?
The Countess of Wessex's undercover NOTW tapes are 'out there' . The secret recordings between the Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall are 'out there'.
Lady Di's entire life is 'out there', etc etc...

Thank God most of the British public don't think like people on this thread.
 
...
- Did Kate and William show remarkably bad judgement? Yes, I strongly feel that to be the case.

I happen to think that no woman should change her bikini top and especially bottoms outside....


That's fair enough. I think you are not alone. I certainly have a tinge of that in my overall opinion as well. As you say, that is an aspect. I think it's perfectly reasonable to think they ought to have been more careful - and wished they had of been.

Which, to make clear, I am NOT equating with they got what they deserved and which seems evident is your position as well. It is not their fault and they did nothing *wrong*. Poor judgment, or an error in judgement is morally neutral in this context.

And as you also point out, the above notwithstanding, the invasion was wrong and we ought not to stand for it.

Both feelings can co-exist.
 
And as you also point out, the above notwithstanding, the invasion was wrong and we ought not to stand for it.

Both feelings can co-exist.

Indeed, both opinions and feelings can and apparently do co-exist. :)
And I certainly believe, as I have stated in all of my posts, that taking and publishing those pictures is a gross violation of privacy.
 
Tad dramatic aren't we? This 'scandal' doesn't even make it into the top 10 as far as the Windsors are concerned.

I'm sure if most everyone we encounter on a daily basis had seen us naked the last thing we would think about is where the incident ranks among bad things that have happened to people in our families in the past. This is still fresh plus there have been hints that there are even more intimate pictures. I don't think it's dramatic to say that Catherine is embarrassed.
 
Actually, I think it's almost a guarantee that she is embarrassed and has not "moved on" to use the common phrase. Rather I suspect she is "moving" because that's what you have to do to get to the past tense of the thing.

I am in no way a feminist. I identify as a humanist. That said, there are differences in the ways the genders deal with and are dealt with by the world.

For instance. William was also naked from the waist up. Did this factor into anything at all? Are the headlines saying "William and Kate's Naked Breasts". No. Have we discussed whether William should have bared his chest? No, that would be silly, right? The female body is treated differently by society. Full stop. Undeniable, self evident truth.

So, the violation to Catherine is very sexualized and thus is tied, in ways we have not yet evolved past, so rooted are they in our evolutionary imperatives, to her sense of her place in society. It's not so much how she feels about herself, but how she knows, instinctively, that society now sees her differently. She has very deliberately presented herself in a very neutral way, in this regard. She has never once put a foot wrong in presenting a strong, feminine personality who does not need to send any overt sexual signals. What they did was sexualize her ... shifted the way the world, or some portion of it, sees her. Even if we hold her blameless, even if we sympathize with her, even if we feel protective and outraged, every one of us has a slightly altered perception of her now. Cannot. Be. Helped. It's part of the human condition we can't wish away - our worldview is like the law ... every experience builds upon the last ... we can't unring bells.

So, yes, I guess she is embarrassed. The same way you or I would be if we got photographed naked and our Moms and Dads, friends, relatives and strangers all saw the pictures. To quote my 15 year old niece, "Eeeeew."

Catherine couldn't instantly separate the intellectual condition of "I did nothing wrong" from the responsive condition of "OMG" any better than any one of us could, I would say. As proof I offer the oldest recorded piece of narrative on human nature: Adam and Eve and the Great Fig Leaf incident of '00, if that's the mythology you follow.

Or something like that. YMMV
 
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Any woman would be embarrassed, I think it shows a lot of her character that she will not let her embarrassment,'pain and distress run her life. Going out there and continuing to smile shows the world that she won't be easily broken.
Let's talk about how William looked in these photos; didn't he have a little bit of belly? Why is Kate's body always the topic of discussion.
 
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Any woman would be embarrassed, I think it shows a lot of her character that she will not let her embarrassment,'pain and distress run her life. Going out there and continuing to smile shows the world that she won't be easily broken.

Hah hah :) You said in two sentences what took me several convoluted paragraphs. I think I need to hire you as my editor :)

Yes. As you say, I think.
 
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are you all going crazy???s

Is this world really loosing is mind?

When I am in private Ia AM private, no matter who I am.

Everything esle is intrusion and WRONG.

Stop discussing this matter, stop looking at picturs and stop buying these mags. finished.

53 pages about a few pictuers which were taken without permission.

FINISH STOP GET A LIVE
 
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