Royal Engagements Announcements 2017


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Welcome to the thread for Royal Engagements Announcements in 2017. The 2016 version of this thread can be found HERE.

Please feel free to contribute to this thread.

Please follow the forum rules when posting.

More information about the Royal Genealogy threads can be found HERE.

The original posts will be updated with news as soon as the information is made public.
 
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Princess Marie Gabrielle of Nassau got engaged to Antonius Willms.

Source: Nobiliana, EAG 2017 by Duchess
 
Princess Marie Gabrielle of Nassau got engaged to Antonius Willms.

Source: Nobiliana, EAG 2017 by Duchess

They are 5th cousins as both have descended from Princess Carolina Ferdinanda of Bourbon Two-Sicilies, Duhcess de Berry (1798-1870)
 
They are 5th cousins as both have descended from Princess Carolina Ferdinanda of Bourbon Two-Sicilies, Duhcess de
Antonius' mother and Count Moritz v. Goess, husband of Princess Fleur v. Wuerttemberg are first Cousins.
 
They are 5th cousins as both have descended from Princess Carolina Ferdinanda of Bourbon Two-Sicilies, Duhcess de
Antonius' mother and Count Moritz v. Goess, husband of Princess Fleur v. Wuerttemberg are first Cousins.
Marie Gabrielle was born September 8 in 1986
Antonius was born December 22 in 1988.
 
Archduke Franz Ludwig of Austria (b.5 October 1988) [sixth of eight children of Archduke Rudolf of Austria (b.1950) & his wife Helene, nee Baroness Vigelfagne de Vogelsanck (b.1954)] got engaged to Mathilde Vignon (b.1992) this year.

Athough Franz Ludwig is sixth of eight, he is only the second one who marries; as for now only his oldest brother Christian (b.1979) is married to Estelle de Saint-Romain (b.1979) and has four daughters: Zita (b.2008), Anezka (b.2010), Anna (b.2012) & Paola (b.2015).

Source: Descendants of Archduke Franz Karl of Austria
 
Is it proper to call Viktoria princess, even if a courtesy title ? Her father renounced his right to marry the first of his three commoner wives. Viktoria is the daughter of his second. Her father is uncle of George of Prussia, the current head of the house. George inherited, though Victoria's father contested in court for years, because his uncles renounced their rights.

The groom is nephew of prince Ernst August of Hannover. His mother is godmother of Caroline's daughter Alexandra for whom Alexandra was named.
 
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Is it proper to call Viktoria princess, even if a courtesy title ? Her father renounced his title to marry the first of his three commoner wives. Viktoria is the daughter of his second. Her father is uncle of George of Prussia, the current head of the house. George inherited, though Victoria's father contested in court for years, because his uncles renounced their rights.

The groom is nephew of prince Ernst August of Hannover. His mother is godmother of Caroline's daughter Alexandra for whom Alexandra was named. When his parents married, his mother was loaned a tiara from Queen Elizabeth to wear.


Renouncing a right does not mean renouncing a title. And also the head of the House has not issued any Decree stating that his uncle has lost his title. Anyway, many happy congratulations to the engaged couple!
 
Not asking about her father's title. But his right to pass it on to his children. Are children of morgantic marriages entitled to their fathers courtesy title?
 
Not asking about her father's title. But his right to pass it on to his children. Are children of morgantic marriages entitled to their fathers courtesy title?

Since the titles do not exist in Germany, nobody could make you change your family name(courtesy title) if you yourself don't want.

The grooms uncle Karl Emich has also renounced his succession rights, but is still Prinz zu Leiningen and nobody can dispute that.
 
Is it proper to call Viktoria princess, even if a courtesy title ? Her father renounced his title to marry the first of his three commoner wives. Viktoria is the daughter of his second. Her father is uncle of George of Prussia, the current head of the house. George inherited, though Victoria's father contested in court for years, because his uncles renounced their rights.

The groom is nephew of prince Ernst August of Hannover. His mother is godmother of Caroline's daughter Alexandra for whom Alexandra was named. When his parents married, his mother was loaned a tiara from Queen Elizabeth to wear.

Friedrich Wilhelm and his brother Michael renounced their rights & rights of their descendantsas members of the royal house for succession (and inheritance) due to Wilhelm II's will. Neither lost their title or the HRH. Their children have the surname Prinz or Prinzessin von Preussen but are not Princes or Princesses of Prussia, although the media will style them as such

Since the titles do not exist in Germany, nobody could make you change your family name(courtesy title) if you yourself don't want.

The grooms uncle Karl Emich has also renounced his succession rights, but is still Prinz zu Leiningen and nobody can dispute that.

Karl Emich did not renounce his rights. He lost them. He briefly succeeded his father, but due to his father's will, he had to step down, as his second marriage was not approved or accepted so he and his male descendants lost their succession rights. He reverted to HSH Prince Karl Emich zu Leiningen.

Not asking about her father's title. But his right to pass it on to his children. Are children of morgantic marriages entitled to their fathers courtesy title?

Prior to 1919, the head of the house would have given the wife and kids a lesser title.

Friedrich Wilhelm and his brother Michael renounced their rights & rights of their descendantsas members of the royal house for succession (and inheritance) due to Wilhelm II's will. Neither lost their title or the HRH. Their children have the surname Prinz or Prinzessin von Preussen but are not Princes or Princesses of Prussia, although the media will style them as such

I got it wrong years ago but the bridal tiara was returned to the Hanovers in I think the 1850s
 
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Not asking about her father's title. But his right to pass it on to his children. Are children of morgantic marriages entitled to their fathers courtesy title?

Morganatic marriages do not exist in Germany. And yes, his children can receive his name and title. Even adoptive children can (see the Zsa Zsa Gabor's widower Frederic "Prinz von Anhalt" (born Hans Georg Robert Lichtenberg) who payed a real Princess a lot of money to get him adopted as her son...That Princess "adopted" 35 (!!) people in turn for money.

:sad:
 
Karl Emich did not renounce his rights. He lost them. He briefly succeeded his father, but due to his father's will, he had to step down, as his second marriage was not approved or accepted so he and his male descendants lost their succession rights. He reverted to HSH Prince Karl Emich zu Leiningen.

Thank you for this. :)

But he has stayed Prince no matter what.
 
...

The groom is nephew of prince Ernst August of Hannover. His mother is godmother of Caroline's daughter Alexandra for whom Alexandra was named. When his parents married, his mother was loaned a tiara from Queen Elizabeth to wear.
The groom's mother, nee Princess Alexandra von Hannover, wore the Hannover wedding crown for her own wedding. That little diamond crown is property of the Prince of Hanover and is not owned by Queen Elizabeth. QEII owns a similar small crown which goes back to Queen Victoria.
 
Morganatic marriages do not exist in Germany. And yes, his children can receive his name and title. Even adoptive children can (see the Zsa Zsa Gabor's widower Frederic "Prinz von Anhalt" (born Hans Georg Robert Lichtenberg) who payed a real Princess a lot of money to get him adopted as her son...That Princess "adopted" 35 (!!) people in turn for money.

:sad:

Yes, because Prince iscacsurname now. Zsa Zsa husband didn't buy a title he bought a last name. Not legal abd doesn't make him royalty.

And yes morgantic marriages were a thing when German titles were recognized. Hence her father and one of his brothers had to renounce succession to marry their commoner wives. The same can be found in many German houses.

The obvious example is Prince Philip's grandfather who was a Prince of Battenberg and not Hesse, because of his father's morgantic marriage. His mother and the children were granted a lesser title and not permitted succession rights to Hesse.
 
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It is interesting that the marriage of the parents of Princess Viktoria Luise of Prussia was not considered Standesgemäß (according one's standing in society).

Her mother Ehrengard Insea Elisabeth von Reden is a daughter of the late Oberstleutnant (Lieutenant-Colonel) Gunter Ludwig Johann Jobst von Reden (died in battle in 1945) and of the late Ehrengard Johanna von Hülsen.

The Von Redens belong to the Nobility since medieaeval times. The Von Hülsens even belong to the Uradel (the eldest Nobility). Apparently the bar was higher back then in the 1930's for what was "befitting a Prince of Prussia".

In any way, Viktoria Luise, despite being the result of the "morganatic marriage" of her parents, has full noble quarters and is not exactly "from the street".
 
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It is interesting that the marriage of the parents of Princess Viktoria Luise of Prussia was not considered Standesgemäß (according one's standing in society).

Her mother Ehrengard Insea Elisabeth von Reden is a daughter of the late Oberstleutnant (Lieutenant-Colonel) Gunter Ludwig Johann Jobst von Reden (died in battle in 1945) and of the late Ehrengard Johanna von Hülsen.

The Von Redens belong to the Nobility since medieaeval times. The Von Hülsens even belong to the Uradel (the eldest Nobility). Apparently the bar was higher back then in the 1930's for what was "befitting a Prince of Prussia".

In any way, Viktoria Luise, despite being the result of the "morganatic marriage" of her parents, has full noble quarters and is not exactly "from the street".

Even if the marriage would have been considered equal her brothers would have no succession rights as their father had rennounced his dynastic rights after his first marriage.
A similr case is in the Leiningen Family.
The grooms uncle Prince Karl-Erich made a dynastic marriage to Princess Margarita zu Hoihenlohe-Oehringen who died in a car crash a few year later. His second marriage to Gabriele Thyssen was not approved and he lost his dynastic rights. After his marriage ended in divroce he married again to Countess Isabvelle zu Egloffstein. With her he has a son but as fhis fathe lost his rights the son has no succession rights to the Princely Title.
 
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It is interesting that the marriage of the parents of Princess Viktoria Luise of Prussia was not considered Standesgemäß (according one's standing in society).

Her mother Ehrengard Insea Elisabeth von Reden is a daughter of the late Oberstleutnant (Lieutenant-Colonel) Gunter Ludwig Johann Jobst von Reden (died in battle in 1945) and of the late Ehrengard Johanna von Hülsen.

The Von Redens belong to the Nobility since medieaeval times. The Von Hülsens even belong to the Uradel (the eldest Nobility). Apparently the bar was higher back then in the 1930's for what was "befitting a Prince of Prussia".

In any way, Viktoria Luise, despite being the result of the "morganatic marriage" of her parents, has full noble quarters and is not exactly "from the street".

True, but there is a difference.

Similar was Prussia/Harrach case.

King Friedrich Wilhelm III married Countess Auguste von Harrach zu Rohrau und Thannahausen.

Countess Auguste belonged to mediatized family, but did not belong to the main branch which was considered mediatized, but from collateral branch, so, because of that she had to be treated as morganatic wife.

Also, similar case is with never materialized marriage between Crown Prince Willem of Orange-Nassau and Countess Mathilde von Limburg-Stirum. Although she was a member of a mediatized family, she did not belong to the branch which had sovereign rights before 1806 and the marriage prospects were doomed.

This is, IMO, the case with Prussia/Reden case. Ehrenagard belonged to untitled branch of the family, while titled branch had title Count/Countess von Reden.

If Prince Michael was to be married with Countess Ehrengard von Reden (member of titled branch of the family), instead of "just" untitled noble lady Ehrengard von Reden, I think the case would be treated different.
 
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This is, IMO, the case with Prussia/Reden case. Ehrenagard belonged to untitled branch of the family, while titled branch had title Count/Countess von Reden.

If Prince Michael was to be married with Countess Ehrengard von Reden (member of titled branch of the family), instead of "just" untitled noble lady Ehrengard von Reden, I think the case would be treated different.

But on the other hand the marriages of Prince Wilhelm Karl to Armgard von Veltheim and his son Oscar to Augustge Zimmermann von Siefaerth where both approved as dynastic.
Why make differences? Because they where not the first in the line of succession?
 
But on the other hand the marriages of Prince Wilhelm Karl to Armgard von Veltheim and his son Oscar to Augustge Zimmermann von Siefaerth where both approved as dynastic.
Why make differences? Because they where not the first in the line of succession?

I browsed some of your posts regarding Ehrengard von Reden and saw that her marriage didn't count as her husband renounced succession rights before their marriage, so at the time of his marriage to Ehregard he didn't exist as a dynast and didn't have to require permisson. He had been previously married to Waltraut Freydag. So, it was not a matter of von Reden family being treated low , but a matter of previous marriage that resulted succession renouncement, which was standing.

Similar case with Prince Emich Karl zu Leiningen. He renounced his rights and based on that not even his son with Countess Isabelle von und zu Egloffstein can't succeed. If there wasn't his second marriage, a marriage with Isabelle would be treated equal.

I have also read somewhere that Prussia doesn't have exact House Law, which means that everything is left to the Head of the House and his decision.

Noble(non mediatized) ladies treated equal:

- Countess Ina Maria von Bassewitz-Levetzow-Rupin

- Lady Brigid Guinness

- Countess Nina zu Reventlow

- Countess Antoinette Hoyos von und zu Stichsenstein

- Armgard von Veltheim

- Auguste Zimmermann von Siefaerth

- Lady Hermione Stuart


Noble ladies haven't been treated equal:

- Maria Anna von Humboldt-Dachroeden

- Adelheid von Bockum genannt Dolffs

- Dorothea von Salviati

- Ehrengard von Reden

- Honorable Victoria Mancroft
 
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I browsed some of your posts regarding Ehrengard von Reden and saw that her marriage didn't count as her husband renounced succession rights before their marriage, so at the time of his marriage to Ehregard he didn't exist as a dynast and didn't have to require permisson. He had been previously married to Waltraut Freydag. So, it was not a matter of von Reden family being treated low , but a matter of previous marriage that resulted succession renouncement, which was standing.

Similar case with Prince Emich Karl zu Leiningen. He renounced his rights and based on that not even his son with Countess Isabelle von und zu Egloffstein can't succeed. If there wasn't his second marriage, a marriage with Isabelle would be treated equal.


That is what i wrote in Post 18 of this Thread.

Noble(non mediatized) ladies treated equal:

- Countess Ina Maria von Bassewitz-Levetzow-Rupin

- Lady Brigid Guinness

- Countess Nina zu Reventlow

- Countess Antoinette Hoyos von und zu Stichsenstein

- Armgard von Veltheim

- Auguste Zimmermann von Siefaerth

- Lady Hermione Stuart


Noble ladies haven't been treated equal:

- Maria Anna von Humboldt-Dachroeden

- Adelheid von Bockum genannt Dolffs

- Dorothea von Salviati

- Ehrengard von Reden

- Honorable Victoria Mancroft

From the one who have not been accepted as equal only Adelheid von Bockum and Hon. Victoria Mancroft married when Prince Louis Ferdinand was the Head of the House. The others married in earlier. And Prince Friedrich Wilhelm was no dynast anymore at the time of said marriage.
I still have my doubts that Prince Louis Ferdinand would have accepted a von Reden as an equal spouse for his Heir. I have also read that it was an exception that he accepted the marriage of Prince Christian Sigismund and Countess Nina zu Reventlow as equal.
 
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I still have my doubts that Prince Louis Ferdinand would have accepted a von Reden as an equal spouse for his Heir. I have also read that it was an exception that he accepted the marriage of Prince Christian Sigismund and Countess Nina zu Reventlow as equal.

Well, if he accepted Zimmermann von Siefart as equal, don't see why wouldn't he accept a von Reden, whose nobility is ancient compared to Zimmermann von Siefart, for example.

On the other hand if we compare Bassewitz-Levetzow and Reventlow families in general, I must say that Reventlow family is far more grander.

If we compare their ancestry we see that Nina is legitimate descendant of many grand families such as Castell-Remlingen, Stolberg-Stolberg, Hessen-Darmstadt, Saxony etc., while Ina's grandest ancestry is through illegitimate line of Duke Wilhelm von Braunschweig (1568-1636).

So, if Ina was treated equal, why wouldn't Nina, whose ancestry is grander? :p Just a thought. ;)
 
Well, if he accepted Zimmermann von Siefart as equal, don't see why wouldn't he accept a von Reden, whose nobility is ancient compared to Zimmermann von Siefart, for example.

On the other hand if we compare Bassewitz-Levetzow and Reventlow families in general, I must say that Reventlow family is far more grander.

If we compare their ancestry we see that Nina is legitimate descendant of many grand families such as Castell-Remlingen, Stolberg-Stolberg, Hessen-Darmstadt, Saxony etc., while Ina's grandest ancestry is through illegitimate line of Duke Wilhelm von Braunschweig (1568-1636).

So, if Ina was treated equal, why wouldn't Nina, whose ancestry is grander? :p Just a thought. ;)


That is why i think there differences made regarding equal spouses for the Heir and those further down in the succession.
As for Ina von Basseitz-Levetzow the marriage the marriage was not dynastic at first and only after several years recognized as such.
 
That is why i think there differences made regarding equal spouses for the Heir and those further down in the succession.

I agree with you on this.


As for Ina von Basseitz-Levetzow the marriage the marriage was not dynastic at first and only after several years recognized as such.

True, but still recognized as dynastic. So, why not applying same criteria for marriage with Countess Nina zu Reventlow which occurred decades after this recognition as equal?!? :p

Just loud thinking. :p
 
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True, but still recognized as dynastic. So, why not applying same criteria for marriage with Countess Nina zu Reventlow which occurred decades after this recognition as equal?!? :p

Just loud thinking. :p

Because it was a different person who made the decision. And probably because the rules had been not as strict anymore then in 1914.
 
Because it was a different person who made the decision. And probably because the rules had been not as strict anymore then in 1914.

True, but considering that, at that time, the rules were much stricter and that's why i think that if Ina-Marie was treated equal at that time, why not Nina in more recent times.

Again, if we compare families and recent ancestry of two Countesses, Nina, imo, has stronger claim.
 
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Prince Leopold of Salm-Horstmar (b.27 November 1982) [younger son of Prince Gustav Friedrich of Salm-Horstmar (b.1942) & his former wife Beatrice von Frankenberg und Ludwigsdorf (b.1952)] is engaged to Tia Hunjan; they plan to marry reportedly in September.

Sources: Descendants of Count Karl of Lippe-Biesterfeld
Netty Royal

Princess Maria Franziska of Orleans e Braganza (b.18 August 1979) [daughter of Prince Eudes of Brazil (b.1938) & his current wife Mercedes Willemsens Neves de Rocha (b.1955) will marry, as her second husband, Michael Anthony Whyte, on 15 July.

She was previously married (from 2005 to 2013) to Bernardo Almeida de Braga Ratto (b.1977) by whom she has two children: Lucas (b.2007) and Maria (b.2010)

Source: Netty Royal

Prince Christian of Hannover, who will turn 32 in fifteen days [younger son of Ernst-August, Prince of Hannover (b.1955) & his first wife Chantal Hochuli (b.1954)] is engaged to his longtime girlfriend Alessandra de Osma; they will marry reportedly next year.

Source: https://royaltravel.wordpress.com/upcoming-events/
 
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