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  #201  
Old 07-15-2013, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by blauerengel View Post
No,that is certainly not true. Can you give me any proof for your assumptions?
Is there any evidence for your rejection of my statement? I wrote about those things that have been published in connection with the charge against the wife of a Saudi prince. I don't need assumptions. With neutrality you defend the truth and not a person......
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  #202  
Old 07-16-2013, 03:20 AM
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I have read and heard many similar stories, and the outcome in 90% of them is that the housemaid makes up the stories just to stay in the United States and Europe. Many of the workers from third world countries runaway and make up stories to thinking they can stay in the US, many of them get deported back. Same in the UK. Many use to runway when they travelled with families during the summer and the government realized it was trend.

Im not blaming or pointing fingers but something is off and the article is off. The Princess is in jail till the court rules which is normal in any case, that doesn't mean she is full guilt.
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  #203  
Old 07-16-2013, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by dazzling View Post
I have read and heard many similar stories, and the outcome in 90% of them is that the housemaid makes up the stories just to stay in the United States and Europe. Many of the workers from third world countries runaway and make up stories to thinking they can stay in the US, many of them get deported back. Same in the UK. Many use to runway when they travelled with families during the summer and the government realized it was trend.

Im not blaming or pointing fingers but something is off and the article is off. The Princess is in jail till the court rules which is normal in any case, that doesn't mean she is full guilt.
The USA is very lenient toward any member of its ally. If the runaway maid just lied, the authorities would not have dragged a Saudi Princess to a court and would have settled the issue quietly.
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  #204  
Old 07-16-2013, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by dazzling View Post
I have read and heard many similar stories, and the outcome in 90% of them is that the housemaid makes up the stories just to stay in the United States and Europe. Many of the workers from third world countries runaway and make up stories to thinking they can stay in the US, many of them get deported back. Same in the UK. Many use to runway when they travelled with families during the summer and the government realized it was trend.

Im not blaming or pointing fingers but something is off and the article is off. The Princess is in jail till the court rules which is normal in any case, that doesn't mean she is full guilt.
Well,it may be true that some people invent all kind of things for obvious reasons,but I have also met some women and male workers who have been treated very badly. Some women are lured to go to one of the rich M.E countries with the prospect of working as nannies or doing all kind of housework,but when they come to the country their passports are seized and they are forced to work under inhumane conditions,many women from Eastern European countries are even forced into prostitution!
That is not something "bad Westerners" are imagining or anything that the women would make up-no woman would like her family to know that she was forced to work as a prostitute, this is a shameful work in all societies.
Just as well as it is generally difficult to go to court and go through all the examination and questioning process, I can tell you that you would not like to be a witness in court because it is very demanding and emotionally challenging.
As imanmajid has written before,there are often very unrealistic ideas about the countries and because of the lack of knowledge many workers get exploited and end up in situations where they have to endure hardships of all kinds.
Because they are often not used to the different culture and habits,or they are having difficulties to express themselves in a foreign language,they are unable to just get on the next plane and escape like we could do in such a case. Furthermore they can´t book a flight if their wages are withheld and they are therefore very limited in their actions and freedom to move.
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  #205  
Old 07-16-2013, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by blauerengel View Post
Well,it may be true that some people invent all kind of things for obvious reasons,but I have also met some women and male workers who have been treated very badly.
Were you a witness to the poor treatment of the house staff you met? If it was only statements of persons: What makes you so sure that the events actually happened?
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  #206  
Old 07-16-2013, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by blauerengel View Post
Some women are lured to go to one of the rich M.E countries with the prospect of working as nannies or doing all kind of housework,but when they come to the country their passports are seized and they are forced to work under inhumane conditions,many women from Eastern European countries are even forced into prostitution! That is not something "bad Westerners" are imagining or anything that the women would make up........

....they are often not used to the different culture and habits,or they are having difficulties to express themselves in a foreign language,they are unable to just get on the next plane and escape like we could do in such a case. Furthermore they can´t book a flight if their wages are withheld and they are therefore very limited in their actions and freedom to move.
Well, these things can happen in some cases. You described individual cases which have not generally apply to all domestic workers. I can confirm the last statement of dazzling. Some maids use a stay abroad in Western states to run away. In rare cases it´s based by previous real abuse. Mostly the maids are motivated by the desire to seek asylum in a Western country because they would not have succeeded in other circumstances (by escaping from their home countries). They want to have a better standard of living than they can have in their home countries. The employment contracts of the maids are for two years only (UAE law). After this, the women have to return to their country of origin, where poverty and unemployment awaits them, if they are not lucky enough to get a new job as a housemaid in one of the GCC states again.

About working conditions (UAE): It is expected that the maids fulfill their assigned tasks. If they can not or do not want this, so they are free to ask for an earlier dismissal. However, this has disadvantages, for example, within a specified period of time it is no longer permitted for them to work in UAE.
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  #207  
Old 07-16-2013, 06:12 PM
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Given the current discussion and inherent bias/partiality of each side, it remains to be seen whose lies will be more truth-looking.
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  #208  
Old 07-17-2013, 09:45 AM
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Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas said after court Thursday that the woman was subjected to “forced labor.” He likened Alayban to a slave owner.

“It’s been 150 years since the Emancipation Proclamation, and slavery has been unlawful in the United States, and certainly in California, all this time, and it’s disappointing to see it in use here,” said Rackauckas..."

....The Kenyan woman said her passport was taken from her when she left her country to work for Alayban, hoping to make enough money to cover her ailing 7-year-old daughter’s medical bills.
The 30-year-old woman, whose name has not been released, alleges she was forced to work long hours and was paid only a fraction of what she was promised.
When police searched the condo, they found four other workers, from the Philippines. The women left voluntarily with officers and told them they were interested in being free, police said.


source:Saudi princess accused of using slave labor in Calif. makes $5M bail with consulate's help - Washington Times

A BBC article with statement from the victim´s lawyer
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23282168
""My client was a slave to this woman," said Steve Barick, a lawyer for the accuser.
She wasn't able to freely move about. She had her ability to move in and about the country taken away. She was intimidated. She was promised one thing when she was in another country and when she was brought here that was changed. She was overworked. She was underpaid."


Another article-it is more in-depth with 3 pages of information on the case:
http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazin...n_traffick.php

From Huffington post:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3576309.html
quoted from article above:The 30-year-old woman told authorities she was hired in Kenya in 2012 and her passport was taken from her on arrival in Saudi Arabia. She was forced to work excessive hours and was paid less than she was promised and not allowed to leave, authorities said.

"This is not a contract dispute," Rackauckas told the court during a bail hearing Wednesday afternoon, likening the case to slavery. "This is holding someone captive against their will."


Just a little selection of articles that have been written about this case....
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  #209  
Old 07-17-2013, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
The USA is very lenient toward any member of its ally. If the runaway maid just lied, the authorities would not have dragged a Saudi Princess to a court and would have settled the issue quietly.
I agree that the media is biased-both the Arab media and the Western newspapers have a very different view on many topics, but the Police would certainly not question a member of a royal family unless they have reliable proof that there has been a violation of existing laws.
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  #210  
Old 07-17-2013, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Imanmajed View Post
Well, these things can happen in some cases. You described individual cases which have not generally apply to all domestic workers. I can confirm the last statement of dazzling. Some maids use a stay abroad in Western states to run away. In rare cases it´s based by previous real abuse. Mostly the maids are motivated by the desire to seek asylum in a Western country because they would not have succeeded in other circumstances (by escaping from their home countries). They want to have a better standard of living than they can have in their home countries. The employment contracts of the maids are for two years only (UAE law). After this, the women have to return to their country of origin, where poverty and unemployment awaits them, if they are not lucky enough to get a new job as a housemaid in one of the GCC states again.

About working conditions (UAE): It is expected that the maids fulfill their assigned tasks. If they can not or do not want this, so they are free to ask for an earlier dismissal. However, this has disadvantages, for example, within a specified period of time it is no longer permitted for them to work in UAE.
I would like to believe that this is just an individual case,but unfortunately it is a system of crime and there is impunity in most cases because as you know,prostitution is illegal in Islam,so the victims are in a very difficult situations when they want to escape the vicious cycle of violence and injustice.
I have only chosen an article from an ARAB tv-program, but there are so many articles and reports from trustworthy organizations that are highlighting the terrible human rights violations and human trafficking in the GCC, maybe you should get your facts straight and finally accept that there are terrible things happening....

Human trafficking plagues UAE - Middle East - Al Jazeera English
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  #211  
Old 07-17-2013, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by blauerengel View Post
I would like to believe that this is just an individual case,but unfortunately it is a system of crime and there is impunity in most cases because as you know,prostitution is illegal in Islam,so the victims are in a very difficult situations when they want to escape the vicious cycle of violence and injustice.
???About what we talk??? About the housemaids of a woman who is married with a saudi prince or about women who forced into prostitution????? I get the feeling, you mixed two different topics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blauerengel View Post
I have only chosen an article from an ARAB tv-program, but there are so many articles and reports from trustworthy organizations that are highlighting the terrible human rights violations and human trafficking in the GCC, maybe you should get your facts straight and finally accept that there are terrible things happening....
I am aware that the UAE, especially Dubai, have a problem with forced prostitution. But I have not talked about it nor have I denied this...... As a reminder: the topic here was about a lady, who is married with a Saudi prince, and was accused of human trafficking in U.S. because of the bad working conditions of their housemaids, mainly one of them. My statement was, that not all housemaids working under terrible conditions and that some of the housemaids use a stay abroad for run away, even if nothing bad has happened to them and there were no sign for human trafficking in their cases.

In the present case of the prosecution against the wife of a Saudi prince I pleaded to wait for results of investigation and the decision of the American court.
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  #212  
Old 07-17-2013, 02:16 PM
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@imanmajed: You were the one who was getting too much off topic- you wrote that this case is unique and I wanted to give you a source that shows that disrespect for the human rights of the workers and forced labor it is not a single case but rather something that is happening everyday....
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  #213  
Old 07-17-2013, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by blauerengel View Post
@imanmajed: You were the one who was getting too much off topic- you wrote that this case is unique and I wanted to give you a source that shows that disrespect for the human rights of the workers and forced labor it is not a single case but rather something that is happening everyday....
My statements always corresponding to the theme, I think. I asked for avoiding generalizations and tried to light this type of incidents from different perspectives......
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:42 PM
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Back to the topic,let´s talk about the reality of human trafficking in KSA - something that a few posters believe to be just a problem of a few unlucky people...this is from a trustworthy source and it is only the officially published version - the stories of the victims are much more terrible than the diplomatic reports may sound!

An official report from the US government noted:
Saudi Arabia is a destination country for trafficked persons. Victims come primarily from the Philippines, Bangladesh, Sudan, Ethiopia, India, Indonesia, and Sri Lanka to work as domestic servants and menial laborers. Some persons who come to Saudi Arabia in search of work are forced into situations of coerced labor or slave-like conditions, and in some of those cases they also suffer extreme working conditions and physical abuse. Some female domestic servants work in conditions of forced labor, and in some cases those trafficking victims are also physically and sexually abused. Many low-skilled foreign workers have their passports withheld, contracts altered, and suffer non-payment of salaries of varying degrees and durations.

The Government of Saudi Arabia does not fully comply with the minimum standards for the elimination of trafficking; however, it is making significant efforts to do so. The government's strengths in combating trafficking are in the areas of prevention and protection. The government is taking steps to increase the enforcement of trafficking by revising its visa system.


->source:Country Narratives -- Countries Q through Z
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  #215  
Old 07-17-2013, 02:57 PM
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@ blauerengel:

Just a suggestion, but I think it makes more sense to stay at the present case and at the main theme of the thread while discuss the topic.

General discussions on human trafficking, degrading working conditions, mistreatment, abuse, prostitution and forced whereabouts by removing the personal documents should be better placed in the members corner in a separate, new thread.
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  #216  
Old 07-18-2013, 10:23 AM
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It is not a 'general discussion on human trafficking' when KSA is a destination country for trafficked persons. Please explain/rationalize for me why anyone should have their passport confiscated so that they cannot leave the country, unless they are being kept against their will.
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  #217  
Old 07-18-2013, 02:21 PM
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Please explain/rationalize for me why anyone should have their passport confiscated so that they cannot leave the country, unless they are being kept against their will.
Not all of the passports of domestic workers get confiscated..... But if so, there are some reasons. It is not about to hold someone against his / her will. But I prefer to concentrate on the present case.
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  #218  
Old 07-18-2013, 03:10 PM
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What legitimate reasons can there be for holding an employees passport? Any relevent info on the passport could easily be recorded and the passport photocopied, so there would be no need to actually withhold the passport unless you wanted to stop the passport holder from departing.
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  #219  
Old 07-18-2013, 11:20 PM
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What legitimate reasons can there be for holding an employees passport? Any relevent info on the passport could easily be recorded and the passport photocopied, so there would be no need to actually withhold the passport unless you wanted to stop the passport holder from departing.
You are right on the mark. There is never a reason to withhold a passport unless you are preventing someone from their freedom.
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  #220  
Old 07-19-2013, 02:09 AM
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Can we please get back on topic and discuss the
Saudi Princesses


Further discussion on laws, human trafficking etc will be deleted
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