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  #181  
Old 05-19-2013, 05:12 AM
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You could say that the Saudi women were closed years ago but now it's changed. Women were always able to go to school and university throughout the Kingdom. Women could work, go out, go to cinemas and the malls. It's a choice that women didn't want to make like work and finish their education because they got married. You have a lot of women who are CEO's of companies in Saudi and have won awards, top research DR's who are women who lead labs in the United States.

King Abdullah's daughter hold the biggest women forum in Saudi Arabia yearly which you can find pictures of her in the Arabic newspapers and magazines. Sadly many of the events don't make it to the foreign news agencies. Moreover, you have Loulwa al Faisal who is an active Saudi Princess for the past 8 years. She also attends the WEF.
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  #182  
Old 05-19-2013, 09:47 PM
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Top research doctors who lead labs in the US. Yes, Why? Perhaps, Opportunity. There is progress, but name the female CEO's of Saudi Corporations? And the King's daughters have many opportunities that others do not have.
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  #183  
Old 05-20-2013, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
Top research doctors who lead labs in the US. Yes, Why? Perhaps, Opportunity. There is progress, but name the female CEO's of Saudi Corporations? And the King's daughters have many opportunities that others do not have.
The names are listed below, also note that they are companies established and operate in Saudi Arabia

Nadia Al Dossary CEO of Al-Sale Eastern scrap metal company in 2003
Lubna Olayan, CEO, Olayan Financing.
Dr. Hayat bint Sulaiman Sindi, Medical scientist and first female members of the Consultative Assembly of Saudi Arabia.
Lama Al Sulaiman maybe not CEO but Deputy Chairwoman, Jeddah Chamber for Commerce & Industry.
Thoraya Ahmed Obaid, Former Executive Director, UN Population Fund

The list goes on on what women have accomplished. It's sad that it's not knows because the Western media doesn't pick it up. Even the work of what the Princesses do aren't made as far as Saudi media.
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  #184  
Old 05-22-2013, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by dazzling View Post
You could say that the Saudi women were closed years ago but now it's changed. Women were always able to go to school and university throughout the Kingdom. Women could work, go out, go to cinemas and the malls. It's a choice that women didn't want to make like work and finish their education because they got married. You have a lot of women who are CEO's of companies in Saudi and have won awards, top research DR's who are women who lead labs in the United States.

King Abdullah's daughter hold the biggest women forum in Saudi Arabia yearly which you can find pictures of her in the Arabic newspapers and magazines. Sadly many of the events don't make it to the foreign news agencies. Moreover, you have Loulwa al Faisal who is an active Saudi Princess for the past 8 years. She also attends the WEF.
That is also one of my impressions- the women of Saudi Arabia are eager to learn and if I remember correctly they are now in bigger number of university graduates, they seem to use the opportunities and new freedom that is given to them step by step.
But nevertheless, we must also be aware that a Royal lady has different chances and prerogratives than a woman of normal upbringing and withoout connections. Most of the women who are doing a public job, who speak at important business conventions or talk to foreign dignitaries (like at the Davos forum) are from the Royal family. They are good role models and certainly they have worked very hard to get where they are today, but they are rather the exception than the norm. In Europe or USA we do not need to highlight that we have female CEOs or female politicians- it is normal and does not get questioned anymore,only by a few male chauvinists who wish that everything remains as it was in the 1950ies. If you take Angela Merkel you see an ambitious,hard-working woman who has worked up her way to the top, but nobody of my friends takes a special pride in her because she is a woman. To us she is a politician like everyone else, we judge her by her actions and respect her achievements, but we would not talk about her any different if she was a man.
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  #185  
Old 07-11-2013, 08:18 AM
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Saudi woman arrested for human trafficking

Prosecutors in California have charged a woman they refer to as a Saudi princess for the alleged human trafficking of a Kenyan woman.

Tony Rackauckas, the Orange County District Attorney, on Wednesday identified 42-year-old Meshael Alayban as a Saudi princess charged with one count of human trafficking. If convicted, she faces up to 12 years in prison.

Alayban was arrested after the Kenyan woman carrying a suitcase flagged down a bus on Tuesday and told a passenger of the conditions she worked in. The passenger helped her contact police, who searched the Irvine property where Alayban and her family were staying, authorities said.

The 30-year-old woman told authorities she was hired in Kenya in 2012 and her passport was taken from her on arrival in Saudi Arabia. She was forced to work excessive hours and was paid less than she was promised and not allowed to leave, authorities said.

"This is not a contract dispute," Rackauckas told the court and likened the case to slavery. “This is holding someone captive against their will."
Saudi woman arrested for human trafficking - Americas - Al Jazeera English
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  #186  
Old 07-11-2013, 08:30 AM
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Lovely. All that money and they wont pay their servants and keep them against their will.
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  #187  
Old 07-11-2013, 10:54 AM
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Saudi princess accused of human trafficking | Law | guardian.co.uk
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Prosecutors in southern California have charged a Saudi Arabian princess with human trafficking and accused her of bringing a Kenyan woman to the United States and holding her against her will as a servant.

The accused woman, Meshael Alayban, 42, brought the Kenyan to the US in May and paid her $220 a month while holding her passport and keeping her confined to an apartment complex in Irvine, California, where Alayban lived, Orange county prosecutors said.
Quote:
Alayban is a wife of Saudi Arabian Prince Abdulrahman bin Nasser bin Abdulaziz al Saud, according to the Orange county prosecutors.
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  #188  
Old 07-11-2013, 11:06 AM
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Alayban is a wife of Saudi Arabian Prince Abdulrahman bin Nasser bin Abdulaziz al Saud, according to the Orange county prosecutors.
Judging by the name, is the husband a grandson of the first king of Saudi Arabia?
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  #189  
Old 07-11-2013, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by scooter View Post
Lovely. All that money and they wont pay their servants and keep them against their will.
That´s true, I am also appalled by the terrible daily human rights violations in the Middle East,especially in the GCC
With all their money they could at least pay decent salaries,the migrant workers have absolutely no rights and often get abused in ways that are just too bad to even imagine enduring so much injustice and pain.
In Europe we are not that rich,but at least we make sure that cleaning women,babysitters and other low-income jobbers get a decent wage,they are not denied their human rights and dignity like in KSA,Qatar,Bahrain,UAE...
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  #190  
Old 07-12-2013, 03:25 AM
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Well all I can say is, prosecute this woman fully. Just because she is a Saudi princess, whom by the way does not deserve the title, should not have any preference or sympathy in my opinion. What a scum bag. What a disgrace to her title. Let her think about it in jail.
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  #191  
Old 07-12-2013, 06:07 AM
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From CNN News

Saudi princess charged with human trafficking


Saudi princess charged with human trafficking - CNN.com
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  #192  
Old 07-13-2013, 03:25 AM
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Originally Posted by LadyGabrielle View Post
Well all I can say is, prosecute this woman fully. Just because she is a Saudi princess, whom by the way does not deserve the title, should not have any preference or sympathy in my opinion. What a scum bag. What a disgrace to her title. Let her think about it in jail.
While I fully agree with you & would strongly support if they were stating an example with this woman to show that even rich people have to respect the law, I do not expect that a Saudi royal will go to prison....the law system is very different from our system of justice,the rich & royal usually get away with most of their actions while an average citizen will be prosecuted harshly.
Demanding her to do a lot of social service would be a good way to punish the woman who was found guilty of human trafficking, she should do the menial work that is usually left to foreign low-paid workers. It might change her mindset...
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  #193  
Old 07-14-2013, 04:46 PM
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Who said this is a Saudi Princess? She does not look like one nor acted like one. But I guess if the word 'Princess' is added to her name by the media it sells a much better story in the US. < ed Warren > The problem is the corporate US media/publishers are comfortable in bed with the lawmakers/lawbreakers therefore they can do whatever they like because they know they get away with it. < ed Warren >
.
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  #194  
Old 07-14-2013, 05:32 PM
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Here we go again.....
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  #195  
Old 07-15-2013, 03:41 AM
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Please stick to facts: The police report confirms that there was no physical abuse, no physical restraint, and that the complaints were about hours worked and wages paid.......Police say all of the five housemaids of the family are in good health, and at this time, there are no indications of physical abuse......

Premature judgments are not useful. We should wait, what the court finds out......

By the way, she isn´t a Saudi princess and not of royal ancestry. Only she is married with a man from the royal family, who is a diplomat in U.S.
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  #196  
Old 07-15-2013, 12:01 PM
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So only because she did not physically assault the women it is alright to violate laws and ignore people´s dignity and human rights?
With all your elaborate talk about moral values and the importance of treating ALL people with respect and kindness,something that you say is the most important Islamic rule,I would expect you to have more empathy with the workers? Obviously this is not the case-especially as the victims in this case are foreign women with a very different socio-economic status and background than yours...

But as you wrote correctly-we should wait for the court ruling, nevertheless everyone is free to share his/her thoughts and opinion about this case. It does not matter if somebody is born royal or not,but if the woman in the article did something wrong, she should be held responsible for her actions.

To set things straight:CNN reported that the woman is married to a Saudi prince which would make her a Princess,
even if she was born a commoner.
source: "Meshael Alayban, 42, faces one felony count of human trafficking. Court details released Thursday say Alayban is one of the wives of Saudi Prince Abdulrahman bin Nasser bin Abdulaziz al Saud"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Friederike Monika View Post
Who said this is a Saudi Princess? She does not look like one nor acted like one. But I guess if the word 'Princess' is added to her name by the media it sells a much better story in the US. < ed Warren > The problem is the corporate US media/publishers are comfortable in bed with the lawmakers/lawbreakers therefore they can do whatever they like because they know they get away with it. < ed Warren >
Please stop advertising your own book in this forums...people who are following the KSA-thread already know that you have an issue with Jean Sasson-it would be very kind and helpful if you solved this problem with the person in charge and refrain from constantly posting such messages.
Thank you

Just on a side note,I would like to quote what you have written in one of your books as I find it highly interesting, especially in relation to our topic,the role of money & power and how people are treated differently depending on their financial situation.

"I came away with the notion that the USA is a society where values are solemnly judged according to the amount of money involved. If you are moneyed in America, you are god-like, as is indeed written in The 48 Laws of Power. Nobody is interested in how you come to money, or make that money."
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  #197  
Old 07-15-2013, 03:24 PM
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I have empathy with those who avoid premature judgments. A well thought speech is better than hasty statements. Compassion can arise only where you have a unbiased look to the happening. Empathy is able to empathize with others. This immersive strategy may never happen unilaterally. I want to see things from all perspectives before judging. As long as the issue of guilty is not clarified, there can be no final judgment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blauerengel View Post
But as you wrote correctly-we should wait for the court ruling, nevertheless everyone is free to share his/her thoughts and opinion about this case. It does not matter if somebody is born royal or not,but if the woman in the article did something wrong, she should be held responsible for her actions.
Starting from the newspaper article, the dispute has its basis rather in a form of infringement of the "employment contract". Currently it seems not to be a kind of human trafficking.

Often the maids, who are working in GCC, were recruited in their home countries by negotiators. These "dealers" often promised unrealistic wages and working conditions. There you should have a first look for causes which lead to problems with the employment contracts. But as I said before, currently there is too little public insight in the actual case.
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  #198  
Old 07-15-2013, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Imanmajed View Post
I have empathy with those who avoid premature judgments. A well thought speech is better than hasty statements. Compassion can arise only where you have a unbiased look to the happening. Empathy is able to empathize with others. This immersive strategy may never happen unilaterally. I want to see things from all perspectives before judging. As long as the issue of guilty is not clarified, there can be no judgment.
Well, you are the poet so I leave the beautiful speeches to you as I do not want to challenge you in your field of reference. As a human rights activist who believes in human rights for everyone (men/women/all religions & colours) I do not speak because I want to entertain an audience,but because I am worried about certain human rights-violations that are affecting other women and men.
CNN is a well-known and respectable source of information,they have a name to lose and they would not publish gossip unless they can back it up with reliable material,especially in this case as it involves a member of a royal family.
Why do you always defend the Arab person even when there is sufficient proof that something is not quite right? I know that I come from a different background and religion,but I am not biased when I am angry that this Kenyan woman was forced to work for much less than the pay that was promised to her and that she and many other worker´s passport were taken away.That is a blatant disrespect to the law and also does not really reflect any good moral values and as Frederike Monika has already written:This is not the behavior of a Princess! I am sure that many respectable ladies and princesses in KSA are equally shocked about Meshael Alayban´s actions. It is very sad for all the royals who are acting properly and respect their staff,because the bad behavior of one person falls back on all the other family members too
The indecent actions of one princess can tarnish the reputation of the whole family and it does not shed a good light on the region if people are defending a person who has violated laws and does not seem to have any respect for human dignity and the well-being of her staff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imanmajed View Post
Often the maids, who are working in GCC, were recruited in their home countries by negotiators. These "dealers" often promised unrealistic wages and working conditions. There you should have a first look for causes which lead to problems with the employment contracts. But as I said before, currently there is too little public insight in the actual case.
That´s certainly true,some people have very naive ideas about working in the GCC and imagine that they will get rich over night,but taking away people´s passport and paying them only 200$ a month is certainly not the right way to deal with foreign workers...
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  #199  
Old 07-15-2013, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by blauerengel View Post
Why do you always defend the Arab person even when there is sufficient proof that something is not quite right?
I would do the same, if a austrian lady is the defendant. At the moment, only statements exist without specific prove. In the actual case sufficient proofs will be secured by the American court now. When the results are published we can discuss.
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  #200  
Old 07-15-2013, 04:53 PM
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I would do the same, if a austrian lady is the defendant. At the moment, only statements exist without specific prove. In the actual case sufficient proofs will be secured by the American court now. When the results are published we can discuss.
No,that is certainly not true. Can you give me any proof for your assumptions?
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