Candice Cohen-Agnine and Prince Sattam Al Saud: Custody and Death Cases

[charlieprk]

I did not know that the US recognizes religious weddings-in Austria you need a civil marriage (which is usually a very plain event,you just have to sign the papers and than the civil servant will say a few words about marriage or love)-most people chose a civil marriage and than a religious one in a church or a fancy wedding party with lots of guests and celebration.
If you only have a religious wedding,it is as if you have never married at all.Which means that you have no right to inherit,get alimony or be allowed to enter your partners flat after he has died among other things.
So you can get married only religious but it is only a promise of love without any legal consequences.

This is fascinating to me! So, in Austria, if you want your religious marriage to be legal, you would have to have two weddings? What a pain! I can see why most just opt for a civil service.

In the US, religious leaders (Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, etc) are granted powers by the State when they are ordained. The couple goes and applies for a Marriage License. Once they have the License, they can get married at the court in a civil ceremony or go to their place of worship and have the ceremony there. In the civil wedding, the clerk or judge will sign the license. In the religious service, the religious leader will sign the license. The license is then mailed in to the county clerk's office to be copied and registered and then the original document is returned to the couple in the mail.

 

[Imanmajed]

It depends on what you mean by "Westerners". Perhaps we need a European culture & an American culture thread to go with your UAE culture thread. In general, the culture and values of Europeans and Americans can, at times, be very different.

Maybe I have generalized too much. My mistake! But my analysis were based on this case and the lifestyle in France only. To my knowledge, there isn´t any particular form of public disgrace in a relationship without marriage in France. Rather, it is the preferred choice of many young French women.

Americans tend to be more conservative, especially in the Southern states. In my community, living together without being married is frowned upon. Having a child without being married could be quite scandalous.

Surprisingly, I did not know that America is so conservative in some parts of the country. Good to know!

 

[Imanmajed]

... about dangerous men.....

I need a definition of that!

As we know now,she has been married by Islamic standards - a wedding bow IMO is a promise to the partner that you want to stay together and have a family. That´s why I get furious when you say that Cohen-Agnine got "foolishly" pregnant. If you are married-no matter under what ritus,it means that your relationship is a more stable one and not just a romantic adventure.

Maybe that was also Mrs. candice view. But does he had the same reason for this kind of relationship?

The Prince should have talked about his family situation honestly-tell her that she will not be his wife and that he has to marry a cousin which he knew for a long time. If you get married you have to tell your partner everything that is important to the relationship and anything that might change his decision to live with you for the rest of your life.

Maybe he never had the intention to perform a real marriage with her. Maybe he thought, it is not important to tell her anything about his family situation or the woman from his family, who was envisaged for him.

 

[Imanmajed]

The only reason that I called it "foolish" was because I thought I read that the marriage didn't take place until after Haya (or is it Aya?) was born.

The girls name is Aya, means "miracle", "sign" or "verse (of the Quran)" in arabic.

It's a really a shame that religion is being made such a big deal of in this case when it appears that neither party had any inclination of living up to the tenets of their so-called faith.

The religion plays no role in this case. The media extend this point artificially.

 

[blauerengel]

Sorry,before we talk about wheter she was in rehab or not we should make sure if she was really addicted or not.
As far as i know we only know about the anti-depressants 100% sure.

If all that drugs were really found in her body we still don´t know
a) if she had taken them herself or maybe mixed into a drink/food,infused by blood-we cannot rule out any of that cases
b) if C-A had taken them herself-wheter she had used drugs for a longer time
c)supposed C-A was an addict,why didn´t the French authorities know about it?
They do extensive interviews and research for every custody case,it can take many months just to collect all the data and information about the parents and their lifestyle,without that the court doesn´t make a decision.
A serious affection by substance abuse would never be unnoticed-because it doesn´t only show in your behaviour but also on your body. (e.g.your skin gets blank,you swet a lot,the pupils are dilated,often the addicts have red or swollen eyes,many have bad skin and don´t look after their body etc.)
Anyone with a little bit of common sense can notice a heavy drug addiction,it doesn´t need anexpert to see such signs.
Just like anorexia or bulimia you can see it,you don´t need to study psychology or medicine to notice that something is not quite right.

 

[charlieprk]

Sorry,before we talk about wheter she was in rehab or not we should make sure if she was really addicted or not.
As far as i know we only know about the anti-depressants 100% sure.

I quoted the official police forensic toxicology report in post #105 & gave the link to the French newspaper, Libération, that printed it. That report is what was used by the police to decide whether the death accidental or not and whether charges should be filed. Libération is a left-wing progressive newspaper that focuses on things like feminism and women's rights. They are not out to bash Candice. Given France's strict libel laws, they would not have printed such an accusation if it wasn't true.

A serious affection by substance abuse would never be unnoticed-because it doesn´t only show in your behaviour but also on your body. (e.g.your skin gets blank,you swet a lot,the pupils are dilated,often the addicts have red or swollen eyes,many have bad skin and don´t look after their body etc.)
Anyone with a little bit of common sense can notice a heavy drug addiction,it doesn´t need anexpert to see such signs.
Just like anorexia or bulimia you can see it,you don´t need to study psychology or medicine to notice that something is not quite right.

That may be true of drugs like crack, meth or heroin but not necessarily of drugs like cocaine or marijuana. Cocaine is actually considered a "white-collar" drug because many professionals use it and go completely unnoticed. Only someone very close to them, such as a spouse or a family member would notice behavioral symptoms. Unless you saw the user when they were high (and they usually only do that when alone or with other "drug buddies") then you wouldn't notice the pupil dilation and red eyes. Red, swollen eyes can also be attributed to allergies or smoking. Also, Candice appears to have had dark brown eyes which would make it more difficult for someone to notice dilated pupils.

 

[blauerengel]

I quoted the official police forensic toxicology report in post #105 & gave the link to the French newspaper, Libération, that printed it. That report is what was used by the police to decide whether the death accidental or not and whether charges should be filed. Libération is a left-wing progressive newspaper that focuses on things like feminism and women's rights. They are not out to bash Candice. Given France's strict libel laws, they would not have printed such an accusation if it wasn't true.

I don´t doubt that the police reported anything wrong,but we still don´t know if she had taken that substances by herself or if she got it in some way.You might know that some women get "KO-drops" mixed into their drink when they go out because men want to have it easier to take them home and do with them what they want-so we can´t definitely say that Cohen-Agnine took that drugs on her free will.
The only thing that was officially known are the anti-depressants,they were probably prescribed by a doctor to help her stand through the difficulties.

Furthermore,it is not so rare that such tests get confused or the probes mixed up with others-for instance it happened to my brother that his blood was tested positive on a very dangerous illness when we were on holiday and when we checked again in Austria there was nothing-they told us that probes get confused and mis-labeled fom time to time.That´s why we should not take such tests 100% sure,as we do not know who tested,where was it tested,did they make any errors?
Errarum humanum est, as we say.The police and the hospitals make mistakes that sometimes can be very dangerous.My mother works as a nurse and they have a lot of work,they are always overworked & with stress+tiredness they sometimes give patients the wrong medicine.It is not because they are lazy or maligne-even if you are careful you can make mistakes,that´s life.

There have been several muder cases where men were imprisoned for a crime they didn´t commit just because their DNA was in a strange place or confused with someone else´s.
Just read that story,it is the most prominent case of Dr. DNA giving false directions to the police:
Germany's Phantom Serial Killer: A DNA Blunder - TIME
(That case gave me around 136.000 hits on google!I typed in "murder wrong DNA cotton buds")

AFAIK the rate of people on the death row who get imprisoned innocent is around 34% -I would call the US sytem highly developed and efficient,but it proofs that even with good work ethic &modern methods you can´t be 100% sure that your findings are really correct.

Here´s some more for you to read:
Innocence and the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center

 

[Imanmajed]

c)supposed C-A was an addict,why didn´t the French authorities know about it?

Now they know it! Unfortunately, only after her death.

 

[Imanmajed]

A serious affection by substance abuse would never be unnoticed-because it doesn´t only show in your behaviour but also on your body. (e.g.your skin gets blank,you swet a lot,the pupils are dilated,often the addicts have red or swollen eyes,many have bad skin and don´t look after their body etc.)
Anyone with a little bit of common sense can notice a heavy drug addiction,it doesn´t need anexpert to see such signs.
Just like anorexia or bulimia you can see it,you don´t need to study psychology or medicine to notice that something is not quite right.

I haven´t studied psychology or medicine but I think, all of these external identification marks occur very late, when an advanced stage of drug addiction is reached. If you're not poor, you can hide a dependency for a long time. Often the use of drugs will be held in private if no outsider has access. Mrs. Candice fight for her daughter in court, so she will have been careful to conceal a possible suspicion of dependence.

 

[Imanmajed]

I don´t doubt that the police reported anything wrong,but we still don´t know if she had taken that substances by herself or if she got it in some way.You might know that some women get "KO-drops" mixed into their drink when they go out because men want to have it easier to take them home and do with them what they want-so we can´t definitely say that Cohen-Agnine took that drugs on her free will.

What do you think: Who should have given her the drugs in secret, without her free will? For what reason? At the same time only her husband (I mean Alain Cucumel, not Prince Sattam) was with her in the apartment. With this toxic cocktail, which was found in her blood by police after her death, she will not be able to walk, if she do not have all of this drugs regularly.

 

[blauerengel]

This is fascinating to me! So, in Austria, if you want your religious marriage to be legal, you would have to have two weddings? What a pain! I can see why most just opt for a civil service.

Well,the civic wedding can be done in a few minutes,you just sign the papers in front of a civil servant (they are specially trained and university-educated) and than you can go.It´s not a long or painful event

 

[blauerengel]

I haven´t studied psychology or medicine but I think, all of these external identification marks occur very late, when an advanced stage of drug addiction is reached. If you're not poor, you can hide a dependency for a long time. Often the use of drugs will be held in private if no outsider has access. Mrs. Candice fight for her daughter in court, so she will have been careful to conceal a possible suspicion of dependence.

That might be true,it is different with every drug and every person.
Drugs like crystal are showing effects very soon,just in a few months a pretty girl can turn into an ugly creature with bad hair,dirty clothes and her skin will have many red dots-it looks very awful and the degeneration goes very quickly.
For marijuana if you don´t do it too often (many ppl take it for relaxation) it won´t have such drastic effects but it usually reddens your eyes.Here are some symptoms put together by professional team who helps drug-addicts: Marijuana Addiction - Symptoms, Signs and Side Effects of Marijuana Abuse & Addiction - Timberline Knolls


We don´t know if she was given the drugs or if she may have taken a glass that her husband prepared for himself,however with so much drugs in her blood and that much weight I think her actions and body must have been impaired heavily.Additional to her weight (which was around 100kg according to charlieprk) climbing manoeuvers seem very unlikely to me,but of course we can´t know.We only know that she was not actively pushed down,only that she might have tried to get to another room,run away from something or maybe she had visions which made her uncontrollable.

 

[Imanmajed]

Well,the civic wedding can be done in a few minutes,you just sign the papers in front of a civil servant (they are specially trained and university-educated) and than you can go.It´s not a long or painful event

I agree with you! If a marriage is seen as a "long, painful event", what will be the divorce?

 

[Imanmajed]

We don´t know if she was given the drugs or if she may have taken a glass that her husband prepared for himself,however with so much drugs in her blood and that much weight I think her actions and body must have been impaired heavily.Additional to her weight (which was around 100kg according to charlieprk) climbing manoeuvers seem very unlikely to me,but of course we can´t know.We only know that she was not actively pushed down,only that she might have tried to get to another room,run away from something or maybe she had visions which made her uncontrollable.

Well, all of that can be possible. From the pictures of the appartment you could see that windows had a small balcony and start from the floor. This made the climbing easy, also for a person under the influence of a lot of drugs.

 

[charlieprk]

I agree with you! If a marriage is seen as a "long, painful event", what will be the divorce?

Relief!

 

[Imanmajed]

Relief!

True! Some couples start with the end!

 

[blauerengel]

It´s a little bit like the French movie 5x2 -http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0354356/,I just read the summary of the plot and different than other love movies it starts with the divorce!

Another question to charlieprk-You said that you have read her book,can you tell us where you bought/ordered it as I am sure there are other ppl who would like to read it as well!Thanks

 

[charlieprk]

I don´t doubt that the police reported anything wrong,but we still don´t know if she had taken that substances by herself or if she got it in some way.You might know that some women get "KO-drops" mixed into their drink when they go out because men want to have it easier to take them home and do with them what they want-so we can´t definitely say that Cohen-Agnine took that drugs on her free will.

It seems that you want to defend Candice at any cost.

KO-drops and Rohypnol "the date rape drug" were not found in in the toxicology report. Autopsy and toxicology reports can easily tell if someone ingested drugs orally or if they were smoked or snorted. That was not found in this case.

Cocaine doesn't even have the same effect if swallowed which is why people never do that. Swallowing cocaine can be deadly and the investigators would have noted the damage to her stomach if that happened. If the autopsy showed that someone had snuck her drugs, or if a date rape situation was suspected, that would be all over the news. The family would be crying for justice and the police would be looking to make an arrest. That has not happened.

 

[charlieprk]

It´s a little bit like the French movie 5x2 -http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0354356/,I just read the summary of the plot and different than other love movies it starts with the divorce!

Another question to charlieprk-You said that you have read her book,can you tell us where you bought/ordered it as I am sure there are other ppl who would like to read it as well!Thanks

Sounds interesting. I'll have to look for that movie.


No, I haven't read the book. I only read French news articles that quoted the book. You can find them on Google if you know some French. I wish I could find the book! It would answer a lot of questions!

 

[blauerengel]

Yes,that´s true! There are so many open questions and with our current state of information we can only speculate.The book would allow us to clear many strange questions surrounding the kind of relationship they had and the marriage-which is very confusing.A lot of contradicting gossip is going around which makes it difficult to fully understand the case and know what is right and wrong.

 

[Imanmajed]

The book "Rendez-moi ma fille" by Candice Cohen-Ahnine is available on these three online booksellers, by the first link even as an e-book:

http://www.decitre.fr/livres/rendez-...809805451.html
http://livre.fnac.com/a3675342/Candi...z-moi-ma-fille
http://www.priceminister.com/offer/b...en-ahnine.html

Maybe this information will be helpfull for you to find an answer for some of your outstanding issues. Unfortunately, the books are only available in French and on the european market. But I fear that it highlights only one side and keep the other in the dark.

 

[Sephora]

Prince Sattam, father of Aya daughter of Candice Cohen-Ahnin is the same prince Sattam who died last february?

 

[Lenora]

Prince Sattam, father of Aya daughter of Candice Cohen-Ahnin is the same prince Sattam who died last february?

No.
Now,nearly a year after apparent suicide of Candice, the father of her daughter, Prince Sattam will be interviewed under caution by police investigating strange circumstances of Candice's death.

Mort de Candice Cohen : le mari soupçonné - 16/06/2013 - leParisien.fr
"Rendez-moi ma fille!". Le mari de Candice Cohen-Anine en examen - Paris Match

 

[COUNTESS]

Right and how much money will exchange hands. And, if it was an "apparent suicide", why question anyone? And if it was "apparent", why is it strange circumstances?

 

[Lenora]

Right and how much money will exchange hands. And, if it was an "apparent suicide", why question anyone? And if it was "apparent", why is it strange circumstances?

Probably here they used diplomatic terms.

 

[blauerengel]

No.
Now,nearly a year after apparent suicide of Candice, the father of her daughter, Prince Sattam will be interviewed under caution by police investigating strange circumstances of Candice's death.

Mort de Candice Cohen*: le mari soupçonné - 16/06/2013 - leParisien.fr
"Rendez-moi ma fille!". Le mari de Candice Cohen-Anine en examen - Paris Match

Even if they can´t punish him for his actions, I feel better that at least they are questioning him. This will certainly make him feel uncomfortable and maybe he regrets how he has handled the whole situation. I really hope that Candice Cohen Agnine´s daughter has a good life & someone who also looks after her emotional well-being and happiness.

 

[Imanmajed]

No.
Now,nearly a year after apparent suicide of Candice, the father of her daughter, Prince Sattam will be interviewed under caution by police investigating strange circumstances of Candice's death.

Mort de Candice Cohen*: le mari soupçonné - 16/06/2013 - leParisien.fr
"Rendez-moi ma fille!". Le mari de Candice Cohen-Anine en examen - Paris Match

The short article does not specify whether is meant with "husband", Prince Sattam or the man who was married with her at the time of her death and on the day of tragedy was also present ​​in the apartment. I do not think that the article refers to Prince Sattam. He was not in the apartment or in the near of her at the fatal day. Maybe there is also no chance to questioning him by french court or police because he is constantly staying in KSA. Any further news in this case in English available?

 

[berber princess]

A little bit I can tell you from listening to the interviews (it may be that I misunderstood some things but I am trying to do my best):
She has met the Prince when she was in London in 1998,Cohen was 18 back than and her daughter Aya arrived three years later (enough time to tell her that he could not make her his official wife and explain why...)there was something about a hospital in Egypt where she woke up and afterwards she went back to Paris but I didn´t quite understand all of it-was it after giving birth or did she have an accident? However,that made her reevaluate her relationship but the Prince tried to win her back and she sais that the "love came back" and he provided her with a princess life-own appartment in the Palace in Ryadh,chauffeur etc.There were plans that they get married but short before the wedding plans were finalised she got the information that he has to marry his cousin who would than be the Prince´s first and official wife.Cohen-Agnine didn´t want to be hidden like a shame and live the life of a mistress and therefore she went back to Europe because the prospct of being a secret wife was completely unacceptable to her.So she went back to Europe and got information about what she could do in her situation,how can she get back her daughter and her family and friends were very worried for her.
QUOTE]

Your efforts are noticed, don't worry
However, To avoid making erroneous interpretation , I will post the entire translation of the interview when I come back.

Actually, there are some incorrect statements

 

[COUNTESS]

She was a fool, IMHO, some how he had her murdered. But what is new with these people. A whole bunch of junk for people who think they can have several wives and a lot of mistresses and it is, pardon the expression, "Kosher".

 

[berber princess]

No.
Now,nearly a year after apparent suicide of Candice, the father of her daughter, Prince Sattam will be interviewed under caution by police investigating strange circumstances of Candice's death.

Mort de Candice Cohen*: le mari soupçonné - 16/06/2013 - leParisien.fr
"Rendez-moi ma fille!". Le mari de Candice Cohen-Anine en examen - Paris Match

Allow me to add a rectification : the article reads that Candice C-A's husband has been charged with " psychological violence causing death". The man isn't Prince Sattam, but Alain Cucumel , a French-Israeli man to whom she married in 2011.
He was her 2nd husband.

According to some witnesses, they had an arguement, and Candice CA tried to reach her neighbours' flat through the window and fell over.