The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > Royal and Ruling Families of the Gulf States

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #41  
Old 02-28-2016, 04:33 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: san diego, United States
Posts: 5,732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
I don't know what Mary was supposed to wear but her hosts can't have been too insulted, because during the day, she was asked to dine with the Kings sisters.
I agree. How nice that she got the invitation to dine with the sisters.
In this picture we can see Mary's lady in waiting and another female minister without their head covered but respectfully dressed.
http://www.spa.gov.sa/galupload/norm...6656329095.jpg

and some pictures of Frederik trying a local drink and food. I think the sun was too bright but he looks wonderful
http://riyadhconnect.net/latest-saud...8A%D8%A9-3.jpg
http://riyadhconnect.net/latest-saud...8A%D8%A9-2.jpg
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 02-28-2016, 05:30 PM
Roskilde's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Roskilde, Denmark
Posts: 3,590
A few more pictures from today:

https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...2a&oe=5752E283
https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...4d&oe=5754F49F
https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...26&oe=57606787

Tomorrow, the actual official visit will begin :)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Terri Terri View Post
I have 2 questions...How long is the flight from Copenhagen to Saudi Arabia?
It takes about 8-16 hours depending on how many stopovers along the way. It's clear these official trips is no pleasure, but hard work. However, F&M can skip the worst jetlags on this official trip as Saudi Arabia is only 2 hours ahead of Danish time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
After the lunch Frederik went to have dinner at the Danish embassy, while Mary went with the King's two sisters, Latifa and Al Jawhara. Their dinner took place at Princess Latifa's residence.

Tomorrow it will be down to business.

Notice the handshaking video. There are two men who do not shake hands with Mary. The first one greet her politely though, while the second one was in my eyes about to pass right by her, when she stretched out her hand, which he refused. I thought that was a bit rude.
I personally think it too was a bit weird to see that one of the men didn't shake our Crown Princess' hand - just because she is a woman. But again she shows her strength by not letting such disrespectful actions seen - she smiled and pretended like nothing.
- Of course, there has prior to the visit been a good briefing, where the Crown Prince couple have been told that this could happen - but I think it was well handled, anyway.

We know how obviously very proud Frederik is of his wife, so I can imagine he found it weird to look at too when one of the men didn't shake his wife's hand.

It's a difficult task which the Danish government has put our skilled Crown Prince Couple in at this official visit. But they are doing it well!
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 02-28-2016, 05:52 PM
carlota's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: , United States
Posts: 7,063
i guess mary has had people of her entourage and protocolar aides investigating whether she should or should not cover her head, so i doubt this is a protocolar mistake. she is not saudi, so i guess some degree of liberty exists for women on diplomatic missions like her.

in the same manner as frederik is not wearing the long robe that the saudis are wearing, but instead just wearing normal clothes, i doubt the same behaviour expected of saudi women is expected of mary (which is not to say that this would apply to other non royal women).
__________________
Sign the United Nations Universal Declaration on Animal Welfare: http://www.animalsmatter.org
YOUR DAILY CLICK HELPS ANIMALS SURVIVE!
Feed an animal in need, click for free.
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Take some time to sign the petitions @: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/animal-welfare/all
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 02-28-2016, 06:37 PM
Tarlita's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: small town near Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 1,026
Queen Margrethe Saudi visit 1984

Some photos of Queen Margrethe in 1984 Saudi visit and her attire.
I am also sure in the preparation meetings for this trip Marys head covering was discussed at length.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Saudi 1984 King Fahd ibn Abdul Aziz in Dhahran.jpg
Views:	397
Size:	38.0 KB
ID:	297850   Click image for larger version

Name:	SaudiArabia sightseeing 1984.jpg
Views:	110
Size:	68.2 KB
ID:	297851  
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 02-28-2016, 07:04 PM
carlota's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: , United States
Posts: 7,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roskilde View Post
But again she shows her strength by not letting such disrespectful actions seen - she smiled and pretended like nothing.
- Of course, there has prior to the visit been a good briefing, where the Crown Prince couple have been told that this could happen - but I think it was well handled, anyway.
i doubt we can call them 'disrespectful' because of not wanting to shake a hand of a woman. it's just their culture and these are deeply held beliefs with religious origins. touching a woman is just not the done thing in saudi, or any deeply muslim, culture.
__________________
Sign the United Nations Universal Declaration on Animal Welfare: http://www.animalsmatter.org
YOUR DAILY CLICK HELPS ANIMALS SURVIVE!
Feed an animal in need, click for free.
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
Take some time to sign the petitions @: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/animal-welfare/all
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 02-28-2016, 07:45 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,938
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlota View Post
i doubt we can call them 'disrespectful' because of not wanting to shake a hand of a woman. it's just their culture and these are deeply held beliefs with religious origins. touching a woman is just not the done thing in saudi, or any deeply muslim, culture.

What makes it disrespectful isn't that he didn't want to shake her hand. That's a cultural belief that should be respected - and it looks like she's respecting it. There seems to be more to it in the video though - he almost walked past her without any greeting.

In the video one of the first men in the procession doesn't shake Mary's hand (and she doesn't extend her hand to be shaken), but rather nods his head in greeting to her. This is respectful on both sides - she's not pushing him to shake her hand, but he's not ignoring her presence.

Then there's the men who do shake her hand, and it looks to me like they're all extending first (some of them seem to just keep their hand out from shaking Frederik's).

Then near the end of it there's a man who shakes Fred's hand then seems to turn away from Mary without acknowledgement until she extends her hand - it's kind of rude of her to do so, sure, but really she's just forcing him to not acknowledge her.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 02-28-2016, 08:09 PM
Muhler's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 8,767
Agree. In the TV2 news tonight, there were quite a few men who walked right past Mary, without even looking at her.
And that is rude behavior in my book!
She is after all an official representative for a foreign country and an honored guest of the King.

Not shaking her hand is no problem, that's the custom for some in the country, and when in Rome... Many at least greeted her politely and respectfully by putting their hands over their hearts.
But ignoring her is IMO rude and cannot be excused by religion.

And as a Dane I do feel a bit offended at such behavior towards my Crown Princess.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 02-28-2016, 08:12 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,938
Muhler, as a woman I find it offensive. To me it says something about the men who take the time to acknowledge her even if they don't shake her hand, and something completely different about those who ignored her presence.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 02-28-2016, 08:14 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: san diego, United States
Posts: 5,732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roskilde View Post
Love the first two pictures. Wonderful smile and respectful nature from both.

Some more pictures of them arriving.
http://ekstrabladet.dk/incoming/ivlj...0Saudi-Arabien
http://imageservice.nordjyske.dk/ima...&bgcolor=black

and from Saturday's arrival
http://www.spa.gov.sa/galupload/norm...6612953535.JPG
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 02-29-2016, 04:27 AM
eya eya is offline
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: -, Greece
Posts: 5,412
Crown Princess Mary and Prince Frederick in Saudi Arabia | Daily Mail Online
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 02-29-2016, 04:40 AM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Grand Couteau, United States
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlota View Post
i doubt we can call them 'disrespectful' because of not wanting to shake a hand of a woman. it's just their culture and these are deeply held beliefs with religious origins. touching a woman is just not the done thing in saudi, or any deeply muslim, culture.
Honestly, it is Muslim culture, one deeply held religious belief is that a woman is the property of her father if she is unmarried, and her husband's property if married. Women cannot drive in SA and must be accompanied by her father, a brother, or husband, with her face covered if leaving her home. It is not our culture nor do we condone it, but these are norms there. Mary handled the situation in the best possible way.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 02-29-2016, 05:09 AM
Hannelore's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: T., Belgium
Posts: 2,270
What a strange place this country is ... Makes me very glad to enjoy my freedom! Let's hope some of the positive sides of Saudi Arabia will be highlighted too.

In this photo: who is the woman walking behind Mary? http://imageservice.nordjyske.dk/ima...&bgcolor=black
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 02-29-2016, 06:59 AM
Muhler's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 8,767
BT has an account of the first day and seems like the journalist is not impressed.
However, the article also provides a number of details.
Pinlig Saudi-situation: Mænd nægtede at give hånd til Mary - Politik | www.bt.dk

Journalists from six Danish medias accompany M&F, but they didn't see them at all yesterday. The photos and clips were made by a DK photographer and a cameraman, selected on the spur it seems.

There is also an explanation of the Saudi dress code:
About half of the Saudi women wear a Niqab, that covers everything apart from the eyes.
The rest wear a scarf (hajib).
Western women need not cover their hair, but the rest of the body must be covered. As such the female Danish press members have been issued an abaya. A long loose-fitting black dress that go from the neck to to the feet.

The Danish photographer who was allowed in, was Tariq Mikkel Khan from Ekstra Bladet and here is his account:
- Only one if four of the many men who passed by to greet the CP-couple, shook hands with the Crown Princess, while everyone shook hands with the Crown Prince.
Mary was apparently not briefed as to who would shake hands and who wouldn't. So in the beginning of the seance she put forward her hand several times, without that being returned.
Over time she became more passive and waited to see if the person put forward the hand.

"There was a long queue of Arabs who were to greet the CP-couple and after that a lavish lunch, where there were more servants than guests. Only one in four would shake hands with Mary, while the all shook hands with Frederik. She stood looking a little hesitant, when they wouldn't shake her hand"

And while we are at it, the article has a little more on women's rights:
Only a few years ago were women allowed to have their own ID-card with photo (divorcees and widows apparently only last year). Previously they were under first their father and later their husband (presumably in the ID-card). Saudi Arabia is the only country in the world where women are not allowed to drive cars. The explanation is that they must be protected against being raped, if they are forced to stop and get out of the car.
Women are not allowed to go around in public, without the permission of their husband, so-called witches are beheaded.

Executions and other forms of punishments takes place at public squares. unannounced. But when people can see something is about to happen, they are free to come closer and witness the punishment.

The Danish Foreign Minister, Kristian Jensen, explains why M&F were required to go to Saudi Arabia: "It brings more attention to have them along. And there is a tradition for them also coming along on visits to problematic countries. They have for example also been to China. Saudi Arabia has a really bad standing in regards to human rights, but we also co-operate with them in fighting Islamic State. I also believe we can influence Saudi Arabia positively by trading with them".

- Right. I still feel offended on behalf of Mary - and myself. She's an official and highly regarded representative of my country, so when she's snubbed, I'm snubbed!
I don't buy the argument about this being the local way of showing respect for Mary. I.e. by not touching her hand or look at her. That may apply locally. But Mary is a foreigner and a guest so you have to compromise.
I wouldn't touch a Muslim women on say her shoulder, as I would with a non-Muslim woman, even if I knew her pretty well. Not until it's clear it's okay. But I would expect her to shake my hand if offered. That's a compromise. If I can, why the H can't they?

Another thing, some of you may remember quite a number of years ago, that a fire broke out at a girls school in Saudi Arabia. A considerable number of girls died.
Reason: The Religious Police refused the girls to get out as they were not covered up according to the rules of public attire. So the girls died.
That caused an uproar, even in Saudi Arabia, but AFAIK no one were prosecuted.

-----------------

A similar account from Ekstra Bladet: http://ekstrabladet.dk/flash/kongeli...-haand/5972446
With video. At least these men nodded to her.

With the added info, that Mary as apparently the only one has not been issued an Abbaya robe. Her VIP-status means she can dress as she pleases. - (Within reason of course).
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 02-29-2016, 07:32 AM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Singapore, Singapore
Posts: 33
Do they arrive already in Saudi Arabia?


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 02-29-2016, 08:00 AM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Singapore, Singapore
Posts: 33
Sorry my mistakes, i hadnt see the thread🙏🏼🙏🏼


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 02-29-2016, 08:43 AM
GracieGiraffe's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Giraffe Land, United States
Posts: 2,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post

Another thing, some of you may remember quite a number of years ago, that a fire broke out at a girls school in Saudi Arabia. A considerable number of girls died.
Reason: The Religious Police refused the girls to get out as they were not covered up according to the rules of public attire. So the girls died.
That caused an uproar, even in Saudi Arabia, but AFAIK no one were prosecuted.

Which puts into perspective what happened yesterday.

Mary was obviously the better person yesterday. Probably didn't want to have to touch those "gentlemen" either (using the term loosely). So it was a win-win for everybody.
__________________
The future George VII's opinion on infant carriers,
"One is not amused."
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 02-29-2016, 08:57 AM
Muhler's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 8,767
Here is the fire-story:
15 girls die as zealots 'drive them into blaze' - Telegraph
BBC News | MIDDLE EAST | Saudi police 'stopped' fire rescue
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_M...9;_school_fire

Slightly off topic, but it provides a view of the extreme conservatism and extreme interpretation of Islam that is dominant in Saudi Arabia.
It's totally incomprehensible to me personally, but provides an explanation as to why some men refused Mary's hand, let alone acknowledging her.

I think this visit will make Mary even more determined to advocate women's rights.
It's one thing to read about it and hear about it, but to experience being discriminated herself just because of her gender, puts things in another perspective.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 02-29-2016, 09:24 AM
rubies's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: daytona beach, United States
Posts: 2,699
If your religon or beliefs means your disrepectful.......ridiculous. They can call it culture.... I know too much to know its more than that.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 02-29-2016, 10:08 AM
Muhler's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 8,767
It's now down to business for M&F and this is the first account of todays events, from BB: Kronprinsesse Mary og kronprins Frederik klippede snoren til erhvervsfremstød i Saudi Arabien | BILLED-BLADET

Together with a representative from Riyadhs Chamber of Commerce, M&F - standing side by side - opened the Danish Saudi Business Forum.
Frederik gave a speech for the 300 invited guests after which M&F strolled around the various booths set up by Danish businesses.

As M&F are not to say anything remotely political during this visit, BB instead quotes the Foreign Minister, Kristian Jensen: "The CP-couple opens more doors, the businesses get better opportunities for creating growth and jobs in Denmark. That's what we want to accomplish from this trip".
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 02-29-2016, 10:19 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: xxx, Finland
Posts: 617
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Together with a representative from Riyadhs Chamber of Commerce, M&F - standing side by side - opened the Danish Saudi Business Forum.
Are you sure Mary was there... This is the "official version":
"Then, the Crown Prince of Denmark and Dr. Abdulrahman Al-Zamil also opened the exhibition which highlighted the possible partnership opportunities of Danish companies."
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Official Visit to Saudi-Arabia, February 2016 Duke of Marmalade King Felipe VI, Queen Letizia and Family 20 11-12-2016 06:50 PM
Prince of Wales: Visit to Kuwait, Saudi Arabia & Qatar - February 8-12, 2015 JessRulz Royal and Ruling Families of the Gulf States 31 02-13-2015 07:01 PM
Prince of Wales: Visit to Saudi Arabia and Qatar - February 17-20, 2014 muriel Royal and Ruling Families of the Gulf States 15 02-21-2014 09:33 AM
Mohammed VI Visit to Saudi Arabia,Qatar,United Arab Emirates and Kuwait: October 2012 shrifia Royal and Ruling Families of the Gulf States 11 10-29-2012 06:24 PM
Prince Frederik's Official Visit to Saudi Arabia & Qatar: January 15-17, 2010 dazzling Royal and Ruling Families of the Gulf States 21 01-19-2010 08:07 PM




Popular Tags
ascot 2016 best gown best gown september 2016 best hat best outfit catherine middleton style coup d'etat crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion crown princess mette-marit current events duchess of cambridge e-mail fashion poll fox news grahamm grand duke jean greece kate middleton king abdulah ii king abdullah ii king felipe king felipe vi king willem-alexander member introduction monarchy new zealand nobel gala norway november 2016 october 2016 opening of parliament picture of the week prince bernhard prince charles princess eugenie eveningwear princess ingrid alexandra princess madeleine princess marie princess mary princess mary daytime fashion princess mary fashion princess mary hats queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen letizia style queen mathilde queen mathildes outfits queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania revolution royal fashion september 2016 state visit state visit to denmark succession sweden the duchess of cambridge the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:57 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016
Jelsoft Enterprises