Serbia: The House of Obrenovic

[Marc23]

The fact is that in Serbia exist the Royal House of Obrenovic and of course H.R.H. Prince Predrag Jakovljevic de Obrenovic as its first Head and the hereditary Prince

Who gave him the title?

During the reign of Obrenovic family, Jakovljevic family didn't have any titles.

Even descendants of Jevrem Obrenovic, full brother of Prince Milosh didn't held any titles prior to Serbia invited them to be rulers, despite being male line collateral branch of the family.

How can a female line relative of the family have titles if a male line relatives didn't have any titles during the reign of Milos,Milan and Michail???

 

[milosmilanovcanin]

This is exactly what you do not know. Not all documents were available to public and history. Something has existed within the family which are still preserved. This is enough to be able to say.
The descendants of Jacob Obrenovic after vile assassination of King Aleksandar Obrenovic become his legal successor in every sense.

 

[Marc23]

Ahhh, that's the catch.

A document which is not available to public and history.

Thnx, it was enough to say.

 

[MAfan]

The thread has been cleaned up.

First of all - and as a general rule of behaviour - I would like to remind to the participants to this discussion to treat each other with the due education and respect.

With regards to the prosecution of this discussion, I also would like to remind that claims and opinions should be based on factual informations, which should be backed up by references to the sources of them.
This is, clearly, the only way to allow the evaluation of the seriousness of any claim.
While such informations and sources have been provided to refute the Jakovljevic claims, on the contrary not any of them has been provided in support of them.
Unless they are provided, it will not be possible to appreciate the relative claims.

Thanks for your understanding.

MAfan
Serbian Forum Moderator

 

[Marc23]

Thank you for this answer.

Don't have anything against Jakovljevic family...they should get what they are left in Queen Natalia's testament, as it is a document that provides how someone wanted to distribute his/her private fortune.

But, to call yourself a HRH Prince, thus not descending from any Prince or King and without any document or written proof about your title, is just too much to argue about.

 

[MichelleAnderson]

I have two questions I cannot find answers to. I am not Serbian, nor do I know any Serbians, so if the answers are in that language, I can't get anyone to translate them.

Would someone be so kind as to answer two questions for me?

1. How did Miloš Obrenović die? I was thinking natural causes, bit he was a bit on the young side, and I remember reading somewhere (whether true or false) that Prince Milan II was the only Serbian monarch to die of natural causes...

2. I can find very little about Prince Milan II and read in Wikipedia or Britannica that he "never regained consciousness" and probably didn't ever know he was the Prince of Serbia. Was he in a coma before he ascended to the throne? Was it tuberculosis?

Thank anyone who can help.

-- Michelle

 

[Marc23]

I have two questions I cannot find answers to. I am not Serbian, nor do I know any Serbians, so if the answers are in that language, I can't get anyone to translate them.

Would someone be so kind as to answer two questions for me?

1. How did Miloš Obrenović die? I was thinking natural causes, bit he was a bit on the young side, and I remember reading somewhere (whether true or false) that Prince Milan II was the only Serbian monarch to die of natural causes...

2. I can find very little about Prince Milan II and read in Wikipedia or Britannica that he "never regained consciousness" and probably didn't ever know he was the Prince of Serbia. Was he in a coma before he ascended to the throne? Was it tuberculosis?

Thank anyone who can help.

-- Michelle

Prince Milosh died of natural causes. He was already 80 when he died which was considered old at that time.

His son, Prince Milan was already bed ridden due to tuberculosis when he ascended to the throne. At first, he was conscious, but as he never signed any official document in 26 days of his rule, it is not clear whether he knew that he was an actual ruler. During his reign, Serbia was ruled by 3 regents and there are rumors that they told him that his father went for a trip, so that's why we don't know did he knew that he was an actual ruler or still the son of a ruler who went abroad.

Except Milan and Milosh, there was also Prince Alexander Karadjordjevic (Ruling Prince from 1842-1858), father of King Peter I, who died of natural causes in 1885, although already in exile. King Milan of Serbia, father of King Alexander, also died of natural causes (pneumonia) in exile. King Peter I of Serbia also died of natural causes. He was 75 at that time.

 

[theroyalfly]

Today in Royal History is the 143rd birthday of Alexander I of Serbia of the House of Obrenović. He married the widowed Madame Draga Mašin, formerly a lady-in-waiting to his mother and 12 years his senior. Following the May Coup (Serbia), they were murdered and their bodies mutilated and disemboweled. He was 26 years old when he died.

 

[Countessmeout]

Today in Royal History is the 143rd birthday of Alexander I of Serbia of the House of Obrenović. He married the widowed Madame Draga Mašin, formerly a lady-in-waiting to his mother and 12 years his senior. Following the May Coup (Serbia), they were murdered and their bodies mutilated and disemboweled. He was 26 years old when he died.

Yeah and then thrown out a second story window onto a manure pile.

It could have been avoided if Alexander had continued with the agreed plan that Prince Mirko of Montenegro would succeed him to the throne if he had no children. Mirko's wife was a great-granddaughter of Princess Anka of Serbia. He instead proclaimed his wife's brother as his heir.

Instead of Mirko, Mirko's brother in law Peter was chosen King after the coup.

One of those stories of what ifs. Even what if he had not married Draga but married the woman his father had been in negotiations to marry him to. Had he married Princess Alexandra of Schaumberg-Lippe would he have lived to reign for years?

They were assassinated by members of the Black Hand, the same organization that would later assassinate Franz Ferdinand.

 

[theroyalfly]

Yeah and then thrown out a second story window onto a manure pile.

It could have been avoided if Alexander had continued with the agreed plan that Prince Mirko of Montenegro would succeed him to the throne if he had no children. Mirko's wife was a great-granddaughter of Princess Anka of Serbia. He instead proclaimed his wife's brother as his heir.

Instead of Mirko, Mirko's brother in law Peter was chosen King after the coup.

One of those stories of what ifs. Even what if he had not married Draga but married the woman his father had been in negotiations to marry him to. Had he married Princess Alexandra of Schaumberg-Lippe would he have lived to reign for years?

They were assassinated by members of the Black Hand, the same organization that would later assassinate Franz Ferdinand.

Indeed, if Alexander was just a loving and doting son to his parents, this would not have happened.

Milan, his father, was brought back to Serbia by Alexander and was appointed commander-in-chief of the Serbian army in 1898. Two years later, Alexander announed his engagement to Draga and did not consult this to his father who at that time was trying to secure the hand of German Princess Alexandra zu Schaumburg-Lippe for Alexander.

Milan resigned short after as with the Prime Minster and Alexander had difficulty in forming a new cabinet. Queen Nathalie opposed of this union and was banished from the court.

Even at a young, he was already very bold and serious, it is to note that at 16, he proclaimed himself of full age and dismissed the regents and their governments.

Draga was also very unpopular, aside from her past, she couldn't bear a child and the rumors of Alexander choosing Draga's brother as heir-presumptive instead of Prince Mirko of Montenegro was distasteful.

Yes, it would have turned out differently had Alexander married Alexandra and with the continued support from his mother and father.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

If Alexander had married Alexandra and they had had sons, then Serbian royal history would definitely be different.

 

[theroyalfly]

Totally different. House of Karađorđević should not have ruled. Princess Alexandra Caroline remained unmarried and died age 70.

 

[Ralf]

Milos Obrenović (1780-1860)

When and where exactly did Milos Obrenović (1780-1860) and Ljubica Vukomanović (1785-1843) marry?

 

[Ralf]

Milos Obrenović (1829-1861)

Regarding another Milos Obrenović (1829-1861), in what city exactly was he born and did he die?
And also, exactly when and where did he divorce from his wife Elena Maria Catargiu (1831-1876)?

 

[Ralf]

Milan I Obrenović (1854-1901)

King Milan I was married to Natalija Kescu (1859-1941) in Belgrad in 1875, but this marriage was dissolved in 1888. However, in 1893 he married Natalija again.
In what city did the divorce take place, and where the re-marriage?

 

[Ralf]

Jevrem Obrenović (1790-1856)

Jevrem Obrenović (1790-1856) was married to Tomanija Bogićević (1796-1881). Where and when exactly did that marriage take place, and where and when was Tomanija born and did she die?

 

[Ralf]

Teodor Mihailović

Teodor Mihailović was married to Visnja Gojković. Exactly when and where were they both born, did they die and did there marriage take place?

 

[sgs]

Does anyone have information about a close friend of Alexander Obrenovic who would have lived in Madrid? I am trying to find my mother-in-laws family. Her Mother was an actress named Yvonne Lamor who has this written about her in many theater publications: "At one of the chief London music halls a King's protege is to appear next week. This is Yvonne Lamor, w'ho is of Spanish-Irish extraction, and who will give a sort of musical mono'-?sue- Mile. Lamor'a kingly protector was, not Leoj>o!d, this time, but:the ill-fated Alexander of Servia, When the actress wan a girl the monarch came to see her frequently at her father's house in Madrid, "but never allowcd # her to suspect his true rank. Finally. vrith her father's consent, he ««nt. her to the Paris Conservatoire and then to Frankfort and Vienna. But aerer, until in company with her fath er, she paid a visit to Belgrade a few months Lefore his death, did Mile. Lamor know that her munificent friend was Servia's King. After he died, she appeared successfully in Vienna and other European capitals."

 

[ronald biver]

Just finished reading the biography of King Alexander & Queen Draga of Serbia, very moving & sad. The title of this biography is "A Royal Tragedy" (Being the story of the assassination of King Alexander & Queen Draga of Serbia} by Chedomille Mijtovich.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

The only notable descendants but through the female line are the Monténégrin royals.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

King Milan I of Serbia traveled to the front where he would take personal command of his army against the Bulgarians.
http://www.maryevans.com/history/10200078

 

[MarcBgd]

Only recently, it has been found out that in 1850, Prince Michael of Serbia (1823-1868) has first proposed to Princess Maria Josepha of Liechtenstein (1835-1905), youngest daughter of Prince Karl Joseph of Liechtenstein (1790-1865) and his wife, Countess Franziska von Wrbna-Freudenthal (1799-1863).

Her father declined, as Michael was an Orthodox and thought that she was too good catch for a member of the House of Obrenovic, an upstart deposed vassal dynasty. At that time, Serbia has been ruled by the rival Karadjordjevic dynasty. After being rejected and insulted, Michael, who was at that time living in Vienna broke all social contacts with this line of the Liechtenstein family. Due to this disappointment, he wrote a famous poem "Why do my thoughts torture me", which was previously thought that he wrote to his wife Julia.

Princess Maria Josepha of Liechtenstein later married Prince Ferdinand Bonaventura Kinsky von Wchinitz und Tettau (1834-1904) and is ancestor of many royals, including the ruling Prince Hans Adam II of Liechtenstein.

 

[Blog Real]

Milan Obrenović (22 August 1854 – 11 February 1901) reigned as the prince of Serbia from 1868 to 1882 and subsequently as king from 1882 to 1889.Milan I unexpectedly abdicated in favor of his son, Alexander I of Serbia, in 1889.
Milan married Natalie Keshko on 17 October 1875 at the St. Michael's Cathedral, Belgrade, Serbia.

Milan I of Serbia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Alexander I (14 August 1876 – 11 June 1903) reigned as the king of Serbia from 1889 to 1903 when he and his wife, Draga Mašin, were assassinated by a group of Royal Serbian Army officers, led by Captain Dragutin Dimitrijević.
In the summer of 1900, King Alexander suddenly announced his engagement to Draga Mašin, a disreputable widow of an obscure engineer.

Alexander I of Serbia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[maybebaby]

Hi
Recently for genealogy pourpose here in italy i find the birth certificate of one of my great grandfather. I found out that he was adopted and that his real father was alexandar obrenovic and the birth certificate was signed by the italuan king. Do you think is it possible that myngreat grandfather was the illegittimate son of king alexandar obrenovic? When i was young a lot of serbian friends joked about the fact that i look like him( i am his copy ) and that my father was the copy of jevrem obrenovic.