Succession to the Romanian Throne, Part 1

[eya]

But to accept you should make a proposal. The question is who? King Mihai (no way) or the president of romania (also imagine no way).

The Romanian government allowed the king Mihai to return, also returned to the royal palaces. Royalists Associations what power would make such a proposal?

 

[Cory]

The King won't make any such proposal because he accepted what his Family wanted in 2007.
The president has nothing to do with the Succession to the throne.
The Royalists' Associations should ask officially the Hohenzollerns to accept the Succession.

 

[Cory]

We are speaking about the Succession to the Throne not about the King's private properties here.
The government is not interested in such issues I presume.
The support of the Romanian royalists is essential for the Hohenzollerns.

 

[eya]

You said that the Royalists' Associations should ask officially the Hohenzollerns to accept the Succession.http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/reputation.php?p=1819170 Hypothetically speaking always (as we all do here) a do and what Hohenzollern accept then what? This is my question. There should be some support from the official romania.

 

[Cory]

What do you mean by "official Romania"?
It is obvious the Hohenzollerns needs supporters if they want to restore the Monarchy.

 

[Andy T]

I'm still reeling from the news about King Michael's decision to change the house rules. Without knowing the reasons for it and the positions of the main actors, I can't have an opinion on the fors and againsts of it. However, I am really sad that the progress made over the last few years towards the return of the monarchy in Romania has been undermined. It is my fear that the unseemly free-for-all among the various factions - be they partisans of King Michael, Nicholas, the Hohenzollerns or the Lambrinos - will ensure that the monarchy will never be restored.

 

[Cory]

There are only the supporters of the Hohenzollerns (those who really want the restoration of Monarchy) and some supporters ( who do not want to oppose any decision of Elisabeta Pakace) of the female descendants of the King. Many of those that supported strongly Mr Medforth Mills support now the Hohenzollerns. Unfortunately we do not have clear percentages regarding how many support the legitimist Line and how many support the female descendants of the King.

 

[Benjamin]

Cory, do you have any evidence that the many Romanian people who supported and still support Prince Nicholas have, in the space of a month, suddenly switched their allegiance to the Furst von Hohenzollern?

 

[Cory]

I spoke with many of them and this is the case. It is very difficult however to know really how many people support the House of Hohenzollern because there is no poll for the moment regarding this issue.

 

[eya]

Because you said that you spoke to many of them completely exclude the fact Nicolae return again perhaps when the Μargarira take the reins of the monarchy.

I really doubt the eldest daughter of the King and her husband are interested in the restoration of Monarchy.

I'm afraid that will have to agree on it. I believe that Margarita is happy with its position now. She returned to Romania, lives in Elizabeta palace, receives royal guests (such as recent the Prince Lorenz), organizes various events throughout the magnificence of a monarchy into force. I think that it is satisfied with them and not interested for the after. Besides has not her own children to the care that much. Of course the direct or indirect future will show us.

 

[vkrish]

it is out of question that nicolas will be restored after the king dies. Margarita has never been an active/initiative-taking royal and she will hardly be so later.
And as if she and her husband didnt know he is being kicked out, and just kept quiet out of deference for the old man, planning to set things straight when he s gone.
For gods sake, thats playing with a young mans life...

 

[vkrish]

I seriously feel nobody in the romanian RF is interested in restoration. None of the kings daughters seem to be groomed for active public life. The heiress owes most of her 'popularity' to general sympathy for her ill health and childlessness. Come on, 4 daughters is a bumper bonus in royalty, and all u got to depend on is a politically ambitious, polarising son in law.. Its a pity.. We praise QueenMother n Queen Ingrid for raising brilliant regnants, unfortunately it reflects very poorly on Queen Anne that none of the princesses are inspiring enough. Even Maria of Russia runs a better show than them.
And the King only worsened things by changing laws/traditions on his whim n fancy. Change is ok but they should have a vision and strategy for that.
Unfortunately this couple didnt bother for that, and now they are totally lost. I think now his brothers family cant care less about what happens to the crown.

PS This may sound harsh and judgemental. But these are just some practical observations

 

[Cory]

Because you said that you spoke to many of them completely exclude the fact Nicolae return again perhaps when the Μargarira take the reins of the monarchy.

Nobody really believes this possibility.

 

[Cory]

I really doubt the eldest daughter of the King and her husband are interested in the restoration of Monarchy.

 

[Benjamin]

I seriously feel nobody in the romanian RF is interested in restoration. None of the kings daughters seem to be groomed for active public life. The heiress owes most of her 'popularity' to general sympathy for her ill health and childlessness. Come on, 4 daughters is a bumper bonus in royalty, and all u got to depend on is a politically ambitious, polarising son in law.. Its a pity.. We praise QueenMother n Queen Ingrid for raising brilliant regnants, unfortunately it reflects very poorly on Queen Anne that none of the princesses are inspiring enough. Even Maria of Russia runs a better show than them.

Have there actually ever been any reliable reports that Margarita of Romania is ill? If anything, it is her mother The Queen who has been unwell for some years. The Crown Princess has certainly become extremely svelte, but that it not in itself an indication that she is in poor health.

Further, regarding the Princesses, Queen Anne openly admitted in a book, The Gotha: Still a Continental Royal Family, that "I do not know how good a job I did raising daughters. You see, I only had brothers. Mother [Princess Margrethe of Bourbon-Parma; nee Denmark] only had brothers, and she was left an orphan at an early age since Amama [Princess Marie of Denmark; nee Orleans] died so young. Michael was an only son. We did not really have any ideas about raising girls. We did the best we could."

 

[Benjamin]

Margarita has never been an active/initiative-taking royal and she will hardly be so later.

The princess did found a well-respected charity nearly thirty years ago that is still actively involved in ameliorating living conditions for many Romanians. So, one could hardly say Margarita is not active or initiative-taking.

 

[MAfan]

On another side, I believe it should be also considered that the Royal Family has reached a sort of agreement with the republican Romanian government; I'm not sure that it would be very wise for them to start actively campaigning for the restoration of the monarchy against the republican regime.
Maybe their chances would be better if they showed in practice to the Romanian people what the role of a Monarchy and of the Royal Family could be, if they showed to be serious persons, committed, interested in Romania, and leaving to others the campaigns to promote the restoration.

 

[CSENYC]

The Hohenzollerns never got the throne in the 1800s by passively just trying to be good people. Just as then, it takes actively promoting a change in government to get it. Thus while King Michael has perhaps made the most of a tough situation, if he wanted the monarchy restored, he should have actively campaigned for it.

 

[MAfan]

Things have changed a little since the 1800s, haven't they? I don't think that the Romanian government would be very happy if King Michael and family now started to openly call for the restoration of the Monarchy.

And besides that, AFAIK King Carol I in 1866 just said "yes" and quickly travelled to Romania after the Romanian Parliament forced Alexandru Ioan Cuza to abdicate and, following the raccomandation of Napoleon III, asked Carol to become Prince of Romania.
It doesn't seems to me that he (and the Hohenzollerns in general) have been very active to promote the change of government back in 1866.

 

[Cory]

They do not promote the restoration of Monarchy because they have very good relations with the republican authorities.

 

[Cory]

A dialogue between HM the King and HH Prince Karl of Hohenzollern would be very important at this point but I doubt it will take place.

 

[Cory]

Trying to avoid the Succession of the Hohenzollerns the King's Family supported the proposal of a new Line of Succession with the descendants of the King. In the last year 4 persons were expelled from this new proposed Line and only in one case there was a Statement about what was happening. So it is not a surprise more royalists start to take into consideration the Succession of the Hohenzollerns only now. Destiny is full of irony. ..

 

[eya]

Indeed what irony. Do you want to avoid the Hohenzollerns and end up endings to them. Who to wronged royalists who watched closer than ever with Nikolae the possibility of restoring the monarchy and suddenly all these be thrown as air.
I'm starting to think that maybe the succession of their Hohenzollerns is indeed the best solution now.

But it is evident that Romania more than any other country is close to the monarchy. But the problem of succession remains unresolved.

Yes, but the fact is that the Prince Alexander von Hohenzollern is not a descendant of King Mihai. Something that King too wish for it and for this reason created his own line of succession.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It is not an option, according the last royal Constitution and before King Michael started to change it all on discutable grounds, the Hohenzollerns simply are the successors. Period. But: we are all talking about a restoration of the monarchy. That will not happen. Not with Medforth-Mills, not with Biarneix but also not with Hohenzollern.

 

[Cory]

Obviously you do not know the Romanian realities.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Obviously you do not know the Romanian realities.

Trust me. In the European Union, anno 2015, almost 2016, a new monarchy? That will not happen. For sure not while King Michael is at the end of his life, his eldest daughter Margareta has no offspring, his second daughter Elena showns no interest, his eldest grandson Nicholas is barred, his eldest granddaughter Karina shows no interest, his third daughter Irina and her children are all barred, his fourth daughter Sofia shows no interest, nor does his youngest granddaughter Elisabeth and his youngest daughter Maria has no offspring. Well, well... what a prospect!

 

[LadyRohan]

It never ceases to surprise me, when monarchists claim the impossibility of restoring monarchies. The Romanian one is not an impossibility at all, but I will say that I see no way at all for the line to pass to any foreign member of the Hohenzollern princely family. They have no connection to Romanian society, the head of the princely family and his heir have made it clear that their family is not interested in the Romanian throne, and that Romania has a RF. Who and how succession will work in that family, can be sorted, and will fall into place, if the institution of monarchy continues to undergo its current renaissance.

If you want to invoke the EU in any way when it comes to the change from republic to monarchy in any member state, I think the most relevant intervention they would make, would be to make it clear that in this day and age, salic law has no place. And H.M the King of the Romanians has a more than large enough family to build succession around, when that day comes.

And I'm fairly sure it will. If you watch Romanian society closely, the winds are blowing in that direction.

 

[MAfan]

I suppose that the problem of the succession will have to be settled after the Monarchy is restored (if it will ever be).
I mean, I don't think that - in case of a restoration - it will be just fine to reinstate the old 1923 Constitution and the rules it provided. Most likely everything will have to be rediscussed.

 

[LadyRohan]

I suppose that the problem of the succession will have to be settled after the Monarchy is restored (if it will ever be).
I mean, I don't think that - in case of a restoration - it will be just fine to reinstate the old 1923 Constitution and the rules it provided. Most likely everything will have to be rediscussed.

Hear, hear. I think the comparison can be drawn to most European contemporary monarchies: if for example, something were to happen to the entire RF of a country such as Sweden or Norway, I don't think for a moment one could just import the closest geneological relative from Germany, Denmark or France and continue the monarchy. The very instituion is emotional, and the population needs a bond with their RF, for it to work. That is the job former ruling houses must do, build up that emotional bond again, to eventually be wanted back as reigning dynasties.

 

[MAfan]

I do agree with you on this point. That's why I'm so skeptical about the Hohenzollern ssuccession. It may be the legitimate one according to the 1923 Constitution, but this isn't enough at all to justify their possible accession to the Romanian throne.
I think it is more likely the scenario of Nicholas Medforth Mills called back by the Romanian parliament (or by whoever will be in charge to decide) to be King of Romania, in spite of his recent exclusion from the succession, rather than the Hohenzollerns called to be Kings of Romania just because the old Constitution said so.