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  #141  
Old 08-12-2015, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post

[...]

Oh yes, we all know: This turns your world into a perfect one...
"Dynastic marriages"!!!
Well, in comparison those "oldfashioned" Hohenzollerns respecting their patrimonium, respecting their House Laws, maintaining their family assets, seem to do very, very well and live a very good life on their 1000 years old Burg.

The Romanians went the 'modern way' and married a dubious character (Radu), a fraud (Sofia), a criminal (Irina) and a Polish dude in informatica who became in financial problems and resulted in a long embattled divorce (Maria). Also very modern in Orthodox Romania: of the five daughters of the King, completely free to marry without restriction and chose the partner they want: four marriages ended in divorce.

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  #142  
Old 08-12-2015, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The Romanians went the 'modern way' and married a dubious character (Radu), a fraud (Sofia), a criminal (Irina) and a Polish immigrant (Maria). Also very modern in Orthodox Romania: of the five daughters of the King, completely free to marry without restriction and chose the partner they want: four marriages ended in divorce.

Yep, they scored higher than P.Beatrix of the Netherlands and her sisters, of those 4 only 2 divorced (while we're comparing royal families ), one of those divorces was with a full blood Prince, so equal marriage doesn't prevent it...

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  #143  
Old 08-12-2015, 05:01 PM
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I thought they were divorced in 2002? I think I read somewhere on these forums that she got reinstated after that?
Yes, now I see in some source that Alain divorced indeed. Their child seem creatively called Elisabeth-Maria Biarneix de Laufenborg according the one and Elisabeth-Maria de Laufenborg Biarneix according the other.

The royal website however keeps it simple:

1. ASR Principesa Mostenitoare Margareta a Romaniei, Custode al Coroanei Romaniei;

2. ASR Principesa Elena a Romaniei;

3. Elisabeta Karina de Roumanie;

4. ASR Principesa Sofia a Romaniei;

5. Elisabeta Maria Biarneix;

6. ASR Principesa Maria a Romaniei.
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  #144  
Old 08-12-2015, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
Yep, they scored higher than P.Beatrix of the Netherlands and her sisters, of those 4 only 2 divorced (while we're comparing royal families ), one of those divorces was with a full blood Prince, so equal marriage doesn't prevent it...

In my humble personal opinion it is kind strange that you are interested in royalty and aristocracy, and I may assume because of that, also in traditions, history and genealogy.

When a royal family simply wishes to live according the traditions of their House then they are suddenly ridiculed? When Crown Princess Victoria had married a Lensgreve Wedell-Wedellsborg or something, was she then also become a laughing stock for you, simply for living to certain standards?

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  #145  
Old 08-12-2015, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Yes, now I see in some source that Alain divorced indeed. Their child seem creatively called Elisabeth-Maria Biarneix de Laufenborg according the one and Elisabeth-Maria de Laufenborg Biarneix according the other.

The royal website however keeps it simple:

1. ASR Principesa Mostenitoare Margareta a Romaniei, Custode al Coroanei Romaniei;

2. ASR Principesa Elena a Romaniei;

3. Elisabeta Karina de Roumanie;

4. ASR Principesa Sofia a Romaniei;

5. Elisabeta Maria Biarneix;

6. ASR Principesa Maria a Romaniei.
Ok, I hope for the romanian monarchists that this will remain the line of succession for a while so they can regain their confidence in the family, would be a shame if it is all lost with this action...
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  #146  
Old 08-12-2015, 05:25 PM
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On the European Royals Message Board a certain poster named raalcom, whom seems quite well-informed, more or less pointed to Queen Anne of Romania as the one whom initiated the change in the succession. I quote from his post:

The new succession line is, I'm afraid, a sad joke, the shadow of a shadow that lost all traces of credibility. How many times can succession pass on female line ? Margarita "Custodian of the Crown" (always a strange and never convincing formula), Elena ("2nd Custodian" ?) and Karina ("3rd Custodian" ?) ?

In 1997, Romanian monarchists asked King Michael to designate an Heir from the German Catholic line of the Hohenzollerns. He initially agreed, but then, under pressure from Queen Anna, he changed his mind, accepting the idea of Nicolae as successor and heir. Romanian monarchists (some of them knowing the Family in close quarters) split, back then, in two parties: those who were against this unconstitutional decision, and those who accepted it together with the idea that the "monarchy" should adopt modern norms. We know what happened.

Normally, the legal and legitimate Heir is one of the German Catholic Hohenzollerns, namely Fuerst Karl-Friedrich. However, he publicly stated in 2009 he is not interested in claiming such a right (and he repeats it in private even now). We are therefore left with his son, Alexander (b. 1987), more attracted to politics than his father is [...]
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  #147  
Old 08-12-2015, 05:33 PM
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The succession is for the head of the family correct? If there is a restoration Romania will choose its own formal line of succession to the throne.
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  #148  
Old 08-12-2015, 05:38 PM
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The succession is for the head of the family correct? If there is a restoration Romania will choose its own formal line of succession to the throne.
Eh... the purists say: no, not the head of the family but the Constitution and the Fundamental Laws of the House.

It is difficult to see the whole circus going upside down again and the Hohenzollerns coming back into picture. That would really make the whole succession into a vaudeville. Or maybe it already is...

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  #149  
Old 08-12-2015, 05:49 PM
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The succession is for the head of the family correct? If there is a restoration Romania will choose its own formal line of succession to the throne.
I can't imagine there will ever be a restoration.
It seems unlikely in these times.
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  #150  
Old 08-12-2015, 06:05 PM
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King Michael's nephew Paul Philip must be rubbing his hands together!
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  #151  
Old 08-12-2015, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
On the European Royals Message Board a certain poster named raalcom, whom seems quite well-informed, more or less pointed to Queen Anne of Romania as the one whom initiated the change in the succession. I quote from his post:

The new succession line is, I'm afraid, a sad joke, the shadow of a shadow that lost all traces of credibility. How many times can succession pass on female line ? Margarita "Custodian of the Crown" (always a strange and never convincing formula), Elena ("2nd Custodian" ?) and Karina ("3rd Custodian" ?) ?

In 1997, Romanian monarchists asked King Michael to designate an Heir from the German Catholic line of the Hohenzollerns. He initially agreed, but then, under pressure from Queen Anna, he changed his mind, accepting the idea of Nicolae as successor and heir. Romanian monarchists (some of them knowing the Family in close quarters) split, back then, in two parties: those who were against this unconstitutional decision, and those who accepted it together with the idea that the "monarchy" should adopt modern norms. We know what happened.

Normally, the legal and legitimate Heir is one of the German Catholic Hohenzollerns, namely Fuerst Karl-Friedrich. However, he publicly stated in 2009 he is not interested in claiming such a right (and he repeats it in private even now). We are therefore left with his son, Alexander (b. 1987), more attracted to politics than his father is [...]
All female succession line is ridiculous. Given the situation, the custodians of the Crown should just take advantage of perquisites they have got from the Romanian government.
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  #152  
Old 08-12-2015, 07:17 PM
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And this is the only solution?
No if Romania was to return the monarchy they could pass laws and pick whoever they want. They could pick an actual Romanian prince like a Caradja, Ghika, Cantacuzino, Sturdza or Bibescu, etc. Or they could pick Nicholas. They can pick whoever they want.

But it is unlikely without a movement and legitimacy behind it.
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  #153  
Old 08-12-2015, 07:19 PM
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All female succession line is ridiculous. Given the situation, the custodians of the Crown should just take advantage of perquisites they have got from the Romanian government.

Why is an all female line ridiculous? Are women somehow less capable of being a monarch - not even, given as Romania is a republic - than men?

The UK and Denmark seem to be doing fine with female monarchs. The Netherlands had 3 straight Queen Regents and has a female heir right now. The heir and her heir in Sweden are both female. Belgium has a female heir, as does Spain and Norway.
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  #154  
Old 08-12-2015, 07:35 PM
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The only two young ladies in that Line of Succession are not living in Romanian and do not speak the language.
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  #155  
Old 08-12-2015, 08:00 PM
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Why is an all female line ridiculous? Are women somehow less capable of being a monarch - not even, given as Romania is a republic - than men?
The UK and Denmark seem to be doing fine with female monarchs. The Netherlands had 3 straight Queen Regents and has a female heir right now. The heir and her heir in Sweden are both female. Belgium has a female heir, as does Spain and Norway.
The European bloodline are majorly downgraded. There is not much to be discussed.
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  #156  
Old 08-12-2015, 08:02 PM
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The European bloodline are majorly downgraded. There is not much to be discussed.

I'm not sure your point here. What does an all female succession have to do with that?
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  #157  
Old 08-12-2015, 08:23 PM
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The Romanians have never had a woman as Head of State. I know now is so usual to have that but...
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  #158  
Old 08-12-2015, 09:12 PM
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I'm not sure your point here. What does an all female succession have to do with that?
It is just my personal opinion. It would be unwise to present arguments against the all female succession line. I am not fond of endless arguments and explanations that will result in nothing.

I am not sure how successful future Queens of Norway, Belgium, and Spain will be. PR campaigns aside, it is impossible for me to measure Queen Elizabeth's and Queen Margrethe's success.
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  #159  
Old 08-13-2015, 02:30 AM
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I don't think so anything happen soon about the succession. Very interested what King Mihai think and doing next.
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  #160  
Old 08-13-2015, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
It is just my personal opinion. It would be unwise to present arguments against the all female succession line. I am not fond of endless arguments and explanations that will result in nothing.

I am not sure how successful future Queens of Norway, Belgium, and Spain will be. PR campaigns aside, it is impossible for me to measure Queen Elizabeth's and Queen Margrethe's success.
How do you define a monarch being succesful or not succesful? All monarchs in Western Europe and in Japan lack any executive powers and are nothing more than ceremonial heads of state. No one of these monarchs, whether it is Don Felipe (a man) or Queen Elizabeth II (a woman) can do anything without the backing of the Government. All these monarchs are tied to the Constitution and subject to the rule of law. In theory these monarchs could refuse their signature under a Law, in practice even that veto does not exist.

So what is "succesful"? When the Scots would have voted Yes! in the referendum, than they would have left the Union. The Scots have voted No! in the referendum and they stay in the Union. What the monarch in question, Queen Elizabeth II, thinks or wants, is of no importance in this matter. And rightly so. It is not possible, anno 2015, that a person who is head of state by hereditary right blocks a decision which was made by the democratically elected Parliament or even directly by the people (referendum).
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