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  #481  
Old 06-29-2016, 11:48 AM
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The Hohenzollerns from the Princely House visited Romania different times after the fall of communism and Prince Georg for example loved northern Bucovina.
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  #482  
Old 06-29-2016, 12:40 PM
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The monarchy itself is clear on this issue. The suggested line of succession is a suggestion, not enshrined in law. It is the suggestion of the sovereign, for parliament to consider, in the event of a restoration.
Parliament will decide who the crown will be offered to, and the question will be put to the people in a referendum (most likely).
That is it.
The King has made it clear he stands firm on the principles of human rights of equality and societal progress, and that his eldest daughter is his designated heir.
That is his right to do, and that is what he has done.
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  #483  
Old 06-29-2016, 05:11 PM
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The Succession is automatic so after King Michael the titular Kong will be Prince Karl as Carol III and if he gives up formally the next in Line from the Hobenzollern branch.
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  #484  
Old 06-29-2016, 07:53 PM
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Succession to the Romanian Throne

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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
The Succession is automatic so after King Michael the titular Kong will be Prince Karl as Carol III and if he gives up formally the next in Line from the Hobenzollern branch.

Actually, per the last Constitution of the Kingdom, the Fürst of Hohenzollern (and any male member of his family) would have to convert to Romanian Orthodoxy before legally being able to become Head of House.

This is indisputable.

Full stop.
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  #485  
Old 06-29-2016, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin View Post
Actually, per the last Constitution of the Kingdom, the Fürst of Hohenzollern (and any male member of his family) would have to convert to Romanian Orthodoxy before legally being able to become Head of House.

This is indisputable.

Full stop.
Article 78 of the Constitution of 1923 does not require it. When Prince Ferdinand was called to be Crown Prince because his uncle did not have male heirs nobody had asked Prince Ferdinand to abandon his faith.
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  #486  
Old 06-30-2016, 02:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
Article 78 of the Constitution of 1923 does not require it. When Prince Ferdinand was called to be Crown Prince because his uncle did not have male heirs nobody had asked Prince Ferdinand to abandon his faith.
You're right, article 78 doesn't, because nobody is referring to article 78.
The relevant article is article 77, which states that 'coboritorii Maiestatii Sale vor fi crescuti in religiunea ortodoxa a Rasaritului', which roughly translates to 'the Sovereign and his heirs will be raised in the Eastern Orthodox religion'.

Now, if you want to read this article as literal as some read the Bible, you cannot be so unprincipled as to remove or adjust articles you feel like changing, and say that anyone else who suggest the same to other articles they deem out of touch or irrelevant today, (such as the King asking Parliament to abolish the salic law provision in article 77) is committing heresy and falsifying the alleged guiding light and beacon of monarchy in Romania, the beloved constitution of 1923.

Either ALL paragraphs remain unchanged and you stand by your principles, or ANY paragraph can be changed, not just the one you want to, based on your own views, which we know from reading this forum, can and does change at irregular intervals.
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  #487  
Old 06-30-2016, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin View Post
Actually, per the last Constitution of the Kingdom, the Fürst of Hohenzollern (and any male member of his family) would have to convert to Romanian Orthodoxy before legally being able to become Head of House.

This is indisputable.

Full stop.
The article refers to the Sovereign and the Heir. Here we are talking about the Head of the House, as there is no kingdom and no throne. I think the Orthodox requirement oncly comes Im Frage when the Head of the House becomes Sovereign indeed under the workings of the former Constitution.
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  #488  
Old 06-30-2016, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The article refers to the Sovereign and the Heir. Here we are talking about the Head of the House, as there is no kingdom and no throne. I think the Orthodox requirement oncly comes Im Frage when the Head of the House becomes Sovereign indeed under the workings of the former Constitution.
And this thread is about the succession to the Romanian throne, not succession to a noble house in a never-to-be-restored monarchy. The Royal Family of Romania will obviously not abdicate their rights to their place in the Royal House, and as is clear from recent debates and discussions in Romania with regards to legal acts, the Royal Family is regarded as the legal and rightful custodians of the monarchy and the family itself.
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  #489  
Old 06-30-2016, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The article refers to the Sovereign and the Heir. Here we are talking about the Head of the House, as there is no kingdom and no throne. I think the Orthodox requirement oncly comes Im Frage when the Head of the House becomes Sovereign indeed under the workings of the former Constitution.
All the laws of Romania today underline the equality of all denominations. There is no national Churches as in the past. No person could be forced or asked to convert. To ask somebody to convert would be against all the laws of the UE too.
The article 78 of the Constitution of 1923 refers to the dynastic rights and this article apply for the Succession now.
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  #490  
Old 06-30-2016, 07:00 AM
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But shouldn't the Royal Family still be subject only to the rules and laws in force before 1947, as you stated very clearly here?
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The very concept of Monarchy is to obey rules and the only rules for the Royal House of Romania are those existent in 1947.
At the time article 77 of the 1923 Constitution was still in force, so it should still be respected by the Royal House, shouldn't it?
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  #491  
Old 06-30-2016, 07:15 AM
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Nicholas Medforth-Mills was created Nicholas de Roumanie Medforth-Mills.
Was this a cosmetic name change or a real one? Meaning that the municipal register in Romania (?), Switzerland (?) or the United Kingdom (?) has changed the surname? On base of which legislation and which authority was this name change done? Or was it purely fictional and was the official surname always and ever Nicholas Medforth-Mills, no nore, no less?

"Nicholas de Roumanie Medforth-Mills" was created HRH Prince Nicholas of Romania.
Is there a Decree, referring to statutes or other legislation, with the grounds on which the legitimacy of this decison rests? I assume this title has not been registered in any official register?

HRH Prince Nicholas of Romania has been stripped of his title.
Is there a Decree, referring to statutes or other legislation, with the grounds on which the legitimacy of this decison rests?
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  #492  
Old 06-30-2016, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
But shouldn't the Royal Family still be subject only to the rules and laws in force before 1947, as you stated very clearly here?

At the time article 77 of the 1923 Constitution was still in force, so it should still be respected by the Royal House, shouldn't it?
The religion of the King was stated also in the Constitution of 1866 but the King remain Catholic. The Constitution of 1923 did the same and the King was still Catholic.
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  #493  
Old 06-30-2016, 07:47 AM
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Not much in line with the "very concept of Monarchy"...
So, summarizing, since the two first Kings of Romania didn't respect a certain provision of the Constitution, that provision can be forgotten and now it's fine to ignore it?
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  #494  
Old 06-30-2016, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
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Not much in line with the "very concept of Monarchy"...
So, summarizing, since the two first Kings of Romania didn't respect a certain provision of the Constitution, that provision can be forgotten and now it's fine to ignore it?
They respected the Constitution even when it brought to crisis of conscience. The two Constitutions were speaking about the denominational affiliation of the members of the Family that needed to be raised according to Orthodoxy. Neither of the two Constitutions spoke about the conversion to Orthodoxy of adults. That's why the two first Kings remain Catholics but their children were raised as Orthodox.
Nobody could ask today the Princes of Hohenzollern to abandon their Catholic faith and the laws of nowadays Romania would not make possible to even ask them to raise their children as Orthodox if they do not want to.
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  #495  
Old 06-30-2016, 10:06 AM
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While under a very personal point of view I do agree with the last point you expressed, under another point of view I find it very much in contradiction with the pretension that the Royal Family should nowadays still be ruled by the laws in force before 1947, totally ignoring the changes - political, institutional and constitutional, cultural - that have happened in Romania in the past seven decades, as well as in contradiction with the claim that rules and tradictions are unchangeable and untouchable.
On the contrary, I think it is the demonstration (as if we needed it) that also rules and traditions change and evolve with the passing of the time.
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  #496  
Old 06-30-2016, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
While under a very personal point of view I do agree with the last point you expressed, under another point of view I find it very much in contradiction with the pretension that the Royal Family should nowadays still be ruled by the laws in force before 1947, totally ignoring the changes - political, institutional and constitutional, cultural - that have happened in Romania in the past seven decades, as well as in contradiction with the claim that rules and tradictions are unchangeable and untouchable.
On the contrary, I think it is the demonstration (as if we needed it) that also rules and traditions change and evolve with the passing of the time.
Certainly the Constitution of 1923 was not perfect and the Parliament will have to make different changes to it when the Monarchy is restored. Until that moment the Succession remains the one according to the legislation of the Kingdom of Romania.
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  #497  
Old 06-30-2016, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
Certainly the Constitution of 1923 was not perfect and the Parliament will have to make different changes to it when the Monarchy is restored. Until that moment the Succession remains the one according to the legislation of the Kingdom of Romania.
Under no circumstances can you trounce the King for stating that as times and circumstances are completely different today than in 1923, he can ignore one article of the constitution, but has to obey another.
It is not the job of so-called supporters to demand which articles of an abolished constitution a monarch still has to obey, and the King has made it clear that just as you claim that they can overlook the second half of article 77, concerning religion, he makes clear that the first half, regarding a ban on female succession, is no longer an acceptable way to run a monarchy in Europe.

In the end, the politicians of any democracy decide on constitutional change, not the King and certainly not zealots who are unable to remain principled when it comes to constitutional matters.
How you manage to justify being so very unprincipled is beyond me.
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  #498  
Old 08-22-2016, 06:13 PM
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Now the royalists are more divided than ever on the question of Succession. There are at least three ideas about it: the Hohenzollern Line, the michaelist proposed line with Mr Medforth Mills or another Foreign Prince.
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  #499  
Old 08-22-2016, 06:33 PM
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Would you have a reliable source this time?
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  #500  
Old 08-22-2016, 06:41 PM
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Obviously the succession must rest on the descendants of King Mihai.
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