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  #441  
Old 03-05-2016, 08:00 AM
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Finally an article that really undetstands the compmexity of the Romanian Succession. Congratulations to the italian royalists!
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  #442  
Old 03-05-2016, 08:46 AM
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Thank you Duc et Pair for the translation. Very WELL done.
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  #443  
Old 03-05-2016, 04:14 PM
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It seems a bit classless to be having this discussion about the succession (which has been going on back and forth ad nauseum with the same participants and the same facts) when the King is in his current condition.

Surely people can wait until His Majesty is no longer with us for this to become a topic.
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  #444  
Old 03-05-2016, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin View Post
It seems a bit classless to be having this discussion about the succession (which has been going on back and forth ad nauseum with the same participants and the same facts) when the King is in his current condition.

Surely people can wait until His Majesty is no longer with us for this to become a topic.
The adagium gouverner c'est prvoir (to govern is to anticipate) is applying here and the Italian monarchists -naturally- are interested in the complicated situation, as they have the same unclarity "at home".
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  #445  
Old 03-05-2016, 05:16 PM
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Even though this is a non-reigning monarchy the "succession" should be set before the old monarch dies. It wasn't all that long ago that there were civil wars if there was not a definite successor in place. I think that type of thinking is still valid for any monarchy. Not every country is as lucky as Great Britain.
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  #446  
Old 03-05-2016, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin View Post
It seems a bit classless to be having this discussion about the succession (which has been going on back and forth ad nauseum with the same participants and the same facts) when the King is in his current condition.

Surely people can wait until His Majesty is no longer with us for this to become a topic.
The Question of the Succession is important to be clear in order to know who will be the future Peetender.
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  #447  
Old 03-12-2016, 02:54 PM
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The Romanian site Flux 24 spoke about the late Prince Johann Georg of Hohenzollern as the seventh in the Line of Succession to the Romanian Throne:

A murit urmașul Regelui Mihai conform Constituției din 1923
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  #448  
Old 03-15-2016, 12:40 PM
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"Ideea de monarhie este esenţială. Cine să fie monarhul rămne o chestiune deschisă discuţiilor"( " The idea of Monarchy is essential. Who the Monarch should be remains a question opened to discussions") says one of the founders of the new Movement for Kingdom and Crown, Ioan Furtuna.



Fondator al Mişcării pentru Regat şi Coroană: „Succesiunea trebuia să se producă mai devreme. E inutil să mimăm surpriza“ | adevarul.ro
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  #449  
Old 03-15-2016, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
"Ideea de monarhie este esenţială. Cine să fie monarhul rămne o chestiune deschisă discuţiilor"( " The idea of Monarchy is essential. Who the Monarch should be remains a question opened to discussions") says one of the founders of the new Movement for Kingdom and Crown, Ioan Furtuna.



Fondator al Mişcării pentru Regat şi Coroană: „Succesiunea trebuia să se producă mai devreme. E inutil să mimăm surpriza“ | adevarul.ro
The comment above indicates that this association too does not advocate the automatic reinstatement of the 1923 succession. In any case, successions aren't decided (under any constitution or historical precedent) by a (small) bunch of members of any "association."
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  #450  
Old 03-15-2016, 01:22 PM
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The comment recognizes the complexity of the Romanian Succession issue and is not at all against what we read in the 78th and 79th articles of the Constitution of 1923. It is obvious that MRC is more opened to discuss the issue than ANRM.
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  #451  
Old 03-15-2016, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
The comment recognizes the complexity of the Romanian Succession issue and is not at all against what we read in the 78th and 79th articles of the Constitution of 1923. It is obvious that MRC is more opened to discuss the issue than ANRM.
The comment is not against, but neither is the comment for what we read in the 78th & 79th articles of the 1923 consitution. It states that the succession is an open question.
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  #452  
Old 03-15-2016, 01:48 PM
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According to the Constitution of 1923 the Succession becomes an opened question if the descendants of Carol I of Romania's brothers formally renounce their dynastic rights.
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  #453  
Old 03-15-2016, 01:52 PM
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This association's explicit, unambiguous declaration that the succesison is an open question NOW is, therefore, in direct contravention of the 1923 constitution.
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  #454  
Old 03-15-2016, 07:58 PM
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It is not identical anyway with the position of the ANRM.
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  #455  
Old 03-15-2016, 08:13 PM
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True, and neither is it identical with the "1923" point of view.
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  #456  
Old 03-15-2016, 09:17 PM
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The comments acknowledged there are different possibilities for the Succession and that is exactly what the Consitution of 1923 said:the Hohenzollerns or another European Family if the Hohenzollerns refuse the Throne.
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  #457  
Old 03-16-2016, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
The comments acknowledged there are different possibilities for the Succession and that is exactly what the Consitution of 1923 said:the Hohenzollerns or another European Family if the Hohenzollerns refuse the Throne.
This is how you want to read it, no doubt, but it is not what is said. If the 1923 succession rules are applied, the succession quesiton is closed (i.e. determined) until such time as there are no eligible/willing Hohenzollerns left.

The statement says the question of the succession is "open", now, not if/when the Hohenzollerns decline the throne. This is as clear a statement as you can have that the association does not advocate the automatic application of the 1923 rules, while at the same time not ruling them (or any other proposed set of rules) out.
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  #458  
Old 03-16-2016, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy T View Post
This is how you want to read it, no doubt, but it is not what is said. If the 1923 succession rules are applied, the succession quesiton is closed (i.e. determined) until such time as there are no eligible/willing Hohenzollerns left.

The statement says the question of the succession is "open", now, not if/when the Hohenzollerns decline the throne. This is as clear a statement as you can have that the association does not advocate the automatic application of the 1923 rules, while at the same time not ruling them (or any other proposed set of rules) out.
This in turn, is exactly what most of us, myself included, advocate. The question of succession is open, and the Royal Family might not be returned to the throne. Those in favour of the monarchy as an institution superior to that of a republic, would support a Kingdom of Romania in 2020 whether it be under the current Royal Family, or a branch of the old dynasty.

The question that has been raised, is how likely it is that the Royal Family in its entirety will be bypassed because the old constitution said so. I will always claim the following:
- If the Royal Family of Romania is not restored to the throne, it will not be because the children of the King are all women, and because the eldest one has no children. It will be because the Royal Family either disgraces and disqualifies itself, or because they are unwilling to return.
The first one can be argued through the expulsion of Nicholas M-M, although this is mostly seen as a resolvable issue. The second is moot, as the Crown Princess has declared herself willing to ascend the throne if asked.
- If the politicians of Romania choose to bypass the Royal Family against their will, it will be the death knell to the monarchical process, as most people will not understand it. If however, it is done with the consent of the Royal Family, and explained to the people well, it is doable.
It is however very unlikely, as most will find that the time for starting a monarchy completely from scratch, or going into older lines of the current dynasty to find an heir, belongs to a time gone by.

Should that however be the case, I will still happily cheer in the streets of Romania during the restoration. It is however, a less likely route than a monarchical restoration under the current Royal Family, who is in the country, representing the King and the family, and the hope of most everyone who supports the cause.

A monarchical restoration is an uphill climb, and a tricky thing to achieve. That is why it has so rarely been done in recent decades. In order to make it possible at all, it needs cleverness, logic and a healthy dose of realism, from everyone involved, and everyone sympathetic to the ultimate goal of restoring the monarchy in Romania.
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  #459  
Old 03-16-2016, 08:09 PM
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The question of the Succession is opened and depends of the attitude of the royalists and of the Romanians in general but also of the Hohenzollerns themselves.
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  #460  
Old 03-17-2016, 06:08 AM
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Personally I think that the attitude of the Hohenzollerns (or at least of those who would be most directly involved) is rather clear: Romania isn't in their plan for the present and the future.
But this attitude doesn't really matter taking in consideration the 1923 Constitution, does it?
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