The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #321  
Old 02-24-2016, 09:09 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kingdom, Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 4,061
Bypassed but than gave up on favour of his son who was next in line. In the Romania case Prince Karl could be bypassed too in favour of other Prince of Hohenzollern if the House of Hohenzollern and the Parliament agrees.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #322  
Old 02-24-2016, 09:13 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
Bypassed but than gave up on favour of his son who was next in line. In the Romania case Prince Karl could be bypassed too in favour of other Prince of Hohenzollern if the House of Hohenzollern and the Parliament agrees.
He could be: new constitution, new rules! Then again, maybe the Hohenzollerns wouldn't be considered by Parliament at all.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #323  
Old 02-24-2016, 09:17 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Christmas Island
Posts: 5,924
Two things are mixed here: a restoration and the line of succession.

In case of a restoration of the monarchy, a most unlikely event, the Romanians will decide and then also the rules of the game (like the succession) will be set. That is one. I agree with all posters who say that nothing is automatic. Not for Miss Medforth Mills, not for Miss Biarneix but also not for the Fürst von Hohenzollern or his son Prince Alexander.

Then comes two: the line of succession. This is the big division here. A group on this forum thinks that the succession can be unilaterally changed, totally to King Michael's daily whims. He can decide to add Princess Irina, Michael Torsten, Kohen Torsten, Angelica Knight, Courtney Knight and Diana Knight. With one scratch from his pen he can remove them again. Scccrrrrrrrrrraaaatchhhhh, there they went, out of the window, all of them...! With the same pen he can simply remove Nicholas Medforth-Mills. Just for his daily whims. Bam! He has been added to the line of succession. Bam! He gets a title and the prefix HRH. Bam! He is removed again. Bam! He has lost his title and prefix. Byeeee.

And then there is another group on this forum which has a more legalistic view. Until 8 years ago simply the Constitution of 1923 was followed. For more than 60 years the very same King Michael followed the Constitution. With the usual stance: when a monarchy has become defunct, the situation is frozen, as there is no legal Government and no legal Parliament to change it. This second group on this forum questions King Michael's right to "regulate" the succession depending to the mood of the day.

This second group sees the monarchal system always part of, and embedded in, a legal system with checks and balances. The first group accepts a dictatorship: The Great Michael Has Spoken, And So Will Be Done.

That is all. In my personal opinion King Michael had no right to decide unilaterally. Had he done it in close consultation with the Fürst von Hohenzollern and Prince Alexander, solemnly signed and added with the Grand Seal of both, okay... then we can say that all parties involved in the succession to the defunct throne have agreed on a new settlement. But here it is all one-sided. That is the real problem.
Reply With Quote
  #324  
Old 02-24-2016, 12:09 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kingdom, Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 4,061
Even a Royal Family does not reign anymore the rules of Succession remain and the Succession is automatic. Those that are against the Succession of the Hohenzollerns deny all the Romanian royal tradition, all the Romanian royal Constitution.
Reply With Quote
  #325  
Old 02-24-2016, 12:36 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kingdom, Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 4,061
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Two things are mixed here: a restoration and the line of succession.

In case of a restoration of the monarchy, a most unlikely event, the Romanians will decide and then also the rules of the game (like the succession) will be set. That is one. I agree with all posters who say that nothing is automatic. Not for Miss Medforth Mills, not for Miss Biarneix but also not for the Fürst von Hohenzollern or his son Prince Alexander.

Then comes two: the line of succession. This is the big division here. A group on this forum thinks that the succession can be unilaterally changed, totally to King Michael's daily whims. He can decide to add Princess Irina, Michael Torsten, Kohen Torsten, Angelica Knight, Courtney Knight and Diana Knight. With one scratch from his pen he can remove them again. Scccrrrrrrrrrraaaatchhhhh, there they went, out of the window, all of them...! With the same pen he can simply remove Nicholas Medforth-Mills. Just for his daily whims. Bam! He has been added to the line of succession. Bam! He gets a title and the prefix HRH. Bam! He is removed again. Bam! He has lost his title and prefix. Byeeee.

And then there is another group on this forum which has a more legalistic view. Until 8 years ago simply the Constitution of 1923 was followed. For more than 60 years the very same King Michael followed the Constitution. With the usual stance: when a monarchy has become defunct, the situation is frozen, as there is no legal Government and no legal Parliament to change it. This second group on this forum questions King Michael's right to "regulate" the succession depending to the mood of the day.

This second group sees the monarchal system always part of, and embedded in, a legal system with checks and balances. The first group accepts a dictatorship: The Great Michael Has Spoken, And So Will Be Done.

That is all. In my personal opinion King Michael had no right to decide unilaterally. Had he done it in close consultation with the Fürst von Hohenzollern and Prince Alexander, solemnly signed and added with the Grand Seal of both, okay... then we can say that all parties involved in the succession to the defunct throne have agreed on a new settlement. But here it is all one-sided. That is the real problem.
The Hohenzollerns had no dialogue with the King regarding the Succession in 2007.
Reply With Quote
  #326  
Old 02-24-2016, 12:46 PM
LadyRohan's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Sweden, Slovenia
Posts: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
Even a Royal Family does not reign anymore the rules of Succession remain and the Succession is automatic. Those that are against the Succession of the Hohenzollerns deny all the Romanian royal tradition, all the Romanian royal Constitution.
There is no succession to a throne that does not exist. There is therefore no automatic succession to an abolished throne. If Romania had been a monarchy continually and not had this period as a republic, the constitution would had been amended to allow female succession when it was clear the King would only have daughters. Ask anyone in Romanian politics or civil life that question, and they will all confirm it.
If the monarchy is restored, it is therefore illogical to assume, and almost demand, that every member of the Royal Family be bypassed, in favour of a member of the Hohenzollern house, just because they were in the line of succession in 1947, when the monarchy was abolished.

There is a Royal Family in Romania, with enough members in it, active and engaged in Romanian civic and social life to be a basis for a revived monarchy. When they have clearly stated their willingness to serve Romania in whatever capacity the nation wants, and when the Hohenzollerns equally made it clear many years ago that they have no interest in the Romanian throne, that really is undeniably clear.

If the Royal Family did not want to return to the throne, it would make sense to look to the historical lines of succession and family to find a potential heir to ask. But here's the thing: In order for the question to even be asked, in order for people to care and politicians to address the issue, someone has to draw reasonable attention to the issue.

Only the Romanian Royal Family does that, for good, bad and everything in between.
__________________
"He who has never failed to reach perfection, has a right to be the harshest critic" - Queen Elizabeth II
Reply With Quote
  #327  
Old 02-24-2016, 12:51 PM
LadyRohan's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Sweden, Slovenia
Posts: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
The Hohenzollerns had no dialogue with the King regarding the Succession in 2007.
if you have evidence to support that statement, please provide it. Otherwise it is just an unsubstantiated claim, countered by the facts. The head of the Hohenzollern answered the question of Romania before the King drew up a new suggested line of succession, in case of a restoration, where, again, he made it clear the Hohenzollerns had no interest in the Romanian throne, after that, it was logical for the King to sever formal ties with the princely house, and make it clear the Royal Family was from, for and of Romania.
__________________
"He who has never failed to reach perfection, has a right to be the harshest critic" - Queen Elizabeth II
Reply With Quote
  #328  
Old 02-24-2016, 01:15 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kingdom, Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 4,061
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRohan View Post
There is no succession to a throne that does not exist. There is therefore no automatic succession to an abolished throne. If Romania had been a monarchy continually and not had this period as a republic, the constitution would had been amended to allow female succession when it was clear the King would only have daughters. Ask anyone in Romanian politics or civil life that question, and they will all confirm it.
If the monarchy is restored, it is therefore illogical to assume, and almost demand, that every member of the Royal Family be bypassed, in favour of a member of the Hohenzollern house, just because they were in the line of succession in 1947, when the monarchy was abolished.

There is a Royal Family in Romania, with enough members in it, active and engaged in Romanian civic and social life to be a basis for a revived monarchy. When they have clearly stated their willingness to serve Romania in whatever capacity the nation wants, and when the Hohenzollerns equally made it clear many years ago that they have no interest in the Romanian throne, that really is undeniably clear.

If the Royal Family did not want to return to the throne, it would make sense to look to the historical lines of succession and family to find a potential heir to ask. But here's the thing: In order for the question to even be asked, in order for people to care and politicians to address the issue, someone has to draw reasonable attention to the issue.

Only the Romanian Royal Family does that, for good, bad and everything in between.
The Romanian royalist politicians met the King different times after 1990 in order to convince him to have a dialogue withthe Hohenzollerns or to adopt his grandson Nicholas.

The Succession is to the dynastic rights is automatic and is accrding to the 1947 rules because no Parliament could decide to change them in meantime.

Regarding the descendants of the King both his grandaughters do not live in the country and do not see to have too much interest in it either.
Reply With Quote
  #329  
Old 02-24-2016, 01:17 PM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Christmas Island
Posts: 5,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRohan View Post

[...]
There is a Royal Family in Romania, with enough members in it, active and engaged in Romanian civic and social life to be a basis for a revived monarchy.
[...]
Enough members? Active? Engaged? It is Radu with Margaretha. So now and then assisted by Maria. That is it.

The King
lives outside Romania

The Queen
lives outside Romania

Princess Margareta
does some activities

Radu Duda
the most active member of all

Princess Elena
lives outside Romania

Nicholas Medforth-Mills
is no member of the Royal House

Karina Medforth-Mills
lives outside Romania

Princess Irina
is no member of the Royal House

Michael Kreuger
is no member of the Royal House

Kohen Kreuger
is no member of the Royal House

Angelica Kreuger
is no member of the Royal House

Courtney Knight
is no member of the Royal House

Bianca Knight
is no member of the Royal House

Princess Sophie
lives outside Romania

Elisabeth Biarneix
lives outside Romania

Princess Maria
has some public appearances in Romania
Reply With Quote
  #330  
Old 02-24-2016, 01:23 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kingdom, Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 4,061
The Kreugers, the Knights, Miss Medforth Mills and Miss Biarneix have never been members of the Royal Family anyhow.
Michael Kreuger's son and Angelica Kreuger Knight's daughers have never been mentioned even in the proposed line of succession desired by the Elisabeta Palace.
Reply With Quote
  #331  
Old 02-24-2016, 01:28 PM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Christmas Island
Posts: 5,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
The Kreugers, the Knights, Miss Medforth Mills and Miss Biarneix have never been members of the Royal Family anyhow.
Michael Kreuger's son and Angelica Kreuger Knight's daughers have never been mentioned even in the proposed line of succession desired by the Elisabeta Palace.
Yes but I was more thinking about "the Royal House" not about the succession. For a comparison: Princess Philippa, Princess Flaminia and Princesa Antonia are in no any line of succession but are very much members of the House of Hohenzollern as their brother Prince Alexander. Like Radu Duda is a member of the House of Romania without having succession rights.
Reply With Quote
  #332  
Old 02-24-2016, 02:14 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kingdom, Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 4,061
The last members of the Romanian Royal Family from the descendants of the King are the 4 Princesses.
Reply With Quote
  #333  
Old 02-24-2016, 06:35 PM
maria-olivia's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 3,686
In a thread about Princess Margarthe of Denmark and Prince René of Bourbon Parme it was told that a Princess of Roumania has a relationship with former British Prime Minister Gordon Brown between 2007 and 2010 ?

Is that correct ? I never heard about that before.
Reply With Quote
  #334  
Old 02-24-2016, 06:45 PM
eya eya is online now
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: -, Greece
Posts: 5,435
Yes is true. Here an old article about that

'Romantic. Beautiful. I fell madly in love' - Telegraph
Reply With Quote
  #335  
Old 02-24-2016, 07:16 PM
LadyRohan's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Sweden, Slovenia
Posts: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
In a thread about Princess Margarthe of Denmark and Prince René of Bourbon Parme it was told that a Princess of Roumania has a relationship with former British Prime Minister Gordon Brown between 2007 and 2010 ?

Is that correct ? I never heard about that before.
The relationship took place in the late 70's, while they were both at university.
__________________
"He who has never failed to reach perfection, has a right to be the harshest critic" - Queen Elizabeth II
Reply With Quote
  #336  
Old 02-24-2016, 08:37 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kingdom, Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 4,061
Here we speak about the Succession rights ofvthe House of Hohenzollerns not about the love affairs of a Princess.
Reply With Quote
  #337  
Old 02-24-2016, 08:38 PM
LadyRohan's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Sweden, Slovenia
Posts: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
Here we speak about the Succession rights ofvthe House of Hohenzollerns not about the love affairs of a Princess.
This thread is about the succession to the Romanian throne. It is not singled out as a propaganda-thread for the Princely House of Hohenzollern.

To ask, and answer, a question about the Crown Princess of Romania, in one sentence, probably does not wreak havoc on the thread. It could instead lead to amusing thinking around whether the Romanian heiress would be married to someone who became PM in Britain now, and what that would had done for the question of succession.
__________________
"He who has never failed to reach perfection, has a right to be the harshest critic" - Queen Elizabeth II
Reply With Quote
  #338  
Old 02-24-2016, 10:25 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Gonzales, Louisiana, United States
Posts: 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRohan View Post
This thread is about the succession to the Romanian throne. It is not singled out as a propaganda-thread for the Princely House of Hohenzollern.

To ask, and answer, a question about the Crown Princess of Romania, in one sentence, probably does not wreak havoc on the thread. It could instead lead to amusing thinking around whether the Romanian heiress would be married to someone who became PM in Britain now, and what that would had done for the question of succession.
Romania does not have an heiress as they have an ex-royal family. It has been stated that when the ex-king served as one of country's prime ministers, the ex-royal family of Romania validated that Romania is now a republic. C'est la vie!
Reply With Quote
  #339  
Old 02-24-2016, 10:34 PM
Cris M's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Niterói, Brazil
Posts: 847
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotHRH View Post
Romania does not have an heiress as they have an ex-royal family. It has been stated that when the ex-king served as one of country's prime ministers, the ex-royal family of Romania validated that Romania is now a republic. C'est la vie!
The King of Romania was never Prime Minister. It was the King of the Bulgarians who served as Prime Minister of his country.

The King of Romania was deposed by a Communist coup d'état in 1947, and he never validated that Romania is now a Republic.
__________________
“If a thousand thrones I had, I would give a thousand thrones to get the slaves free in Brazil."

Princess Isabel (1846-1921), Princess Imperial and Regent of the Empire of Brazil, after she signed the Golden Law, in 1888, abolishing slavery in Brazil.
Reply With Quote
  #340  
Old 02-25-2016, 02:32 AM
Lee-Z's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Heerlen, Netherlands
Posts: 2,147
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotHRH View Post
Romania does not have an heiress as they have an ex-royal family. It has been stated that when the ex-king served as one of country's prime ministers, the ex-royal family of Romania validated that Romania is now a republic. C'est la vie!
Like Cris M said, you're mixing up Romania and Bulgaria here..
__________________

__________________
Wisdom begins in wonder - Socrates
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
hohenzollern, hohenzollern-sigmaringen, romania, royal family of romania, succession


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Mechanics of Abdication and of Succession to the Throne Ellie2 British Royals 212 12-29-2015 11:18 AM
Are the Orleans-Braganza in the line of succession to the French throne? Lecen Royal Families of France 7 12-27-2014 09:49 PM
Royal Family of Romania frank22 Royal Library 9 03-15-2013 10:19 PM
Prince Nayef bin Abdulaziz is named second in succession to the throne Itzimane Royal Family of Saudi Arabia 1 03-28-2009 07:42 AM




Popular Tags
ascot 2016 best gown best gown september 2016 best hat best outfit catherine middleton style coup d'etat crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion crown princess mette-marit current events duchess of cambridge e-mail fashion poll germany grand duke jean greece kate middleton king abdullah ii king felipe king felipe vi king willem-alexander member introduction monarchy new zealand nobel gala norway november 2016 october 2016 opening of parliament picture of the week poland state visit to norway prince bernhard prince charles princess madeleine princess marie princess mary princess mary daytime fashion princess mary fashion princess mary hats princess mary style queen juliana queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen letizia style queen mathilde queen mathildes outfits queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania queen rania in oslo royal fashion september 2016 spencers state visit state visit to denmark succession sweden the duchess of cambridge the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:42 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016
Jelsoft Enterprises