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  #281  
Old 02-07-2016, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
King Michael's decision is a private one and the Hohenzollerns did not even isdued a Statement to answer to such a decision.
On the contrary, they gave a response to King Michael's decision: more precisely, a spokeman for the Prince of Hohenzollern back in 2011 said that the Prince didn't care about it, considering the process of historical evolution that took place in the past century.
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  #282  
Old 02-08-2016, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
True and I am sure king Carl Gustav will be the first to agree that he is a member of the house Bernadotte. However, he may also point out that despite that, Bernadotte is not his last name as he has no last name.
Gosh... the King's son-in-law adding the name Bernadotte to his name. Where did that come from, all out of the blue... So weird... they are not Bernadottes, you claim ?

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  #283  
Old 02-08-2016, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
A reigning King can decide to change the surname of thid Royal Family and the Parliament can approve it. King Michael's decision is a private one and the Hohenzollerns did not even isdued a Statement to answer to such a decision.
The royal history of Romania is all linked with Hohenzollerns that were proud to be Hohenzollerns.
Now anyway it is irrelevant .
That is true. All those changes, additions and removals by Michal's own personal whims are most discutable. What I say: when a monarchy is no longer functional, a glass dome is placed over it. Everything is frozen. Too bad for them.

Some German Hohenzollern-relatives went to Court to fight the Hausgesetz which also regulates who is in line of succession for the headship of the House. Some German Hohenzollerns found the Hausgesetz outdated (as some fellow posters here find the Romanian Royal Constutition outdated). Some thought they were unlawfully removed because of a non-Standesgemäß marriage, some thought that females and males should have equal rights, etc. Anyway, plenty of reasons also heard here why the Romanian rules "should cope with modern time".

The Bundesgerichtshof (the highest administrative and civil Court of Justice in Germany) ruled the Hohenzollern Hausgesetz as lawful and applicable. The Justices ruled that violations of fundamental rights of descendants in a Will can cause that -in exceptional cases- the protected testamentary freedom of a testator should be overruled because the testamentary disposition is immoral and therefore void. For an example when a regulation aims to restrict the freedom of those affected in their highly personal decisions or reducing them in their human dignity.

The Bundesgerichtshof disagreed that the disputed Erbunfähigkeitsklausel (the clausule making Heirs unfit for succession) would aim to intervene in the selection of a particular spouse or children, or to defame not evenly matched marriage according to the views of the Nobility. Rather the aim was that a suitable successor should be found for the historic and traditional patrimonium. Such an objective is covered by the testamentary freedom. In contrast, the invasion of the fundamental rights falls not so significant that the Erbunfähigkeitsklausel would be immoral and therefore void. The legitimate interests of the descendants are already safeguarded by the inheritance laws, which assures every legal heir a part of the estate.

After this verdict by the Bundesgerichtshof the present head of the House, Prince Georg Friedrich, remained the head indeed, notwithstanding the fact that he is by no means the most senior agnate at all and that according "modern idea" Standesgemäß marriages are rubbish and that these Hohenzollerns who violated the Hausgesetz should be in line of succession too. This shows that the Justices still attach importance to legal documents from before 1918, even though there is no longer an existing monarchy.

The most senior male Hohenzollern, the Evangelic Vicar Prince Philipp Kirill von Hohenzollern (* 1968) can -like King Michael- take a pen and paper, call himself the Chef des Hauses and place his six children with Mrs Anna Soltau in line of the Prussian succession, but this is not how it works. The Bundesgerichtshof was clear that House rules are in force as long as no legal rights are infringed. So Cory is right: a King in exile can not just change everything to his own whims.
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  #284  
Old 02-08-2016, 06:35 AM
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The trouble with royalist groups and associations in former monarchies is that they seem to grow too big for their boots and have delusions that they somehow can decree what should happen in the event of a restoration. More often than not they give monarchism a bad name with their factions, bitching and back-biting.

Ironically, if a restoration does ever occur - in Romania or anywhere else - it will be (i) because enough influential politicians & opinion-makers see the interest (for them!) in it and (ii) because Joe/Jo Public 'decides' (is persuaded) that it's what s/he wants.
This is what happened in France in 1852 (and almost in 1872-3), in Greece in 1935 and in Spain in 1975.

If the Romanian public at large were asked to choose between HRH Princess Margareta of Romania, Mr. Nicholas Medforth-Mills and Herr Karl Friedrich Prinz von Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen as their restored Monarch, I wonder whom they would vote for?
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  #285  
Old 02-08-2016, 07:30 PM
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Mr Medforth Mills has many supporters without any doubt.
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  #286  
Old 02-09-2016, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Andy T View Post
The trouble with royalist groups and associations in former monarchies is that they seem to grow too big for their boots and have delusions that they somehow can decree what should happen in the event of a restoration. More often than not they give monarchism a bad name with their factions, bitching and back-biting.

Ironically, if a restoration does ever occur - in Romania or anywhere else - it will be (i) because enough influential politicians & opinion-makers see the interest (for them!) in it and (ii) because Joe/Jo Public 'decides' (is persuaded) that it's what s/he wants.
This is what happened in France in 1852 (and almost in 1872-3), in Greece in 1935 and in Spain in 1975.

If the Romanian public at large were asked to chose between HRH Princess Margareta of Romania, Mr. Nicholas Medforth-Mills and Herr Karl Friedrich Prinz von Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen as their restored Monarch, I wonder whom they would vote for?
Do you speak about HH Prince Karl of Hohenzollern?
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  #287  
Old 02-09-2016, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Andy T View Post
[...]
If the Romanian public at large were asked to choose between HRH Princess Margareta of Romania, Mr. Nicholas Medforth-Mills and Herr Karl Friedrich Prinz von Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen as their restored Monarch, I wonder whom they would vote for?
I have the idea the average man in the street in Brasov, Timisoara or Constanta, not so interested in royalty and busy with daily survival, will look to you with a confused face and say "Huh...? Midforth? Hohenzollern?"



By the way it is not Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen. When in 1869 the branch Hohenzollern-Hechingen became extinct, there is one fürstliche House left and they all have the name Hohenzollern: the need to designate in branches has disappeared.
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  #288  
Old 02-09-2016, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
I have the idea the average man in the street in Brasov, Timisoara or Constanta, not so interested in royalty and busy with daily survival, will look to you with a confused face and say "Huh...? Midforth? Hohenzollern?"



By the way it is not Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen. When in 1869 the branch Hohenzollern-Hechingen became extinct, there is one fürstliche House left and they all have the name Hohenzollern: the need to designate in branches has disappeared.
I think you're probably right!

Do you think the names Principele Nicolae and Principele Carol (Hohenzollern) would be more familiar/recognisable to the average citizen of Romania?
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  #289  
Old 02-09-2016, 10:12 AM
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Do not forget there is not a royalist majority in the country.
A lot of people would not really know the nowadays Hohenzollerns but they heard about Mr Medforth Mills.
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  #290  
Old 02-10-2016, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
Do not forget there is not a royalist majority in the country.
A lot of people would not really know the nowadays Hohenzollerns but they heard about Mr Medforth Mills.
I strongly disagree. Romanians are aware of their Kings and dinasty who creates the Greater Romania

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  #291  
Old 02-10-2016, 07:24 PM
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How many Romanians would know who HH Prince Karl pf Hohenzollern is?
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  #292  
Old 02-11-2016, 12:54 AM
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I did not said they know each family members. I said romanians know who is Hohenzollern family

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  #293  
Old 02-11-2016, 01:53 AM
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I'm quite sure Romanians will be like everyone else - those that are interested in royalty and their country's history will know more than others.

Margarita and Radu seem to have reasonably high public profiles as did Nicholas, so I'm sure many people would be aware of them whether they are pro-monarchy or not.

Nicholas' profile will now have diminished somewhat and those who took an interest will probably miss seeing him and eventually forget about him.
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  #294  
Old 02-11-2016, 03:18 AM
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The Romanians have all heard about the Hohenzollerns but they would hardly know the nowadays Hohenzollerns.
Mr Medforth Mills is probably much more popular than his aunt.
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  #295  
Old 02-11-2016, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
Nicholas' profile will now have diminished somewhat and those who took an interest will probably miss seeing him and eventually forget about him.
The impending birth of his alleged child by a Romanian young lady is hardly allowing Nicholas to fade completely from the public view.
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  #296  
Old 02-11-2016, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
I'm quite sure Romanians will be like everyone else - those that are interested in royalty and their country's history will know more than others.

Margarita and Radu seem to have reasonably high public profiles as did Nicholas, so I'm sure many people would be aware of them whether they are pro-monarchy or not.

Nicholas' profile will now have diminished somewhat and those who took an interest will probably miss seeing him and eventually forget about him.
Hasn't HRH Princess Margareta been seen as one of the most influential women in Romania in recent years? This would suggest (a) that she has a high profile and (b) she has considerable prestige among the public at large. Admittedly, perceptions of her husband impact her standing negatively but she seems to command considerable respect and admiration.

With regard to Nicholas, we shall see what the future holds... It is my personal hope that time will both counsel and heal.
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  #297  
Old 02-11-2016, 01:48 PM
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Romania has not that many ladies high in the state pyramid, the politicians are predominantly male, so it is not so strange that Margareta has a profile. As the saying goes: In the land of the blinds, One-Eye is king...
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  #298  
Old 02-11-2016, 04:28 PM
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The Princess is well known on the country but how many would really support her to be Head of State?
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  #299  
Old 02-12-2016, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Romania has not that many ladies high in the state pyramid, the politicians are predominantly male, so it is not so strange that Margareta has a profile. As the saying goes: In the land of the blinds, One-Eye is king...
It's interesting that you credit her profile to the fact that she's a woman in a male-dominated society.
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  #300  
Old 02-12-2016, 11:07 AM
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Being one of the rare ladies in the top of the social pyramid helps being recognized by the public in that same sea of male presence. This is pretty logical in my personal opinion.
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