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  #261  
Old 02-01-2016, 05:07 PM
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Hard to know what the King really feels about this complex situation.
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  #262  
Old 02-03-2016, 12:31 PM
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Hard to know what the King really feels about this complex situation.
That is the big question mark indeed. But since HRH Prince Nicolae of Romania has become Nicholas Medforth-Mills again, no new steps have been taken.

His sister Karina has not become HRH Princess Elisabeta-Karina of Romania. His cousine Elisabeth Biarneix has not become HRH Princess Elisabeta-Maria of Romania. None of both ladies have been seen in Romania since his demise and none have taken up a more formal role in the Royal House and it's public outings. So, what is now the plan of the former King? In hindsight it is a complete mess.



We already know about the mess around Princess Irina and her children. But even the father of Elisabeth Biarneix seems a fraud and an imposter. On RootsWeb an author on the House of Habsburg, Dan Willis, wrote:

Alain Biarneix appeared on the scene several years ago claiming to be Michel de Habsbourg and claimed to be a a member of a junior line of the Austian Imperial family. Archduke Otto's attorney's contacted him and advised him to stop spreading the lie as it was apparent that he was not a family member.

He then started saying he was an illegitimate Habsburg. This still did not hold up and he never specifically stated which Habsburg was his father.

He was finally sued on grounds of false impersonation and was forced to give up the Habsbourg name as he was clearly no relation to them. It was then that he chose the name "de Laufenborg" which still has Habsburg connections from the 14th/15th centuries.

He sucessfully wooed and married Princess Sophie of Roumania against her family's approval. In fact her father took the extra-ordinary step of stripping his daughter of her title for marrying the faker.

Daniel A. Willis
author, The House of Habsburg
ISBN 978-0-806346-44-2
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  #263  
Old 02-04-2016, 07:34 PM
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Is Prince Albrecht of Hohenzollern (born 1954) still in line to the throne?
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  #264  
Old 02-04-2016, 07:46 PM
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It is very unclear if the Family has any strategy for the future of the Dynasty.
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  #265  
Old 02-04-2016, 07:47 PM
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Yes,of course. Why not?
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  #266  
Old 02-04-2016, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
It is very unclear if the Family has any strategy for the future of the Dynasty.
Strategy for what dynasty?
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  #267  
Old 02-05-2016, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
Thank you, Duc! We were almost in urgent danger to forget about your "constitutional" line of succession....
There is no constitutional line of succession to an abolished throne, in an abolished constitution, that hasn't had legal force for 70 years. There is however, a former King, Queen and Royal Family of Romania, whom it is logical to assume a restored throne would be based from. To repeatedly point to a long-abolished line of succession, rejected by the very heirs that used to be in it (the Hohenzollerns), serves no purpose whatsoever.

As seems clear from the current dynastic confusion in Romania, decisions will have to be made as to a proposed and supported succession, both to the throne and equally as important, as to the headship of the Royal Family itself after the Crown Princess.

To repeatedly claim that the King has usurped any legal process by signing a document legitimizing his will for the succession after his own demise, is both tedious and wrong. He has never claimed to be anything but a former King, and head of the Royal Family. His authority is restricted to expressing his wish, as the document says, 'for Parliament to consider in the event of a restoration'.

Why the King and his motives continues to be questioned when all he has done is attempt to ensure the continuation of his dynasty, continues to elude me. The same can be said for the incredibly naive worship of a long-dead constitution that will never be revived in its old form, to create a monarchy in Europe that prohibits women on the throne, and bypasses the entire Romanian Royal Family to find a suitable prince in Germany, just because the current Royal Family has its origin in the house of Hohenzollern.

Whatever will become of Nicholas Medforth-Mills, time will tell, but most Romanians with any interest in this issue, still believe he is the future for the Royal Family.
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  #268  
Old 02-06-2016, 07:27 AM
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Because The King is a former Head of State his wishes are just wishes and the Succession remains according to the Laws at the end of Monarchy.

Obviously Mr Medforth Mills continues to be popular among many royalists.
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  #269  
Old 02-06-2016, 08:12 AM
eya eya is online now
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I believe that Nicolae is not over yet for the Monarchy in Romania. As things about the succession are cloudy and Nicolae staying popular for many royalists all can happen!
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  #270  
Old 02-06-2016, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by LadyRohan View Post
There is no constitutional line of succession to an abolished throne, in an abolished constitution, that hasn't had legal force for 70 years. There is however, a former King, Queen and Royal Family of Romania, whom it is logical to assume a restored throne would be based from. To repeatedly point to a long-abolished line of succession, rejected by the very heirs that used to be in it (the Hohenzollerns), serves no purpose whatsoever.

[...]
Michael von Hohenzollern was head-of-state of the democratic and parliamentary state of Romania twice, under that very Constitution. In 1947 the Communists seized power and enforced the King to abdicate. Romania's Constitution was shoved aside and a Communist Constitution was implemented after the coup.

When the Communists felt in 1989, a new democratic and parliamentary state of Romania was established. The democratic Government acknowledged the illegal overturn of the last democratic head-of-state (Michael von Hohenzollern), acknowledged his position as former head-of-state (by providing him a residence, an office, etc.) and also compensated him for the illegal seizure and looting of the former royal possessions by the Communists.

They only could do that because they acknowledged that Michael von Hohenzollern was the rightful head of state, twice, on base of the last democratic Constitution. What you are implying is that this Constitution is null and void, that Michael von Hohenzollern can wipe his royal derrière with it and that he can fantasize his very own line of succession altogether.

That is all nice. But fact is that the last Constitution came veeeeery handy for Michael von Hohenzollern when he, a citizen with a Danish passport at that moment, claimed a status in Romania for him and his family. When it may be not so handy for some cases (the succession) then he quickly "forgets" the document he has solemnly sworn to maintain with all his royal powers. Jajajaja....

When a system, based on hereditary succession according established and approved rules, is ended, then a glass dome is placed over it. It is frozen in time. According the rules of that Constitution, the line of succession is so-and-so. Too bad for Michael but it is as it is. Everyone is free to support a royalist restoration in Romania and everyone is free to be loyal to the one and only ever legal binding document or be loyal to a paper which Michael von Hohenzollern once has fabricated and no one has seen, and has meen modified several times on pure unilateral and personal willpower and preferences. I assume you would have liked to see Nicholas Medforth-Mills as heir? Too bad. Grandpapa has kicked him out. You seem to support that. After all Michael can make his own succession rules you say, isn't it?

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  #271  
Old 02-06-2016, 12:47 PM
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I really don't know where this kind of writing comes from, or why it is acceptable to yourself, or this forum. I will not repeat the very unacceptable phrases used in this statement of yours, as has been done in many previous ones, but for someone who is keen on using proper titles in many other threads on these forums, it would be a good thing to do the same here.
There is no person in Romania named Michael von Hohenzollern.
The former king of Romania has a title, King, used for life by him on equal basis as any former head of state. As most monarchs, he carries no last name, but has adopted the suffix 'of Romania' for himself and his family, to make clear his allegiance to his nation. If you want to reduce him to an ordinart citizen not entitled to any respect for title or position, I guess you could call him Michael Hohenzollern-Sigmaringen. It would however be just as wrong, as he relinquished his princely title years ago.
If I met you and told you my name was Anne Anderson, née Hanson, would you call me Anne Hanson from there on?

It doesn't take much to be respectful to others, and in most cases and settings, it is assumed to come naturally. That you seem to struggle so with a former King being King, indicates an unbecoming, but seemingly rooted lack of respect for others.

When King Michael reigned in Romania, the old constitution was alive, not once has anything else been claimed. After the monarchy, and the old constitution, was abolished, the King has sought to keep with the times, and encourage parliament to adapt a new Romanian monarchy to modern times, ie by including women.

Wow. What an awful faux pas for a King to make.
It has no legality in the republic of Romania. For now, it only has standing within the family, and how the different members divide the work and tasks they undertake. We can all wish for roads to be taken in different ways onwards, but since you've made it clear you don't believe in or wish for a restoration of the Romanian monarchy, I struggle to find any other motive for the denegrating that keeps on coming towards the former King and his family, than to sabotage the monarchical cause or prospects for the monarchy in Romania.

This thread is about Nicholas, the Kings grandson, who was seen as the future of the monarchy in Romania, and whos fate many struggle to understand. Without knowing why he was removed from the proposed line of succession in Romania, I disagree with the call. Maybe it was the right decision, but I and most others don't know enough to agree with it. As I've written many times, he still might become King of Romania if the monarchy is restored, because parliament and the people will decide in the end, when and if that time comes. That does not negate the Kings ability to write documents as head of the Romanian Royal Family, for parliament to consider, AT the time of a restoration.

For him not to do anything, would indicate that the Royal Family is not interested in a future in Romania. That would be far more incendiary and reckless. Until then, to those who oppose him or anything he does, he can always be attacked. If someone finds that so very necessary to do, at least do it with a tinge of respect for the position, and a touch of humility that there are other factors at play than your own deadlocked views of the Romanian King.
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  #272  
Old 02-06-2016, 04:13 PM
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It is hard to know if King Michael's descendants really hope for a Restoration but they know in the case of a Restoration probably they won't be chosen to reign.
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  #273  
Old 02-06-2016, 05:16 PM
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It is hard to know if King Michael's descendants really hope for a Restoration but they know in the case of a Restoration probably they won't be chosen to reign.
This is pure misinformation. Crown Princess Margarita made it clear before Christmas that the Royal Family is positive towards a restoration of the monarchy, and there is no reason they would 'know in the case of a restoration probably the won't be chosen to reign'.

It is both illogical and highly wishful thinking to state that the Royal Family of Romania does not see themselves in the future of a Romanian monarchy. That you wish for a different solution is fine and fair, Cory, but it's disingenuous to make claims you know to be wrong, as the RF has made clear on many occasions.
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  #274  
Old 02-06-2016, 05:34 PM
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Do you suppose they really believe they could reign?Even if they say it I really doubt they do not understand what is going on. Only a part of the royalists really support Princess Margareta not to speak about the majority of the people. After what happened in the last months their chances to ever reign are not really great.
They know in the case of Restoration of Monarchy the Parliament can choose to remain faithful to what has always been the royalist Romanian tradition and to call the Hohenzollerns.
The royalists have never been so divided and those supporting the descendants of the King look with sympathy more to Mr Medforth Mills than to anybody else.
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  #275  
Old 02-07-2016, 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
Do you suppose they really believe they could reign?Even if they say it I really doubt they do not understand what is going on. Only a part of the royalists really support Princess Margareta not to speak about the majority of the people. After what happened in the last months their chances to ever reign are not really great.
They know in the case of Restoration of Monarchy the Parliament can choose to remain faithful to what has always been the royalist Romanian tradition and to call the Hohenzollerns.
The royalists have never been so divided and those supporting the descendants of the King look with sympathy more to Mr Medforth Mills than to anybody else.
The short answer is yes. I do believe they believe in what they say. 'We are ready to serve our country if called upon'. That seems fairly clear to me. If you want to say their words mean the opposite, I guess that's up to you, but it holds no basis or logic.
Most of your post again attack the Romanian Royal Family, but I ask you again, can you please point to ANY source in Romania who actively support restarting the monarchy under a German prince of Hohenzollern? I still have not seen one.

There is uncertainty in Romania, as there would be in most countries, about how to restart a monarchy, when there is no clear heir. If the King had a son, he would be the Crown Prince and seen as a natural heir. I wish you would consider that sometimes, that in this world, in 2016, it is no longer natural to exclude Kings daughters because they're women, and that the Royal Family in Romania is seen, in the country, as the Royal Family, because they're the family of the King. That's how a Royal Family is defined. Whom in the family would be chosen to reign in a restored monarchy, I don't know, it will be up to parliament, but as you yourself say, most royalists still look to Nicholas, and so do I.
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  #276  
Old 02-07-2016, 03:54 PM
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You do not really fully understand the reality of Romania and obviously you do not know the Romanian royalists. The King is still very respected by everybody but many royalists doubt that things would be the same when he won' t be here anymore. There are royalists who look with hope towards the Hohenzollerns but no royalist Associatian officially speak about such an issue. The Succession of the Hohenzollerns represent the royalist Romanian tradition not my personal idea. I completely agree both males and females could inherit the Throne but that could be decided only by the Parliamemt when the Monarchy is restored. After what happened last august the royalists that support the King's descendants are divided between those that are in favour of Princess Margareta (whose proposed Line of Succession includes after her three sisters and two nieces) and those who still believe in Mr Medforth Mills. Uncertainty is a soft word to describe the reality of Romanian royalists.
When we speak about a reality it is wonderful if we know it a little bit otherwise is more wishful thinking.
I do not attack anybody but I know the Romanian realities more than people that only visited that country.
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  #277  
Old 02-07-2016, 04:34 PM
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[...] There is no person in Romania named Michael von Hohenzollern. [...]
On the 10th of May 2011 the then 89-years old Michael von Hohenzollern (Sigmaringen branch) decided to sever all ties with his House and since then he names himself and his descendants as Al României. When there was no person in Romania named Michael von Hohenzollern, as you claim: why then all this fuss on May 10th 2011????

Until May 10th he was Majestatea Sa Mihai I, prin grația lui Dumnezeu și voința națională, Rege al României, Mare Voievod de Alba Iulia, Principe al României, Principe de Hohenzollern (His Majesty Michael I, by the Grace of God and by national will, King of Romania, Grand-Duke of Alba Iulia, Prince of Romania, Prince of Hohenzollern).

Michael is as much a Hohenzollern as Carl-Gustaf is a Bernadotte. Come on!
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  #278  
Old 02-07-2016, 04:45 PM
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True and I am sure king Carl Gustav will be the first to agree that he is a member of the house Bernadotte. However, he may also point out that despite that, Bernadotte is not his last name as he has no last name.
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  #279  
Old 02-07-2016, 04:59 PM
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True and I am sure king Carl Gustav will be the first to agree that he is a member of the house Bernadotte. However, he may also point out that despite that, Bernadotte is not his last name as he has no last name.
Hear, hear.
There is a significant difference between a last name and a family name/house of descendancy. The King made a choice as to his affiliation, that is his prerogative and I see no reason to disregard his own, sovereign wish. It does not negate the family history, but speaks clearly about his wish for the future.
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  #280  
Old 02-07-2016, 06:46 PM
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A reigning King can decide to change the surname of thid Royal Family and the Parliament can approve it. King Michael's decision is a private one and the Hohenzollerns did not even isdued a Statement to answer to such a decision.
The royal history of Romania is all linked with Hohenzollerns that were proud to be Hohenzollerns.
Now anyway it is irrelevant .
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