Restoration of the Monarchy in Romania

[MAfan]

I'd also add to what Fearghas has just written that Nicolae was strongly sponsored and supported by two well known, esteemed, respected and trusted persons in Romania, who are King Michael and Crown Princess Margarita, while I fail to see such a support to the Hohenzollerns.
Equally Nicolae showed a great interest and commitment in Romania, while the Hohenzollerns doesn't seem to have them (or if they have some interest they certainly do not show it).

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I'd also add to what Fearghas has just written that Nicolae was strongly sponsored and supported by two well known, esteemed, respected and trusted persons in Romania, who are King Michael and Crown Princess Margarita, while I fail to see such a support to the Hohenzollerns.
Equally Nicolae showed a great interest and commitment in Romania, while the Hohenzollerns doesn't seem to have them (or if they have some interest they certainly do not show it).

As long as the former head of state of Romania is around, which is King Michael, it is with him and his family the Romanians have to deal. And of course the relationship became sour when the current Fürst, Prince Carl Friedrich dismissed Radu Duda's Hohenzollern title as "a farce" and blamed his fellow Hohenzollern Prince (King Michael) for letting this happen.

The current Fürst shows little interest in Romania: what can he do? He does not "fit" in King Michael's "perspective" for the Royal House. His son, the Hereditary Prince Alexander seems busy with fighting conglomerates who want to destroy rain forests to grow palmolive trees instead. (He is an activistic member of Rettet den Regenwald and with that he does show he has commitment for cases which are close to his heart).

When Prince Alexander was introduced and supported in the same way as Nicholas Medforth-Mills I fail to see why this promising young man could not have had the same profile as Nicholas.

 

[MAfan]

I don't think nor say that, if Alexander were introduced and supported as Nicholas has been in the past years, then he couldn't have the same profile as Nicholas. I don't think (and never said) that Alexander Hohenzollern can't be enough committed and promising as Nicholas.
Just, I think that there is a large difference between their situations.
Nicholas had the immediate and strong support of King Michael and Princess Margarita. This allowed him to have soon some visibilty. He quickly became rather popular and appreciated, partly for sure for his work and committment, but I'm sure also partly (and necessarily) due to the support he got from two respected and appreciated public figures in Romania.
Prince Alexander of Hohenzollern seems not to have any such support. Probably if he moved to Romania, learnt Romanian and engaged himself in various activities and charities in Romania he could became as popular as Nicholas, but it would take a far longer time due to the lack of visibility that Nicholas had thanks to the Royal Family.

My point is not that the Hohenzollerns aren't good enough for successfully becoming the claimants to the Romanian throne, but that they don't have the same visibilty and support that (some of) King Michael's descendants have.
And also I don't think that they will have it in the coming years. After King Michael's death his natural successor will appear to be Princess Margarita and not an unknown German distant cousin.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Someone has to start somewhere. Karina Medforth-Mills and Elizabeth Biarneix are possible even unknown as Prince Alexander von Hohenzollern but these two ladies are in line of succession. Nicholas Medforth-Mills also only became more known to the public when the royal family started to go out with him and actively promoted his visibility.

Nicholas and Karina as well their cousine Elizabeth were never in the line of succession until their grandfather King Michael changed it. Prince Alexander was always in the line of succession (and still is, depending which document is take more au sérieux) until King Michael had the luminous idea to scrap his Hohenzollern relatives.

 

[Benjamin]

Article 77 of the Constitution of 1923 requires that the successor be Eastern Orthodox.

Ergo, from a legitimist point of view, there are no Hohenzollern princes eligible to succeed the King.

 

[fearghas]

Enough already. This thread is getting tiresome. People have taken a side and are simply repeating themselves and no one is going to change their mind. Until there is something new to say let it rest.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Article 77 of the Constitution of 1923 requires that the successor be Eastern Orthodox.

[...]

To quote Henri IV: "Paris vaut bien une Messe!" (Paris is well worth a Mass!).



And please explain what makes Carl Friedrich von Hohenzollern or his son Alexander unsuitable in the eyes of legitimists?

 

[Cory]

I don't think nor say that, if Alexander were introduced and supported as Nicholas has been in the past years, then he couldn't have the same profile as Nicholas. I don't think (and never said) that Alexander Hohenzollern can't be enough committed and promising as Nicholas.
Just, I think that there is a large difference between their situations.
Nicholas had the immediate and strong support of King Michael and Princess Margarita. This allowed him to have soon some visibilty. He quickly became rather popular and appreciated, partly for sure for his work and committment, but I'm sure also partly (and necessarily) due to the support he got from two respected and appreciated public figures in Romania.
Prince Alexander of Hohenzollern seems not to have any such support. Probably if he moved to Romania, learnt Romanian and engaged himself in various activities and charities in Romania he could became as popular as Nicholas, but it would take a far longer time due to the lack of visibility that Nicholas had thanks to the Royal Family.

My point is not that the Hohenzollerns aren't good enough for successfully becoming the claimants to the Romanian throne, but that they don't have the same visibilty and support that (some of) King Michael's descendants have.
And also I don't think that they will have it in the coming years. After King Michael's death his natural successor will appear to be Princess Margarita and not an unknown German distant cousin.

The support for King Michael's Family is largely diminished after what happened.

 

[Cory]

To quote Henri IV: "Paris vaut bien une Messe!" (Paris is well worth a Mass!).



And please explain what makes Carl Friedrich von Hohenzollern or his son Alexander unsuitable in the eyes of legitimists?

For the Romanian legitimists only the Hohenzollerns represent the future of Monarchy. More and more royalists think of the Hohenzzolerns but none of the royalists Association said anything official regarding Succession of King Micharl after what happened in august.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I have the same idea like you: Legitimists are people whom follow a legalistic way. This means that Prince Carl Friedrich and Prince Alexander are the legitime successors of King Michael but apparently -according Benjamin - the Legitimists have problems with these two. Why?

 

[Cory]

The Legitimists support Prince Karl and his Line of Succession. Those who do not accept the Hohenzollerns are the supporters of the ideas of Elisabeta Palace and they are not Legitimists.

 

[Benjamin]

I have the same idea like you: Legitimists are people whom follow a legalistic way. This means that Prince Carl Friedrich and Prince Alexander are the legitime successors of King Michael but apparently -according Benjamin - the Legitimists have problems with these two. Why?

Apparently you did not understand the original post.

It stated that under the 1923 Constitution to which you refer, none of the Princes of the House of Hohenzollern can currently succeed in Romania. They are all Catholic and they must be Eastern Orthodox to be in the line of succession. Paris might have been worth a mass hundreds of years ago, but is modern-day Bucharest worth such a conversion?

One doubts it.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

You never know. Everything is possible, even a Catholic King in Romania. Who thought the King of Spain or even the Pope would abdicate? For the first one even a special Bill had to be read by Parliament. So in the most unlikely scenario that the monarchy will be restored in Romania (it was already most unlikely when Mr Nicholas Medforth-Mills was in the defunct Royal House), we will see other most unlikely scenarious, like allowing females in the line of succession, and freedom of Faith for the head of state.

 

[Cory]

Someone has to start somewhere. Karina Medforth-Mills and Elizabeth Biarneix are possible even unknown as Prince Alexander von Hohenzollern but these two ladies are in line of succession. Nicholas Medforth-Mills also only became more known to the public when the royal family started to go out with him and actively promoted his visibility.

Nicholas and Karina as well their cousine Elizabeth were never in the line of succession until their grandfather King Michael changed it. Prince Alexander was always in the line of succession (and still is, depending which document is take more au sérieux) until King Michael had the luminous idea to scrap his Hohenzollern relatives.

King Michael has no right to change without a Parliament decisions the Succession rules so HSH Prince Alexande is still second in Line to the throne.

 

[Cory]

Today there is no National Church officialy in Romania but only 18 equal religious denominations. The Hohenzollerns can become Kings of Romania and remain Catholic.

 

[Benjamin]

Today there is no National Church officialy in Romania but only 18 equal religious denominations. The Hohenzollerns can become Kings of Romania and remain Catholic.

This is not true according to the 1923 Constitution that some argue still governs the Royal House.

All dynasts in Romania must be Orthodox-this excludes all the Hohenzollerns, unless one converts.

Therefore, unless Nicholas is reinstated, the Romanian Royal Family will either become extinct on the death of King Michael per the 1923 Constitution, or it will continue via the female line (which now only has females in line) per the 2007 House Law that King Michael signed.

 

[Cory]

The Constitution of 1923 asked the Princes of the Royal House to be Orthodox. If Monarchy is restored with the Hohenzollerns nobody will ask the same thing in a new Constitution. Romanians do not care about the religion of the Head of State. Carol I and Ferdinand I were both Catholics and were the best Kings Romania has ever had.
Now the president of the republic is lutheran but nobody cares about his religious affiliation.

 

[Benjamin]

The Constitution of 1923 asked the Princes of the Royal House to be Orthodox. If Monarchy is restored with the Hohenzollerns nobody will ask the same thing in a new Constitution. Romanians do not care about the religion of the Head of State. Carol I and Ferdinand I were both Catholics and were the best Kings Romania has ever had.
Now the president of the republic is lutheran but nobody cares about his religious affiliation.

We are not talking about the president of the Romanian republic, however.

The Constitution of 1923 does not *ask* that the Princes of the Royal House be Orthodox; it requires it. This was why the King and Queen were not able to have an ecumenical wedding: the King could not promise the Pope to raise their children as Catholics as His Majesty was constitutionally bound to bring them up in the Orthodox faith-which he did.

One either has to accept the guidelines for the Royal Family under the 1923 Constitution in their entirety or not accept them at all.

 

[Cory]

The Succession will pass to the Hohenzollern Princes and nobody will ask them to convert to Orthodoxy. There will be a new Constitution anyway.

The fact the Romanians did not choose an Orthodox but a Lutheran as President indicates the Romanians are not interested in the religion of the Head of State.

 

[Benjamin]

The facts about the Romanian royal succession do not support your opinion, but you are fully entitled to it.

You were certainly eager to embrace Prince Nicholas, but now that he has been foolishly excluded from the picture, you easily change your whole stance on the matter.

 

[Cory]

I strongly believed young Nicholas was the only chance of His Family and many people belived the same but I have always supported the Princes of Hohenzollerns as Heirs.

 

[CSENYC]

Barack Obama was elected president in the US while claiming to be Christian, but with atheist/Muslim roots. He's also now claiming to be Jewish. People in the US don't ignore that, and I don't see why people in Romania would ignore the religion of the head of state either.

I also don't see why in the world people would now accept a German and German-speaking king. Back in 1860 or 1900, when democracy was newer and monarchy was not questioned, people would accept a non-native head of state being imposed on the country. Since only half of people who have a preference as to Romania's form of government would even want King Michael, a Romanian hero, back, it would surely be much more difficult to get people to accept a non-Romanian.

 

[eya]

The Hohezollerns never come to the Romania with this situation.Only when and if restore the monarchy in the country and someone officialy ask them to come as Kings only then they thinking about it. But that never happen at least soon.

 

[MAfan]

The Succession will pass to the Hohenzollern Princes and nobody will ask them to convert to Orthodoxy. There will be a new Constitution anyway.

If there will ever be a change of goverment from republic to monarchy and there will be a new Constitution, then it's possible (if not likely) that this new Constitution wont follow the succession according to the 1923 Constitution, isn't it?

I do agree with Benjamin's point: either one accepts the whole requirements for the succession according to the 1923 Constitution or not.
If the so-called "legitimists" are those who follow the legalistic way (according to Duc_et_Pair's definition, a few posts above), they should follow the whole of it.

 

[Cory]

The Hohezollerns never come to the Romania with this situation.Only when and if restore the monarchy in the country and someone officialy ask them to come as Kings only then they thinking about it. But that never happen at least soon.

How do you know that?

 

[Cory]

If there will ever be a change of goverment from republic to monarchy and there will be a new Constitution, then it's possible (if not likely) that this new Constitution wont follow the succession according to the 1923 Constitution, isn't it?

I do agree with Benjamin's point: either one accepts the whole requirements for the succession according to the 1923 Constitution or not.
If the so-called "legitimists" are those who follow the legalistic way (according to Duc_et_Pair's definition, a few posts above), they should follow the whole of it.

The legitimists support the Princes of Hohenzollern according to the Constitution of 1923. When the Monarchy will be restored nobody will ask a conversion of the Princes of Hohenzollern.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

We can forget any restoration but I agree that the Constitution which grants every Romanian citizen the freedom of Faith, will include the King.

 

[Cory]

The people wants a serious Head of State and does not care about his religion.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I do care about a religion. When a head of state is a serious Catholic, I feel we share the same values, as I am Catholic too. It is a mindset, a framework but indeed, as societies are secular, this is not of decisive importance.

 

[Cory]

I care too about the religion of the Head of State but nowadays the Romanians want only a serious Head of State even if he is Lutheran, Greek-Catholic, Roman-Catholic, Orthodox or he belongs to other religious denomination.
The nowadays president was voted by the people even if he was Lutheran and many of the Orthodox clergy supported the prime minister because Orthodox.
The Princes of Hohenzollern are German but the nowadays president is German too (even if born in Romania).