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  #1181  
Old 07-04-2016, 07:08 PM
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But for doing this they had (and still have) one source of income, which is the pension paid by the State to King Michael as a former Head of State (in which quality he also gets several other benefits).
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  #1182  
Old 07-04-2016, 07:11 PM
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But for doing this they had (and still have) one source of income, which is the pension paid by the State to King Michael as a former Head of State (in which quality he also gets several other benefits).
What about the lands/ forests,other properties?
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  #1183  
Old 07-04-2016, 07:20 PM
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Until now for years they paid their staff and they organized big events and they travelled a lot. They are not poor at all.
It's irrelevant what funds they have when it comes to public representation. That's a task performed, and funds provided to ensure it's taken care of in a regal and dignified manner.
That's the cost of any monarchy, and it gives a much better return than any republic ever has.
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  #1184  
Old 07-04-2016, 07:21 PM
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What about the lands/ forests,other properties?
As I said in my previous post, I don't know if and how much income lands and forests generate. And however the upkeeping of the castles owned by the Royal Family surely must be quite expensive. In addition, there was the recent request by King Michael to be from paying taxes For these reasons I'm wondering if, after all, they are so much rich - in terms of cash - as you described them.
But since the financial accounts of the Royal Family are not public, I don't think we cannot know its exact financial situation.
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Old 07-04-2016, 07:27 PM
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What about the lands/ forests,other properties?
The lands and properties owned by the former royal family are not exactly Belgravia in London or the Bois de Boulogne in Paris, money-making properties. To my uunderstanding it are forests, moorlands and agricultural ground. It helps that the costs of staffing in Romania is waaaaay lower than in Northern-Europe but I can not imagine it makes the family rich. They can keep a standard. When King Michael passes away, his fortune has to be divided by his widow and their five children. It will fragment and melt away as snow for the sun. Margarita can not refuse the generous offer, I think.
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  #1186  
Old 07-04-2016, 07:37 PM
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When King Michael passes away, his fortune has to be divided by his widow and their five children. It will fragment and melt away as snow for the sun. Margarita can not refuse the generous offer, I think.
This is also a good point to keep in mind (and to which I have never thought before); and with the death of the King also the incomes from his pension will end.
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  #1187  
Old 07-04-2016, 07:47 PM
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I think that everyone involved in the proposed restoration needs to take a step back and realize:

1. A king is a government employee and, in today's European countries, is democratically accountable. A king is not above the law and is not a deity.

2. Like it or not, Romania is a republic, and working within the republic is the way to accomplish a restoration.

3. Monarchies are desirable for various reasons, such as having a nonpartisan person who does good in society. Focusing on obtaining the benefits of a monarchy can be done even if the monarchy is not the same as it was in, say, 1923 or 1947.

4. Not all Romanian monarchs were desirable: e.g., King Carol II, so restoring the monarchical system of 1923, which fell into dictatorship, may not be desirable.
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  #1188  
Old 07-04-2016, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The lands and properties owned by the former royal family are not exactly Belgravia in London or the Bois de Boulogne in Paris, money-making properties. To my uunderstanding it are forests, moorlands and agricultural ground. It helps that the costs of staffing in Romania is waaaaay lower than in Northern-Europe but I can not imagine it makes the family rich. They can keep a standard. When King Michael passes away, his fortune has to be divided by his widow and their five children. It will fragment and melt away as snow for the sun. Margarita can not refuse the generous offer, I think.
They will be divided if before that moment these properties were not divided otherwise.
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  #1189  
Old 07-04-2016, 09:01 PM
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I think that everyone involved in the proposed restoration needs to take a step back and realize:

1. A king is a government employee and, in today's European countries, is democratically accountable. A king is not above the law and is not a deity.

2. Like it or not, Romania is a republic, and working within the republic is the way to accomplish a restoration.

3. Monarchies are desirable for various reasons, such as having a nonpartisan person who does good in society. Focusing on obtaining the benefits of a monarchy can be done even if the monarchy is not the same as it was in, say, 1923 or 1947.

4. Not all Romanian monarchs were desirable: e.g., King Carol II, so restoring the monarchical system of 1923, which fell into dictatorship, may not be desirable.
Nobody denies the country is a republic even the way the country became a republic was not a democratical way.
The problem now is how to restore Monarchy in this situation . The politicians are not really interested and the monarchists need to be more united.
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  #1190  
Old 07-04-2016, 09:35 PM
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They will be divided if before that moment these properties were not divided otherwise.

Is it possible in Romania to create foundations/trusts that can consolidate the assets of a family so that these holdings are not divided as such?
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  #1191  
Old 07-04-2016, 09:44 PM
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I do not know how things are now but let's hope all the 5 Princesses will get equal parts of the inheritance when the time comes. It is important that all the goods remain in the hands of the descedants of the Sovereign.
The Princes of Hohenzollern will have to buy properties in the country if they want to live in Romania.
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Old 07-04-2016, 10:10 PM
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It seems that it is indeed an option to create a trust that can protect the properties that the Royal House possesses for the benefit of its members.

The Romanian Digest No.3 March 2012

The wisest course of action would be to make sure that all of the Princesses are compensated (monetarily, if necessary, for their shares) in an adequate fashion when the time comes. However, all immovable private properties should be put into a foundation that is managed by professionals and whose income is used for the upkeep of the Royal House in Romania. This is what has been done by many non-reigning families in other countries, and it is by far the best solution to insure the continued financial independence of future generations of the Romanian royal family.
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  #1193  
Old 07-04-2016, 10:15 PM
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It seems that it is indeed an option to create a trust that can protect the properties that the Royal House possesses for the benefit of its members.

The Romanian Digest No.3 March 2012

The wisest course of action would be to make sure that all of the Princesses are compensated (monetarily, if necessary, for their shares) in an adequate fashion when the time comes. However, all immovable private properties should be put into a foundation that is managed by professionals and whose income is used for the upkeep of the Royal House in Romania. This is what has been done by many non-reigning families in other countries, and it is by far the best solution to insure the continued financial independence of future generations of the Romanian royal family.
This is a matter to be discussed by the 5 Princesses and by the 5 grandchildren of the King. If the grandchildren won't be interested to.live in the country probably all these goods will be sold anyway.
In case of return of Monarchy Peles castle can be bought by the state and become the summer residence of the next King from the Hohenzollern House.
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  #1194  
Old 07-04-2016, 10:53 PM
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Given past history, one may presume that communication in such a large family is not always easy to facilitate.

Princesses Helen, Sophie and Marie joined their eldest sister Crown Princess Margarita for the 10 May celebrations this year; it may be fair to conclude that these four of the sisters have a dialogue. With Irina Walker, it is more difficult to surmise, as she is a private person living in the United States; her children are also private persons, and they would not necessarily be interested in any sort of Romanian inheritance since they are members of the well-endowed Kreuger family. Only the children of Princesses Helen and Sophie are likely to be possible beneficiaries from the Royal Family's fortune in Romania.

Keeping in mind the restitution that was granted to King Michael and the seeming competent ability of the property administrators to manage these assets, I believe that the Royal House will certainly do all that is necessary to guarantee that this legacy remains within the family and as intact as is feasible.
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  #1195  
Old 07-05-2016, 03:45 AM
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Given past history, one may presume that communication in such a large family is not always easy to facilitate.

Princesses Helen, Sophie and Marie joined their eldest sister Crown Princess Margarita for the 10 May celebrations this year; it may be fair to conclude that these four of the sisters have a dialogue. With Irina Walker, it is more difficult to surmise, as she is a private person living in the United States; her children are also private persons, and they would not necessarily be interested in any sort of Romanian inheritance since they are members of the well-endowed Kreuger family. Only the children of Princesses Helen and Sophie are likely to be possible beneficiaries from the Royal Family's fortune in Romania.

Keeping in mind the restitution that was granted to King Michael and the seeming competent ability of the property administrators to manage these assets, I believe that the Royal House will certainly do all that is necessary to guarantee that this legacy remains within the family and as intact as is feasible.
Even if Princess Irina and her children and grandchildren live in the USA they have to inherit as all the others. There must be equal shares for each of the 5 Princesses.
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  #1196  
Old 07-05-2016, 05:39 AM
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In England and Wales, when it comes to individuals leaving property in their Wills, the ability to leave any property and assets on death to individuals, entities or organisations, in whatever proportion the deceased desires, is well known.

This is not the case in the rest of Europe, where “forced heirship rules” exist. These rules, which differ in their application across countries, impose succession principals, so that the deceased cannot control how property is passed down to spouses, children or other beneficiaries.

It is roughly known as the Code Napoléon, which ensures equal rights of all children to an inheritance and to give protection to the surviving spouse. ("I leave all my assets to my maîtresse" is impossible on the Continent).
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  #1197  
Old 07-05-2016, 09:19 AM
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Let's hope the rights of the 5 Princesses will be respected at the same level and no arrangements were done to prejudice any of them of an equal share.
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  #1198  
Old 07-05-2016, 09:34 AM
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Let's hope the rights of the 5 Princesses will be respected at the same level and no arrangements were done to prejudice any of them of an equal share.
Well, I hope King Michael places the royal domains (Savarsin, Peles, Pelisor, etc.) into the ownership of a Foundation, like so many royal families have done. Otherwise the value of these domains needs to be divided amongst the heirs. Imagine that the value of these domains is 15 million Euro, this means that 1/5th is for Princess Margareta and 4/5th for her sisters. When Princess Margareta wants to keep these domains, she needs to compensate her sisters for 12 million Euro. The best option to keep all together is to place it in a Foundation Historic Collections of the Royal House of Romania, with rights of usufruct to the descendants of King Michael. This prevents a fragmentation of the historic properties, this also prevents heavy succession taxes.
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Old 07-05-2016, 09:39 AM
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Well, I hope King Michael places the royal domains (Savarsin, Peles, Pelisor, etc.) into the ownership of a Foundation, like so many royal families have done. Otherwise the value of these domains needs to be divided amongst the heirs. Imagine that the value of these domains is 15 million Euro, this means that 1/5th is for Princess Margareta and 4/5th for her sisters. When Princess Margareta wants to keep these domains, she needs to compensate her sisters for 12 million Euro. The best option to keep all together is to place it in a Foundation Historic Collections of the Royal House of Romania, with rights of usufruct to the descendants of King Michael.
Probably the descendant will sell these properties anyhow. Probably the Medforth Mills and thevKreugers and the Knights and the Biarneix won't live in Romania so it will be easier to sell everything.
If Peles Castle was left to the King by King Ferdinand only because he was the new Sovereign than there will be a debate about the future of the castle.
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  #1200  
Old 07-07-2016, 11:33 AM
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This evening at 10 pm (Romanian time) Realitatea Tv will host a debate moderated by Rares Bogdan called "Monarchy, Extreme Emergency".Some of the guests of the debate will be the well known monarchists Marius Ghilezan, Marius Oprea but also the journalists Ion M. Ionita and Sorin Rosca Stanescu. There will be also somebody from ANRM, an association supporting fully the ideas of Elisabeta Palace.
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