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  #1141  
Old 07-03-2016, 05:03 PM
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The Romanians should be ask directly if they want to support financially the King's Family when the country is a republic. Many have not even heard about this project of law yet but won't certainly be happy to hear.
It is obvious this project is wanted by Elisabeta Palace and is the result of a strategy started few years ago. There is no doubt of that. That's why it is so painful for the monarchists.
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  #1142  
Old 07-03-2016, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
The Romanians should be ask directly if they want to support financially the King's Family when the country is a republic. Many have not even heard about this project of law yet but won't certainly be happy to hear.
It is obvious this project is wanted by Elisabeta Palace and is the result of a strategy started few years ago. There is no doubt of that. That's why it is so painful for the monarchists.
You're spinning conspiracy theories to fit your own opinion of the Royal Family and the issues around succession. Most people couldn't care less, and those that do would laugh if asked whether the Royal Family should be replaced by an imported German prince.
People are not asked directly what the government spends our money on, that's not how it works. Your claim that many won't be happy to hear that the Royal Family will receive public funding for tasks done, is a self-inflicted wound for the whole cause of monarchy, as that would mean that most won't want the monarchy at all.
Every reigning monarchy is funded by the taxpayers. I think it's very respectful of the government to include the Royal House in a more organized form, especially when they know that people might want to ask them to return to the throne completely, and sideline the republic.

That this law is wanted by the Royal House is not a negative in itself, to spin it as such is just trying to create chaos where none exist.
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  #1143  
Old 07-03-2016, 05:32 PM
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The new communists tried to do everything in the first years after 1989 to stop the King's Family to have any influence in the country in order to avoid any chance for the Monarchy. Now the republican authorities know how to deal with the Kin's Family in order that both parts are happy and the Monarchy is not restored. This strategy is clearly working being opposed only by the monarchists who are not interested in the financial benefits of a family but in the restoration of Monarchy itself.
To say the people should have no word in how the taxpayers money are spent is outrageous and against any democratic rule.
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  #1144  
Old 07-03-2016, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
The new communists tried to do everything in the first years after 1989 to stop the King's Family to have any influence in the country in order to avoid any chance for the Monarchy. Now the republican authorities know how to deal with the Kin's Family in order that both parts are happy and the Monarchy is not restored.
Just because you repeat a fallacy over and over, does not mean it is a truth.

The law does not prohibit a change of government, doesn't speak about the future of the monarchy at all, and does in no way hinder the choices that lie ahead.
Debate the actual law all you like, but to invent stuff that isn't in it, is just pointless.
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  #1145  
Old 07-03-2016, 05:37 PM
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The Romanian monarchists should be respected even if they disagree with Elisabeta Palace on important issues. The times when communists impose their one accepted ideas is over.
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  #1146  
Old 07-03-2016, 06:17 PM
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The fact that Princess Margareta would be "Crown Princess" is supported by no Constitution of the Kindom of Romania and the term "Custodian of the Crown" has never existed in the Royal House of Romania or in the laws of the Kingdom of Romania either. She is the eldest daughter of the King and the President of the Red Cross. No relevamce whatsoever for the restoration of Monarchy. She is not involved in a public debate asking for the restoration of Monarchy and she is not even very close now with many monarchist associations.
What really matters is how the campaign for the restoration continues, how the monarchist Associations build consensus and how the public opinion reacts.
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  #1147  
Old 07-03-2016, 06:20 PM
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The fact that Princess Margareta would be "Crown Princess" is supported by no Constitution of the Kindom of Romania and the term "Custodian of the Crown" has never existed in the Royal House of Romania or in the laws of the Kingdom of Romania either. She is the eldest daughter of the King and the President of the Red Cross. No relevamce whatsoever for the restoration of Monarchy. She is not involved in a public debate asking for the restoration of Monarchy and she is not even very close now with many monarchist associations.
What really matters is how the campaign for the restoration continues, how the monarchist Associations build consensus and how the public opinion reacts.
There is no serious monarchical campaign that advocates bypassing the Royal Family with regards to succession. She is the designated heir by her father, recognized by the government, politicians, media and most serious intellectuals. That's an heir, regardless of what an abolished law said 70 years ago.
We can start this debate again, or just point out that every argument has been presented before, and move on.
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  #1148  
Old 07-03-2016, 06:22 PM
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What is the position of the National Alliance for the Restoration of the Monarchy (ANRM) on the proposed law?
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  #1149  
Old 07-03-2016, 06:27 PM
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What is the position of the National Alliance for the Restoration of the Monarchy (ANRM) on the proposed law?
ANRM, as well as CMC and CMB, have all supported the process of finding a legal framework to establish the Royal House as a legal entity with rights etc., and although their primary positions are to restore the monarchy forthwith, their unwavering allegiance lies with the King, the Custodian and every member of the Royal Family, whom they trust will make right choices forward.

Alianța Națională pentru Restaurarea Monarhiei cere să fie consultată
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  #1150  
Old 07-03-2016, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyRohan View Post
ANRM, as well as CMC and CMB, have all supported the process of finding a legal framework to establish the Royal House as a legal entity with rights etc., and although their primary positions are to restore the monarchy forthwith, their unwavering allegiance lies with the King, the Custodian and every member of the Royal Family, whom they trust will make right choices forward.

Alianța Națională pentru Restaurarea Monarhiei cere să fie consultată
Thank you, LadyRohan!

From what one can tell, the ANRM does seem to be one of the larger monarchist organizations in Romania.

It is very encouraging that there are several important groups who support the Royal Family and the idea of Monarchy and who are also pragmatic about the benefits of the law.

Is there any sort of timetable as to how/when the law will be passed?
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  #1151  
Old 07-03-2016, 06:47 PM
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ANRM is certainly not the largest group linked in a way to the idea of Monarchy. Probably the largest monarchist group is the one leaded by Dr. Marinca and called the Monarchist Clubs. The Movement for Kingdom and Crown is quite new.
This project of law has to arrive to the Parliament than needs the advices of different institutions and only then enter in the debate in Commissions and in the two Chambers. Because of the elections at the end of autumn it is probably the project won't arrive to conclusion before the elections. The different mass media reactions of these days (mainly extremely against the project) will be probably again in autumn.
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  #1152  
Old 07-03-2016, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Benjamin View Post
Thank you, LadyRohan!

From what one can tell, the ANRM does seem to be one of the larger monarchist organizations in Romania.

It is very encouraging that there are several important groups who support the Royal Family and the idea of Monarchy and who are also pragmatic about the benefits of the law.

Is there any sort of timetable as to how/when the law will be passed?
I quite agree, it is very heartening, and added to that, both major parties in parliament, the Social Democrats (PSD) and the Liberal (PNL) are in favour of the law. The political leaders have repeatedly referred to the timing being right, the monarchy has a strong profile, the 150th anniversary of the monarchy etc. as reasons to make this change now.
There is no date, but the government has said that they will most likely propose this law in an 'emergency session', so it can be implemented as soon as the draft is approved with regards to language and so forth, and that will most likely take slightly longer than the PM has proposed (he said a few weeks a week ago). Parliament will have its next ordinary period of sitting from the start of September, so unless the government recalls members to vote in an emergency session, which I don't think the law needs, it should be voted into effect at the start of September.
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  #1153  
Old 07-03-2016, 07:04 PM
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The Monarchy is not strong in polls taking into account only 25-3o% support it.
The 150 years anniversary since Prince Carol of Hogenzollern started his reign was quite ignored by the majority of the people .
Probably not all the deputees and senators agree with this project and one of those who spoke against it was the young monarchist liberal deputee Daniel Gheorghe. We will see in autumn the real support for this project in the mych contrsted Romanian parliament.
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  #1154  
Old 07-03-2016, 08:17 PM
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I do agree with Cory's viewpoint regarding the succession. Without active successors the future of the michaelist line seems very uncertain to me. But apart from that, the offer by the Government to acknowledge the former royal family with a semi-official status is too good to refuse. It gives the former royal family a structure to build on. It indeed can give a boost because no longer it are goodwilling people servicing but a transparant and accountable organization. The Hohenzollerns, well to do, have such an organization for centuries. Without structure and professionalism, an aspiring royal family will achieve nothing, no matter the head is Margarita or Karl Friedrich.
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  #1155  
Old 07-03-2016, 08:27 PM
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I do agree with Cory's viewpoint regarding the succession. Without active successors the future of the michaelist line seems very uncertain to me. But apart from that, the offer by the Government to acknowledge the former royal family with a semi-official status is too good to refuse. It gives the former royal family a structure to build on. It indeed can give a boost because no longer it are goodwilling people servicing but a transparant and accountable organization. The Hohenzollerns, well to do, have such an organization for centuries. Without structure and professionalism, an aspiring royal family will achieve nothing, no matter the head is Margarita or Karl Friedrich.
This is a possible arrangement for the members of the King's Family that live at Elisabeta Palace. Hardly their nieces will benefir from it. Nothing to do with the restoration of Monarchy though.
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  #1156  
Old 07-04-2016, 04:26 AM
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This is a possible arrangement for the members of the King's Family that live at Elisabeta Palace. Hardly their nieces will benefir from it. Nothing to do with the restoration of Monarchy though.
For a meaningful way to a restoration one needs an organization, a structure, a framework to build on. In my personal assessment exactly this arrangement gives the former royal family 'body' in a republic. Otherwise it would remain stuck in a dependance on goodwill, on gifts, on volunteers. It gives Elisabeta Palace a fundament to build on. Who the residents are in Elisabeta Palace, that is another question. Note that when Prince Karl Friedrich would become the Head of the Royal House of Romania, he would benefit from this arrangement as well.
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  #1157  
Old 07-04-2016, 04:39 AM
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The Hohenzollerns have never asked for such an arrangement and they have nothing to do with it.
The King's Family has a lot of properties and can organize itself very well because of those properties. It is unacceptable in a republic the taxpayers money many have to be spent both for the republican institutions and for the "Royal House".Obviously the King's Family know that when the King won't be officially anymore the members of the Family will have to leave the Palace so that's why they need the deal with the republican politicians. Nothing to do with the restoration of Monarchy.
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  #1158  
Old 07-04-2016, 05:28 AM
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The King's Family has a lot of properties and can organize itself very well because of those properties. It is unacceptable in a republic the taxpayers money many have to be spent both for the republican institutions and for the "Royal House".Obviously the King's Family know that when the King won't be officially anymore the members of the Family will have to leave the Palace so that's why they need the deal with the republican politicians. Nothing to do with the restoration of Monarchy.
That must be a very veiled way of saying "when the King is dead."

We have debated the exact specifications of the law that currently allows the Royal Family to inhabit Elisabeta Palace.

As it stands now, it was my understanding that the residence can be used by the Royal House during the lifetimes of King Michael, Queen Anne and Crown Princess Margarita.

A 99-year-lease would technically allow for the sixth and even seventh generations of the Royal Family (i.e. Prince Nicholas and any children he may have) to live in Elisabeta Palace, as obviously the Crown Princess and her husband will be long dead by then. Therefore, this particular portion of the law does seem particularly well-suited to providing the Romanian royals with a base in Bucharest for the next century, and it is difficult to understand why monarchists would oppose such a possibility. Otherwise, the Royal House would be confined to living on their properties outside of the capital, away from the centre of national life.
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  #1159  
Old 07-04-2016, 05:37 AM
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That must be a very veiled way of saying "when the King is dead."

We have debated the exact specifications of the law that currently allows the Royal Family to inhabit Elisabeta Palace.

As it stands now, it was my understanding that the residence can be used by the Royal House during the lifetimes of King Michael, Queen Anne and Crown Princess Margarita.

A 99-year-lease would technically allow for the sixth and even seventh generations of the Royal Family (i.e. Prince Nicholas and any children he may have) to live in Elisabeta Palace, as obviously the Crown Princess and her husband will be long dead by then. Therefore, this particular portion of the law does seem particularly well-suited to providing the Romanian royals with a base in Bucharest for the next century, and it is difficult to understand why monarchists would oppose such a possibility. Otherwise, the Royal House would be confined to living on their properties outside of the capital, away from the centre of national life.
No niece or nephew of the Princess live in Romania so the only persons that benefit from this controversial project of law are Princess Margareta and her husband, Princess Maria ( and her husband if she marries again).
The monarchists support the Monarchy not persons that want republican compromises (and want to change the "Royal House" into a sort of NGO controlled by republican authorities).
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  #1160  
Old 07-04-2016, 06:01 AM
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[...] The King's Family has a lot of properties and can organize itself very well because of those properties. [...]
The King's family may have properties but I doubt they can finance a proper royal organization. The King, the Queen, Princess Margareta and Mr Duda, their living expenditures, the maintenance of the properties, the payment of the employers. A royal lifestyle is expensive.

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[...] It is unacceptable in a republic the taxpayers money many have to be spent both for the republican institutions and for the "Royal House". [...]
That is your personal opinion. If the Republic Romania wants to make this arrangement, they are free to do so. Note that the Romanian Parliament decides on this. I have given examples of other republics which have arrangements with their former royal families as well, because they want to settle things in a dignified and prudent manner. Nothing wrong with that. Better a neat arrangement than to vegetate away in a forgotten exile and sell the table silver to make a living.
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