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  #1121  
Old 07-01-2016, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
Where it speaks about the form of government.
Instead of advocating to cancel from the Constitution the prohibition to revise the form of government, now Elisabeta Palace would accept a law that clearly speak about not changing the republican form of government.
This law is not meant to restore the monarchy, it is meant to outlay how the Royal Family is to be assisted by the state, how it is to be organized etc. It does not in any way speak about not restoring the monarchy, but as several monarchical organizations have made clear, it creates a very good platform from which the Royal Family can function, and through their work, spread the message of monarchy in Romania.

The monarchy won't return by zealotry and force, it will return by hard and focused work by the Royal Family, support from politicians and more attention to its strengths.

If some believe in doing it differently, go down that road and see where it leads. I recommend starting with a formal letter to the Hohenzollerns, asking them about restoring the line of succession from 1923.

There's no need to wait for the death of the King, as some have claimed before. He has abdicated his titular claim in favour of his daughter. She is the claimant now.

Ask them.
I for one can't wait for the answer.
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  #1122  
Old 07-01-2016, 07:40 PM
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The King,even if represented by his eldest daughter at different events, is still the King.
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  #1123  
Old 07-01-2016, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
Where it speaks about the form of government.
Instead of advocating to cancel from the Constitution the prohibition to revise the form of government, now Elisabeta Palace would accept a law that clearly speak about not changing the republican form of government.
All the law says is that the law itself isn't intended to be a change in the Constitution.

That should be fine; that's just a lawyer's words and just mean, "this is a regular law; it's not a Constitutional amendment".

The law is silent about future Constitutional changes, which could happen.

It's also fine for Parliament to approve a line of succession; that is normal in European monarchies. If the government decides that a benefit (i.e., official recognition of the Royal House) is being given, it has the right to decide who is part of the Royal House and thus entitled to the benefit.

Again, if this law doesn't pass, King Michael's family will just be regular commoners, like the rest of us, and the people who dispute the validity of the republic will continue to sound crazy. It's important to deal with reality as it is if you want to change it.
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  #1124  
Old 07-02-2016, 03:39 AM
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In the constitutional Monarchy it is the Parliament who decides on the Royal House including Succession. Romania is a republic and not a constitutional Monarchy.
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  #1125  
Old 07-02-2016, 07:20 AM
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Cory, in a democracy where the rule of law exists, a legislature can decide who is entitled to the benefits of laws that it passes. Montenegro, Germany and plenty of other countries are republics where governments have passed laws giving benefits to royal families, and legislatures there have decided who is entitled to those benefits.

Is Romania not a democracy where the rule of law exists?

Again, questioning the legitimacy of the republic is not a pragmatic approach and does more harm than good: it makes the questioner sound crazy.
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  #1126  
Old 07-02-2016, 08:56 AM
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One thing is to give a compensation to a former reigning House and completely a different issue to recognize who is the Head of that House. A republic can't decide on that.
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  #1127  
Old 07-02-2016, 09:41 AM
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Maybe mine is a silly question, but where exactly is written in the proposed law that it is the republican authorities to decide who is the head of the Royal Family? And exactly in which terms is it written?
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  #1128  
Old 07-02-2016, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
Maybe mine is a silly question, but where exactly is written in the proposed law that it is the republican authorities to decide who is the head of the Royal Family? And exactly in which terms is it written?
It naturally doesn't say that the Republic has decided who the head of the Royal Family is. It recognizes the choice the King has made, in naming his eldest daughter his heir, so it recognizes the will of the King, and does not on its own, make a decision. It mainly recognizes the Royal House as an actual entity, but it does not deny the Royal House its own sovereign role when it comes to changing the leader of the Royal House at a later stage, or implement other changes.

Casa Regală redevine instituČ›ie fundamentală a statului romĆ¢n | Romania Libera

This text explains the background for the law very well, described by lawyers as a very good step to give the Royal Family a much clearer status as a legal entity and not just an idealistic, utopian entity, and describes the fears described by some monarchists as ridiculous fallacies and scaremongering.

The translation of this text in google translate is actually very good and accurate, so anyone who wants more unbiased information about this law proposal and do not read Romanian, can read it here:
https://translate.google.se/translat...659&edit-text=
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  #1129  
Old 07-02-2016, 11:16 AM
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That is also how I have understood it, that the succession to the Headship of the Royal Family will be regulated by a statute issued by the King and - to the purposes of the proposed law - the Head of the Royal Family will be the person designated by that statute.
So, no power granted to the Republic to decide who the Head of the Royal Family is and will be.
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  #1130  
Old 07-02-2016, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
That is also how I have understood it, that the succession to the Headship of the Royal Family will be regulated by a statute issued by the King and - to the purposes of the proposed law - the Head of the Royal Family will be the person designated by that statute.
So, no power granted to the Republic to decide who the Head of the Royal Family is and will be.
The project speaks about the recognition of the "Head of the Royal House" by the two Chambers of the Parliament. Of course this is a not very subtle way by a republican parliament to try to establish a new Line of Succession in contradiction to the constitutional traditions of the Kingdom of Romania.
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  #1131  
Old 07-03-2016, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
The project speaks about the recognition of the "Head of the Royal House" by the two Chambers of the Parliament. Of course this is a not very subtle way by a republican parliament to try to establish a new Line of Succession in contradiction to the constitutional traditions of the Kingdom of Romania.
The law, which is not a project, but a law to ensure the Royal House of Romania has certain rights and roles forward, quite naturally recognizes the Head of the Royal House of Romania to be the person designated by the King. It would be a rather absurd situation if parliament did anything else.
As there is no current talk about restoring the monarchy fully in Romania, to speculate on a line of succession is not within the scope of the law, but as it recognizes the Royal House as an entity and the leader as Crown Princess Margareta, that is a statement in itself.
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  #1132  
Old 07-03-2016, 08:05 AM
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This is a project of law which has not arrived to the Parliament yet but there is a public debate about it. It could become law only if voted by the Parliament and promulgated by the president. Let's hope that the public pressure will stop this republican project of ever becoming a law.
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  #1133  
Old 07-03-2016, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
This is a project of law which has not arrived to the Parliament yet but there is a public debate about it. It could become law only if voted by the Parliament and promulgated by the president. Let's hope that the public pressure will stop this republican project of ever becoming a law.
Let's hope public support for the Royal Family and the monarchy ensures that the law will pass, the Royal Family will receive some of the support and organization that reigning royal families in other countries get and that it leads to an eventual full restoration.
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  #1134  
Old 07-03-2016, 10:24 AM
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Is there much general public interest in this proposed law and has there been much on the television news or debate in current affair's programmes?
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  #1135  
Old 07-03-2016, 12:11 PM
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There are different articles in the press very much against the project.At the TV less than in the newspapers.
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  #1136  
Old 07-03-2016, 01:42 PM
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There are many articles, groupings of monarchists and intellectuals that support it, many of the links I've previously posted. It's been reported well on the news, and it's rather interesting to see politicians supporting a process that was unexpected just a year or two ago.
http://www.secundatv.ro/actualitate/...at-35045.html/ (law text can be found a bit down on this link)
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  #1137  
Old 07-03-2016, 02:31 PM
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The credibility of many Romanian politicians is very low and the fact the friends of a certain family supports this project is understandable but we do not speak about monarchists.

Mrs Marilena Rotaru: "Instituționalizarea Case Regale īnseamnă supunerea Coroanei pe un loc inferior Casei regale. Mulți sunt foarte entuziaști, spun că acesta este primul pas, dar de fapt este ultimul pas, īnchide orice posibilitate viitoare a Casei Regale. Mă sperie această lege pentru că ea va īnchide oportunitatea reinstaurării Monarhiei īn Romānia. E cineva care vrea să īnchidă subiectul. Dacă se adoptă acest proiect, se anulează orice șansă de revenire la Monarhie. " ( "The institututionalisation of the royal House means the putting of the Crown on an inferior place to the Royal House. Many are enthusiastic, they say this is the first step, but in fact this is the last one and closes anyfuture possibility for the Royal House. I am scared of this law because it will close the opportunity of the restoration of Monarchy in Romania. There is somebody who wants to close this subject. If this project becomes reality any chance for the restoration is annuled.")

Marilena Rotaru: InstituČ›ionalizarea Casei Regale anulează orice Č™ansă de revenire la Monarhie | REALITATEA .NET



Regarding the restoration of Monarchy Mrs Marilena Rotaru told about an event that could explan a certain attitude:""Am fost chemată de un īnalt membru al staff-ului regal și mi s-au spus aceste cuvinte: Ne-ați făcut mult bine, dar acum ne faceți mult rău. Sunteți considerată portavocea Casei Regale, ceea ce nu era adevărat, nu vedeți de ce respect se bucură Casa Regală acum? că s-au retrocedat Peleșul și alte proprietăți... Totul era superb, era ca și cum ne aflam deja īntr-o monarhie. Mi s-a spus textual: "Nici acum, nici peste 20 de ani, nici peste 50 de ani, Romānia nu va fi monarhie" Erau recomandări venite din interiorul Casei Regale să nu mai facem īntruniri. Noi am făcut un draft de Constituție monarhistă și am trimis-o Casei Regale, și ni s-a psus Nu, nici vorbă, īn constituția actuală trebuie trecut rolul Casei Regale și atāt" (" I was called by a very important member of the royal staff and I was told these words: You did a lot of good to us but now you do a lot of harm. You are considered the voice of the royal House, which was not true, don't you see how much the royal House is respcted now? Peles was given back and other properties... everything was wonderful, it was as if we were in a Monarchy. I was told exacltly@ " ot now, not even in 20 years, not even in 50 years, Romania won't be a Monarchy". There were advises from inside the Royal House not to have meetings anymore. We made a draft of a monarchist constitution and we sent it to the Royal House and we were told : No, not al all, in the nowadays Constitution there must be the role of the Royal House and that's it").
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  #1138  
Old 07-03-2016, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
The credibility of many Romanian politicians is very low and the fact the friends of a certain family supports this project is understandable but we do not speak about monarchists.

Mrs Marilena Rotaru: "Instituționalizarea Case Regale īnseamnă supunerea Coroanei pe un loc inferior Casei regale. Mulți sunt foarte entuziaști, spun că acesta este primul pas, dar de fapt este ultimul pas, īnchide orice posibilitate viitoare a Casei Regale. Mă sperie această lege pentru că ea va īnchide oportunitatea reinstaurării Monarhiei īn Romānia. E cineva care vrea să īnchidă subiectul. Dacă se adoptă acest proiect, se anulează orice șansă de revenire la Monarhie. " ( "The institututionalisation of the royal House means the putting of the Crown on an inferior place to the Royal House. Many are enthusiastic, they say this is the first step, but in fact this is the last one and closes anyfuture possibility for the Royal House. I am scared of this law because it will close the opportunity of the restoration of Monarchy in Romania. There is somebody who wants to close this subject. If this project becomes reality any chance for the restoration is annuled.")

Marilena Rotaru: Instituționalizarea Casei Regale anulează orice șansă de revenire la Monarhie | REALITATEA .NET



Regarding the restoration of Monarchy Mrs Marilena Rotaru told about an event that could explan a certain attitude:""Am fost chemată de un īnalt membru al staff-ului regal și mi s-au spus aceste cuvinte: Ne-ați făcut mult bine, dar acum ne faceți mult rău. Sunteți considerată portavocea Casei Regale, ceea ce nu era adevărat, nu vedeți de ce respect se bucură Casa Regală acum? că s-au retrocedat Peleșul și alte proprietăți... Totul era superb, era ca și cum ne aflam deja īntr-o monarhie. Mi s-a spus textual: "Nici acum, nici peste 20 de ani, nici peste 50 de ani, Romānia nu va fi monarhie" Erau recomandări venite din interiorul Casei Regale să nu mai facem īntruniri. Noi am făcut un draft de Constituție monarhistă și am trimis-o Casei Regale, și ni s-a psus Nu, nici vorbă, īn constituția actuală trebuie trecut rolul Casei Regale și atāt" (" I was called by a very important member of the royal staff and I was told these words: You did a lot of good to us but now you do a lot of harm. You are considered the voice of the royal House, which was not true, don't you see how much the royal House is respcted now? Peles was given back and other properties... everything was wonderful, it was as if we were in a Monarchy. I was told exacltly@ " ot now, not even in 20 years, not even in 50 years, Romania won't be a Monarchy". There were advises from inside the Royal House not to have meetings anymore. We made a draft of a monarchist constitution and we sent it to the Royal House and we were told : No, not al all, in the nowadays Constitution there must be the role of the Royal House and that's it").
Seems to me that this one person has gotten more than enough attention in this thread, and to the outsider reader, it could appear as if she is far more important than she is. As has been shown in this thread many times, many monarchist organizations in Romania support the current cooperative attitude of the Royal House and the government, actually achieving results instead of arbitrarily debating outdated points with an expiration date decades ago.
The Royal Family and the government have found a good compromise to bring the current situation of the dynasty in Romania forward. There is no better way to draw attention to the Royal Family when it comes to monarchical aspirations. There is no better way of establishing clear roles and functions for the Royal House, an organization and funding to continue the dynasty after the King.
The law and the process around it is a good thing to have happen in Romania, for the Royal Family and the future of the monarchy most of all, and everyone who wants the monarchy to be restored. It shows that the Royal Family is back in Romania for good, and that they're here, to cooperate, to listen and to serve.
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  #1139  
Old 07-03-2016, 03:39 PM
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For the authentic Romanian monarchists ( but not only for them), Mrs Rotaru is a symbol not only because of her career but because of her support for the Monarchy from the beginning. The King has always appreciated her.
Regarding the attitude of the monarchists regarding the republican project of law both the Movement for Kingdom and Crown and the Monarchists Clubs (leaded by Dr. Marinca) strongly oppose this attempt to damage the cause of Monarchy.
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  #1140  
Old 07-03-2016, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
For the authentic Romanian monarchists ( but not only for them), Mrs Rotaru is a symbol not only because of her career but because of her support for the Monarchy from the beginning. The King has always appreciated her.
Regarding the attitude of the monarchists regarding the republican project of law both the Movement for Kingdom and Crown and the Monarchists Clubs (leaded by Dr. Marinca) strongly oppose this attempt to damage the cause of Monarchy.
And you keep on professing false truths, as this law does not deny a restoration, nor do any damage to the institution of monarchy, which today does not exist in Romania, but is a wish of some and a working goal of the Royal Family.
No monarchy will be restored in Europe without the cooperation of the democratic government in the respective countries, and Romania is about to take a leap forward in both practical and principled terms.
To some, that's clearly upsetting, but the majority of people in Romania support the Royal Family or do not have an opinion of them, whereas a very small minority revisit female succession issues, issues around government, corruption and every other favourite issue they can rehash to sabotage a cause.

Someone once said, 'the greatest enemy a monarchy has is its supporters'.
I can't remember who, but how very apt it is.
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