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  #1081  
Old 06-27-2016, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Benjamin View Post
It seems like some posters live in an alternate universe.

Is Crown Princess Margarita of Romania a Romanian citizen? Yes.
Is the Prince of Hohenzollern a Romanian citizen? No, he's German.

Did Crown Princess Margarita of Romania return to Romania as soon as possible after the fall of Communism? Yes.
Did the Prince of Hohenzollern return to Romania as soon as possible after the fall of the Communists? No, he's never even been to Romania.

Has Crown Princess Margarita of Romania lived in Romania for nearly twenty years? Yes.
Has the Prince of Hohenzollern lived in Romania for nearly twenty years? No, because he would have to visit there first.

Did Crown Princess Margarita of Romania establish a foundation to combat the many societal ills that she was struck by when she came to Romania in the 1990s? Yes.
Did the Prince of Hohenzollern establish a foundation to combat the many societal ills that he was struck by when he came to Romania in the 1990s? Um, no, because he has zero interest in the country or its citizens.

Has Crown Princess Margarita of Romania been personally responsible for raising millions of euros for the amelioration of the conditions of the people of Romania? Yes.
Has the Prince of Hohenzollern been personally responsible for raising millions of euros for the amelioration of the conditions of the people of Romania? Nope.

Etc., etc., etc.
Just some of the many, many, many comparisons one can draw, and it does not serve to the detriment of the Hohenzollerns, who do very good work with their properties and projects of both a current and historic nature, at all.
I think we could safely add the one that clinches it all for me:
Has Crown Princess Margareta declared that the Royal Family is in Romania to serve in whatever capacity the people want them to? Yes, on several occasions, lastly when she was asked the question of restoration directly on tv last Winter.
Has the Prince of Hohenzollern declared that the Princely Family is in Romania to serve in whatever capacity the people want them to? No. The current reigning Prince has never set foot in Romania. His Father declared before his death that his family and he himself had no interest in the Romanian throne.

What more does it take? Current succession might not be optimal, but it's a start. Let's take it from there.
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  #1082  
Old 06-27-2016, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Romania was only a monarchy from 1881 until 1947. That is 66 years. The exile of former King Michael (1947 until present) is longer than the whole Royal House ever reigned in Romania!

It is a miracle that the Romanian state is so well-willing towards a Royal House which only was a short intermezzo in the long history of their country!
It is only one purpose: to close one for all the question of Monarchy.
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  #1083  
Old 06-27-2016, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Benjamin View Post
It seems like some posters live in an alternate universe.

Is Crown Princess Margarita of Romania a Romanian citizen? Yes.
Is the Prince of Hohenzollern a Romanian citizen? No, he's German.

Did Crown Princess Margarita of Romania return to Romania as soon as possible after the fall of Communism? Yes.
Did the Prince of Hohenzollern return to Romania as soon as possible after the fall of the Communists? No, he's never even been to Romania.

Has Crown Princess Margarita of Romania lived in Romania for nearly twenty years? Yes.
Has the Prince of Hohenzollern lived in Romania for nearly twenty years? No, because he would have to visit there first.

Did Crown Princess Margarita of Romania establish a foundation to combat the many societal ills that she was struck by when she came to Romania in the 1990s? Yes.
Did the Prince of Hohenzollern establish a foundation to combat the many societal ills that he was struck by when he came to Romania in the 1990s? Um, no, because he has zero interest in the country or its citizens.

Has Crown Princess Margarita of Romania been personally responsible for raising millions of euros for the amelioration of the conditions of the people of Romania? Yes.
Has the Prince of Hohenzollern been personally responsible for raising millions of euros for the amelioration of the conditions of the people of Romania? Nope.

Etc., etc., etc.
At least the Hohenzollerns do not speak Romanian but do not pretend to be Romanians. The eldest daughter of the King speak Romanian but nit very well while her sisters hardly speak the language even if their father was the King of Romania. I ignore hiw many of the descendants of the King have Romanian citizenship but probably the majority don't.
Of course Romanians do not want that a couple of private citizens have money from the state when they can support themselves very well.
Any person who has a respect for Monarchy and wants it really restore in Romania could be only appaled of the new compromise this couple want to do.
As for the Hohenzollerns it is not true they have never visited the country but they visited it in a very discreet way. Some of the monarchists' discuss a lot these days the importance of the Hohenzollern Line but we have to see if they will publicly ask the Hohenzollerns to assume their rightful dynastic rights.
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  #1084  
Old 06-27-2016, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Romania was only a monarchy from 1881 until 1947. That is 66 years. The exile of former King Michael (1947 until present) is longer than the whole Royal House ever reigned in Romania!
King Carol I. was Prince of Roman since 1866 and became King in 1881. So Romania was a Monarchy from 1866-1947.
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  #1085  
Old 06-27-2016, 05:01 PM
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Romania was a constitutional Monarchy from 1866 to 1947 but Romanians have always had Monarchy sonce the Middle Ages. There is no republucan tradition in the Romanian history.
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  #1086  
Old 06-29-2016, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
At least the Hohenzollerns do not speak Romanian but do not pretend to be Romanians. The eldest daughter of the King speak Romanian but nit very well while her sisters hardly speak the language even if their father was the King of Romania. I ignore hiw many of the descendants of the King have Romanian citizenship but probably the majority don't.
Of course Romanians do not want that a couple of private citizens have money from the state when they can support themselves very well.
Any person who has a respect for Monarchy and wants it really restore in Romania could be only appaled of the new compromise this couple want to do.
As for the Hohenzollerns it is not true they have never visited the country but they visited it in a very discreet way. Some of the monarchists' discuss a lot these days the importance of the Hohenzollern Line but we have to see if they will publicly ask the Hohenzollerns to assume their rightful dynastic rights.
This is an elitist and snobby argument, used against someone who does their best at speaking a language they did not grow up with. Many royal families speak French, English or German in private, and do not use the language of the country they rule over, such as the Danish and Swedish royal families, who mainly use French.
Many former royal families, such as the Romanian, have used French as well in exile, for natural reasons, as they resided in French-speaking countries. When they're allowed home at an adult age to a country they have not used the language of, and still command it without any problems, nobody serious cares if they have an accent or make a mistake from time to time.
Queen Maxima is loved by the Dutch I know for her accent. The Swedes sometimes make a passing comment about the Queens Swedish, but I have never heard her mocked or the language pointed out without it being followed by nice things said about her work, person or role.

To be abusive and to ridicule people who try and do a job, just because you want to revisit the old issue that some monarchists have tried since the King returned to Romania, about his succession and their opposition to females, we should remember the words of the King and his making it clear that as a European nation, a signatory to the convention on human rights and equal rights for women being the norm across the continent, this battle is over.
The Crown Princess is the heir of the King, she is accepted as such by those who know about the monarchy, by the media, the politicians and the elite, and those select few who keep revisiting the issue that you're constantly bringing up on these threads, just serve as a reminder of how fast a monarchical campaign can become a farce, if it doesn't stay in touch with what people want and can accept, what is logical and legal, what is possible and doable and what is remotely achievable.

To rehash the same issue based on a few, detached people not accepting that time has not stood still since 1923, is counter-productive and serves not to inform, but to sabotage an issue that could and would be good for Romanians; the monarchy returning to Romania.

Until that day comes, the monarchy is well represented by the Royal Family, who are working diligently and hard to safeguard the interests of people, alongside those who are now in charge of Romania. It's the only way to reasonably work towards a change.
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  #1087  
Old 06-29-2016, 08:58 AM
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It is quite clear the King's elsest daughter is not advocating for the restoration of Monarchy and that's even more obvious after accepting the last project of law. She is often critisized for her Romanian language by very many Romanians. If you consider yourself Romanian you speak the language. Marina Sturdza for example was raised in exile but she speaks a very good Romanian.
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  #1088  
Old 06-29-2016, 09:41 AM
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What language do the King and Queen speak together, and what language do the Princesses speak when together? I assume English or French? Does anyone in the Royal Family speak German?
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  #1089  
Old 06-29-2016, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
If you consider yourself Romanian you speak the language. .
Crown Princess Margareta speaks Romanian, in a slower speed and without any disruptive problems at all.

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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
It is quite clear the King's elsest daughter is not advocating for the restoration of Monarchy and that's even more obvious after accepting the last project of law.
That is your view, and not a fact. In fact, as is evident by a majority of politicians in a republic actually supporting this kind of transfer of power, tasks, property and funds to a Royal Family, she is indeed the Custodian of the Crown of Romania, and she serves the interests of the monarchy quite well.
If the Royal Family had declared against the government and entertained a situation of open hostility towards politicians and the system, they would have achieved nothing and restoration of the monarchy and royal functions in Romania would had been a far-fetched dream that would had died with the King someday.
That is not productive, useful or serving any cause.

If you want to be a leader, you have to have followers and supporters. The Crown Princess now has the choice of working with those who can effectively help change the system, the people and the politicians, or she can choose to go with zealots and fanatics who do not support her claim to the throne anyway.
Why on Earth would she choose the latter?
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  #1090  
Old 06-29-2016, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by CSENYC View Post
What language do the King and Queen speak together, and what language do the Princesses speak when together? I assume English or French? Does anyone in the Royal Family speak German?
I believe the King and Queen, as well as the Crown Princessly couple, have conversational skills in German, but their main languages are French and Romanian, interspersed with English when needed.
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  #1091  
Old 06-29-2016, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
It is quite clear the King's elsest daughter is not advocating for the restoration of Monarchy and that's even more obvious after accepting the last project of law. [...]
Maybe because she is a realist?
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  #1092  
Old 06-29-2016, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by CSENYC View Post
What language do the King and Queen speak together, and what language do the Princesses speak when together? I assume English or French? Does anyone in the Royal Family speak German?
Mainly French and English. I do not suppose any of them speak German and the majority of the members of the Family do not speak Romanian either.
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  #1093  
Old 06-29-2016, 11:35 AM
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Maybe because she is a realist?
Maybe because she is surrounded by people that do not want to change the republican status quo.
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  #1094  
Old 06-29-2016, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
King Carol I. was Prince of Roman since 1866 and became King in 1881. So Romania was a Monarchy from 1866-1947.
And his predecessor was Alexandru Ioan Cuza, Prince of Romania from 1859-1866.

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[...] such as the Danish and Swedish royal families, who mainly use French.
I cannot comment on the Danes, but I am not aware that the Swedish royal family uses French in private. Do you remember where you read this?
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  #1095  
Old 06-29-2016, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
I cannot comment on the Danes, but I am not aware that the Swedish royal family uses French in private. Do you remember where you read this?
I didn't.

When it comes to restoring the monarchy in Romania, there are two choices and two possible ways of going about it.
1) The Royal Family, with the King at its apex, forms the basis of a restored and continued reigning dynasty, with historical links through the King and his predecessors. If the Royal Family is to return to the throne, it will be either via female succession of his eldest daughter, of whom he has five, or it will bypass his daughter, to go to the first eligible male, his grandson Nicholas. A male heir will settle the nerves of those who are nervous about female succession, but those with such problems need to get over them, as female succession is today as normal and acceptable to a population as other, formerly controversial societal changes are becoming.
2) A member of the House of Hohenzollern, that once provided the basis for the current Royal Family, and who could again be asked to do the same.

When it comes to 1), what speaks for it, is their presence in Romania today, as opposed to 2). They represent the King, the last monarch of Romania, as opposed to 2). They're engaged in Romanian society and have connections in every area vital to anyone with aspirations on behalf of the monarchy, which requires a systemic change, as opposed to 2). They have declared their interest in serving Romania as the people would want them to, as opposed to 2), who have declared that they are not interested in the Romanian throne.

When it comes to 2), what speaks for it, is that some see them as the legal heirs to the Romanian throne through the last constitution involving the monarchy of 1923, despite it being abolished 69 years ago. They do however represent the family that the Kings grandparents stem from, despite 1) still having the same heritage, despite not using a foreign princely title anymore. 2) has never objected or protested the suggested changes by the King to the line of succession, should the monarchy be restored, that proposes that 1) continues to reign as the Royal Family of Romania in the event of a restoration, and that fundamental and universally approved principles across Europe about human rights are implemented.

At no point has 1) demanded the restoration of the monarchy in Romania under a female ruler, but the King has made it clear that his family will not reign again, under what is now seen as rules and restrictions that are out of date and not in keeping with monarchy or society in a Western nation.
At no point has 1) stated that they are entering into an arrangement with the government to avoid restoring the monarchy.
At no point has 1) withdrawn from Romania voluntarily. The King was exiled, and since the return of 1) after the fall of communism, the Royal Family has actively worked charitably and in areas they have been able to, to the benefit of Romanians.
At no point has 2) made any public statement or in other ways made clear their disapproval of the actions of the King with regards to succession, transfer of power to the Crown Princess, designation of titles in Romania and so forth.
At no point has 2) ever publicly demanded a return to the monarchy in Romania, and at no point have they sought to collude with those who today claim the illegitimacy of the Royal Family continuing after the King.
At no point has 2) in any way supported those who are actively working to displace the Royal Family when it comes to the future of the monarchy in Romania.

The Romanian Royal Family is aware that no monarchy today in Europe, can exist without cooperation with politicians and civic society. They have cleverly sought to build friendships and relations with those who are today in positions of influence and power, knowing full well that nothing, absolutely nothing will come of making enemies out of those who can help you achieve your goal. The Royal Family is fully aware that in every society there are people who oppose your actions, and within every community, there are those who disagree with your choices.

The only thing that puzzles me, is why some spend so much energy sabotaging the only ones, the only ones who are actively working towards a future for the monarchy in Romania, the Royal Family and the Custodian.
Fortunately, the politicians in Romania are far more respectful than some who claim to support the cause, and they are far more appreciative and attentive to what goes on in their own society than those who actively hanker for days that are so long gone by that they will never return.

It is clear from every piece of factual and anecdotal evidence up to this point, that there is just one way forward for the monarchy in Romania, and that is through those who represent it every day, actively, in their own country, like it or not.

As nobody would had predicted the current changes taking place just a short while ago, it will be interesting to see what comes next. I am certainly very hopeful!
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  #1096  
Old 06-29-2016, 05:09 PM
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And his predecessor was Alexandru Ioan Cuza, Prince of Romania from 1859-1866.



I cannot comment on the Danes, but I am not aware that the Swedish royal family uses French in private. Do you remember where you read this?
Alexandru Ioan Cuza was an elected Prince who just prepared the Throne for the Constitutional Mobarchy with foreign Sovereign.
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  #1097  
Old 06-30-2016, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
It is quite clear the King's elsest daughter is not advocating for the restoration of Monarchy and that's even more obvious after accepting the last project of law. She is often critisized for her Romanian language by very many Romanians. If you consider yourself Romanian you speak the language. Marina Sturdza for example was raised in exile but she speaks a very good Romanian.
I refer you to your recent trashing of the Princess and her ability to speak Romanian. I suppose her language skills have deteriorated since you said they were quite good a few years ago?

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The decision could be linked to the importance of being Romanians because even today some argue the daughters of the King are not Romanians. The truth is that only Princess Margareta speaks a quite good Romanian.
A hallmark of the monarchy as a system, and a monarchist as a supporter, is that one is principled and able to see past a person and onto the institution as a greater arrangement. Only when one does that, will the things that are irrelevant to the ordinary person and voter, disappear from the minds of those who are more than averagely interested in the issue as well, and only then can the Royal Family, the supporters of the monarchy and citizens come together to change a system of governance to the benefit of all Romanians.

Until we are at that crossroads, we should refrain from attacking and denigrating the institution we're actually trying to restore, by trashing those who represent it in Romania today, the Royal Family. Anything else is just counter-productive and yields no results for anyone, except the republicans, who want nothing more than monarchists and supporters to tear each other apart, to ensure that the monarchy as an institution will never be restored in Romania.
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  #1098  
Old 06-30-2016, 06:00 PM
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If this law is passed the chances of the restoration are really diminished and the credibility of the King's Family not really great. Anyhow the Family does not really have younger generations envolved in what they do so the famous "Royal House" represents mostly only the interests of one couple and I certainly do not speak about the royal couple.
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  #1099  
Old 06-30-2016, 07:07 PM
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This is an elitist and snobby argument, used against someone who does their best at speaking a language they did not grow up with. Many royal families speak French, English or German in private, and do not use the language of the country they rule over, such as the Danish and Swedish royal families, who mainly use French.
The swedish royal family doesn't mainly use French. When king Carl Gustaf and queen Silvia made a state visit to France, the king spoke english and said that his french isn't very good. Queen Silvia spoke french with the press. I have never heard that Carl Philip, Madeleine, Daniel and Sofia can speak french. And queen Silvia has told in interviews that she has always spoken swedish with her children and the king.
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Old 06-30-2016, 07:38 PM
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The Pretender to the Throne of Romania must learn Romanian very well. If you do not soeak the language in almost a perfect way the majority would never support you.
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