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  #1021  
Old 06-24-2016, 01:30 PM
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Romania IS a poor Country.
In my Hôtel I gave 5 euros to my homemaid when I arrived , she was really So surprised and happy and I had very good work during my stay
All is so sheep and old people are really poor, I saw it during 14 days.
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  #1022  
Old 06-24-2016, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
Romania is not a poor country at all even if there are many issues with corruption.
With this compromise the King's Family puts an end to any future chances to reign and loses the support of many royalists. From now on this family does not represent a symbol but only a sad story.
The family of the King is known as the Royal Family, in Romania, as in every other monarchy or former monarchy in the world. No amount of inventing new terms or words will change that.
The royalists you claim will drop supporting the Royal Family and the cause of the monarchy because the Royal Family and the government are finding a working arrangement that benefits both, and in the end the people of Romania, are narrow-minded fools who would cut off their nose to spite their faces.
With that kind of attitude from those who claim to support a specific cause, you will never reach your goal. Without the will to compromise, to live in the actual words and find workable solutions on your way to an ultimate goal, you will never get anywhere.

Luckily, the Royal Family is far smarter than some people who claim to support the goal they are reaching for, and so they are taking clever steps on a ladder I hope leads to systemic change someday. But to continue to think that Romania will simply change from republic to monarchy one day because the Royal Family has sat in a castle and championed a cause for X amount of years, but not done anything practical for it, is beyond ignorant.

It will never happen that way, and if we exclude the ways of a revolution, this is the best way forward, and does not in any way hinder a monarchical restoration.

The ones representing 'a sad story' in this case are the ones who tout the path of obstruction and isolation, complaint and withdrawal, and it just reminds me of kids who sit down in anger because they don't get their will.

It's not how you achieve change, and it will never yield results.


The 10 Most Poverty Ridden Countries In Europe - TheRichest
http://www.richestlifestyle.com/poor...ies-in-europe/
http://www.techscio.com/the-poorest-country-in-europe/
On a sidenote, yes, Romania is one of the poorest countries in Europe. This is a factual thing that can easily be looked up, and doesn't really need to be debated in a restoration thread.
Being poor does not mean the country isn't beautiful, full of possibilities and wonderful people - It is all of those, but in terms of finances and resources, the country is, unfortunately, poor.
I'm slightly impressed that 3 of the countries with tough financial circumstances are or have found financial and practical solutions to integrate their Royal Families into their political systems, Romania, Montenegro and Serbia. If and when one of them decides to take the next step and restore the monarchy altogether, the others will follow suit. That's just one of the reasons why this solution for the Romanian RF is a good one.
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  #1023  
Old 06-24-2016, 02:51 PM
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So the Royal Family will get its palaces, recurring payments from the government, presumably official royal titles back and presumably rights for descendants to inherit this arrangement, all with no real obligations.

I want that job. It seems better than actually reigning, doesn't it?

How different is it compared to the arrangements for the King of Sweden and the Emperor of Japan; they don't really do much of anything with day-to-day government, do they?
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  #1024  
Old 06-24-2016, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by CSENYC View Post
So the Royal Family will get its palaces, recurring payments from the government, presumably official royal titles back and presumably rights for descendants to inherit this arrangement, all with no real obligations.

I want that job. It seems better than actually reigning, doesn't it?

How different is it compared to the arrangements for the King of Sweden and the Emperor of Japan; they don't really do much of anything with day-to-day government, do they?
They have all this but the law explicitly says there will be no change of the form of government. So the republic wins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRohan View Post
The family of the King is known as the Royal Family, in Romania, as in every other monarchy or former monarchy in the world. No amount of inventing new terms or words will change that.
In no country the descendants with no dynastic right are called Royal Family but only King's Family.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
Romania IS a poor Country.
In my Hôtel I gave 5 euros to my homemaid when I arrived , she was really So surprised and happy and I had very good work during my stay
All is so sheep and old people are really poor, I saw it during 14 days.
The country has a lot of richness but also a lot of corruption.
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  #1025  
Old 06-24-2016, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
In no country the descendants with no dynastic right are called Royal Family but only King's Family.
So the Serbian Royal Family is non-existent, but Crown Prince Alexander is 'the King's son'? Crown Prince Nikola of Montenegro is not head of the Montenegrin Royal Family, but his 'grandfathers grandson'?

What do you draw these claims of yours from? Can you please put any facts behind your claim?
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  #1026  
Old 06-24-2016, 03:41 PM
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All the descendants of a King that DO NOT HAVE DYNASTIC RIGHTS can't be considered a Royal Family but only the King's Family. The descendants of King Mihai want probably a republican recognition but according to the royalist Constitutions they have no dynastic rights at all.
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  #1027  
Old 06-24-2016, 03:46 PM
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That is not how a Royal Family is defined, and this is where you are wrong in your claim. Princess Astrid of Norway is a member of the Norwegian Royal Family, but has no dynastic rights or succession right.
All the siblings of Princess Beatrix of the Netherlands are Princesses, without dynastic rights and no succession rights. They are nonetheless members of the Dutch Royal Family.

The head of a Royal House makes necessary changes to ensure the continuation of the dynasty when need be, and that the King, when he had 5 daughters and no sons, decided it was time to abolish salic law, under which no European monarchy acts exclusively anymore, is no surprise, nor is it illegal. The Kingdom of the Netherlands did the same when they had nothing but female heirs for generations, and to claim that a family is not a Royal Family because they're women, born royal Princesses to a Romanian King and Queen, formerly a French Princess, is just ridiculous, and part of your campaign to attack the Royal Family in every way and at every junction.

The fact that the Romanian government is about to recognize the Royal dynasty, its structure, titles etc., is more than one can actually reasonably expect from a republican government, and still they are doing just that. I guess that is behind this intensified campaign from a few people who do not see that the work they're doing is harming the cause they claim to support.
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  #1028  
Old 06-24-2016, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyRohan View Post
The fact that the Romanian government is about to recognize the Royal dynasty, its structure, titles etc., is more than one can actually reasonably expect from a republican government, and still they are doing just that.
I agree. Romania already has a head of state. There's no justifiable reason to have 2 (or at least to pay 2, and pay the expenses of 2, and give titles to 2), except out of goodwill towards the Royal Family. Royalists should jump at the chance for this.
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  #1029  
Old 06-24-2016, 05:22 PM
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Despite being a slightly American way of putting it, you're a bit right and a little bit 'off' :) Romania does have a head of state, but the last monarch, the King, is still alive and was, in an almost universally accepted view, dethroned and removed illegally, and the republic was not legitimately introduced to the country. When that is done, it is more apt to say that this process is a way to right a wrong, and to rectify as far as they can, without altering the governance of the country, what was done back then.
It isn't therefore something Romania does out of the goodness of their hearts, but a many-faceted act, and the health of the King and his age, the work done by the Crown Princess and the other active members of the Royal Family, the growing standing of the Royal Family in Romania etc. are all factors that contribute to what the government is choosing to do.

If the Royal Family wasn't content with the process, they would obviously not accept it, so clearly they are, and the ones grumbling and adding acid, would be doing the same no matter what was done in this situation. I am personally thrilled that Romania will join the ranks of Montenegro and Serbia, and embrace their history, their institutions and that the profile of the monarchy is lifted.
It will not be the final chapter in the story of Romania and the monarchy, most likely it's more of a beginning of a process, but even if it's not, it's a good thing for the Royal Family and for the country, who gets dedicated servants working for them as royalty does in monarchies around the world.
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  #1030  
Old 06-24-2016, 05:30 PM
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Returning to the subject of this thread which is the restoration of Monarchy it is important to notice the main toyalist Association is now the Movement for Kingdom and Crown and it seems this Association has now a dialogue with some of the royalist Clubs.
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  #1031  
Old 06-24-2016, 07:00 PM
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The monarchy will not be restored. You yourself have admitted that there is no desire in Romania to change the form of state. The former King is old and very frail. The former Queen is old and frail as well. The successor according the michaelist line has no offspring and is a big question mark after herself. The successor according the constitutional line is a German Fürst. Really, this generous show of goodwill by Romania is a rare opportunity and when Princess Margarita is wise, she will seize the momentum with both hands.

It is also possible that the "Custodian of the Crown" will declare the contitutional succession in force because Karina Medforth Mills and Elisabeth Biarneix probably do not desire any role. What will you say when suddenly the Hohenzollerns are the one to pick the fruits from this arrangement? Yes, I feel the Fürst von Hohenzollern should become the head of the House of Romania, but practice is different. When I was Princess Margarita, I would do the same. It is a fair settlement. The Greeks and the Savoias and the Habsburgers would have wished the same offer!
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  #1032  
Old 06-24-2016, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyRohan View Post
Despite being a slightly American way of putting it, you're a bit right and a little bit 'off' :) ..
You're exactly right. My point is that looking at this situation from an efficiency, cost, etc. perspective, it makes no sense whatsoever to already have a President and then add a King without power, but just another burden on taxpayers. That's why the Royal Family should jump at this: it's simply a gracious act by the government. It's only fair to do it, but there's no practical reason to do it.

I agree that this is not the last of the monarchy. Didn't Serbia rehabilitate its Royal Family, and support for the monarchy there has grown significantly? Or does the Romanian government know that the Custodian of the Crown and Prince Radu don't have children, so this will all be done once they're gone?
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  #1033  
Old 06-24-2016, 10:31 PM
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The interest of the very contested political class in Bucharest to close the chapter of the restoration of Monarchy and strenghten the republic.
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  #1034  
Old 06-25-2016, 03:04 AM
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I think that is a legitimate desire, backed by an overwhelming majority of the electorate, which has no hunger to swap the current republican form of state for a hereditary monarchy. What else are you expecting?

The State of Romania could have done nothing, towards the former royal family. Why should they? The old King and his spouse are in Switzerland. Almost all members of the former royal family do not live in Romania. The so-called "Custodian of the Crown" is a private family matter which could be ignored. The State of Romania however seems goodwilled and wants a proper and civil arrangement between the Republic and the former royal family. I applaud them for doing so.
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  #1035  
Old 06-25-2016, 06:11 AM
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Applauding the republican authorities for closing the chapter of the restoration of Monarchy?
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  #1036  
Old 06-25-2016, 06:26 AM
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Come on. What else do you expect? Romania is a republic. That is the situation. You yourself admitted on this very board that there is no desire in Romania to swap the republic for a hereditary monarchy.

The State of Romania, while not at all obliged to do, wants to make a civil and prudent agreement with the former royal family. Like so many other states have done. Open up your eyes, it is 2016. The monarchy will never be restored.
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  #1037  
Old 06-25-2016, 07:44 AM
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After the Brexit vote, even unlikely events are possible, but the monarchy will be restored only if a majority (or at least more than today) of Romanian voters want it restored.

I generally prefer constitutional monarchy with limited powers of the monarch, so I'd like it restored. So royalists and the Royal Family need to do more to convince more voters of the need for restoration.
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  #1038  
Old 06-25-2016, 10:17 AM
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What better to convince Romanians about the value of a monarchy than a proper working royal family, with sound organisation and transparent finances? I see opportunities in the offer by the State of Romania. There is no alternative. Being penniless, without organization and depending on thirds is no recipe for a sustainable future.
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  #1039  
Old 06-25-2016, 12:06 PM
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I agree with Duc et Pair.

In addition, look at the Royal Family: King Michael is a saint, and Crown Princess Margareta is wonderful, but look at the rest of them: I understand that Prince Radu is unpopular, the rest of them don't even bother living in Romania, and one has a criminal record. None of them have accomplished amazing things in the private sector or made a lot of money, compared to, for example, the Greek royal family, which would be a high-profile family even if it wasn't royal.

After King Michael is gone, the Royal Family would be on a fast path to irrelevance, as commoners, except for this sudden opportunity to be an official Royal Family again.
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  #1040  
Old 06-25-2016, 12:07 PM
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Come on. What else do you expect? Romania is a republic. That is the situation. You yourself admitted on this very board that there is no desire in Romania to swap the republic for a hereditary monarchy.

The State of Romania, while not at all obliged to do, wants to make a civil and prudent agreement with the former royal family. Like so many other states have done. Open up your eyes, it is 2016. The monarchy will never be restored.
How do you know the Monarchy will never be restored?
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