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  #1001  
Old 06-23-2016, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
Oh, yes, of course, I forgot that for some odd reason one day the Romanians should call the Prince of Hohenzollern to be their King, who will for sure out of nowhere leave his life in Germany to become King of the land where his great-great-uncle once reigned...

Anyway, if this is the premise and if the "descendants of the King" won't have any place in the future Romanian monarchy, why are the romanian royalist personalities worried that the compromise might cause some harm to the monarchy?
For the moment the mere idea of Monarchy seems to be compromised.
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  #1002  
Old 06-23-2016, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
It is a pity you do not read the comments of the Romanian royalists on what's going on.
For your informations: I did read them. I then expressed my doubts and personal opinion.
What I find a pity is that, apparently, I cannot get any response with factual contents by certain members who, supposedly, are more knowledgeable than me on the matter and "know the romanian realities".
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  #1003  
Old 06-23-2016, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Look at the former royal families in Germany: Hannover, Bavaria, Hohenzollern, Lippe, Württemberg, Hessen, Baden, Waldeck-Pyrmont, etc. All of them have made agreements with the state and with the various Bundesländer. For an example the State of Bavaria still pays an annual compensation to the Wittelsbachers, almost 100 years after the collapse of the monarchies. These former royal families still enjoy wealth, reside on their ancestral castled, are living from family assets and explore vast dominions: the former royal and aristocratic families are by far the biggest private landowners in Germany.

Before the current Romanian republic, the immensely royal and darkblue blooded Michael was an impoverished man, living with his equally immensely blueblooded Bourbon-Parma spouse out there in Switzerland, cut off from all and everything he once owned in Romania. In the current republic King Michael has been acknowledged by presidents, he has addressed the republican Parliament, the republican Government has returned properties and gave (and still give) assistance in finances, in staffing, in houding, in facilitating. They even allow Romanian military to have a ceremonial role connected with the former royal family. In fact a semi-formal position for the former Royal House woul be a great and symbolic recognition of the non-official coexistence sinct the fall oj Frauces u.
Have you read the project of law published today by the government?

Today the public debate about the so called "Law about the Royal House of Romania" could start. The government wants a public debate. The project has 5 chapters with more than 11 articles. It is debatable if such a law is constitutional or not. Some interesting facts of the law: clearly states there is no wish for the change of the form of government, the "Head of the Royal House" is recognized by the two Chambers of the republican government, there is a budget from the state, Elisabeta Palace remains to the state but is used by the "Royal House", the "Head of the Royal House" decides the Rules of the institution and the way the future Heads will be appointed, the "Head of the Royal House" writes a report to the Parliament about the activities of this institution.
The "Royal House" is sponsored financially by the republican state but is subordinated to the Parliament.
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  #1004  
Old 06-24-2016, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
The King has always wanted the restoration of the Monarchy and he has never spoken about the Royal House as an institution of the republican system.

That is a rather misleading statement since His Majesty did quite publicly support the presidential campaign of Prince Radu several years ago.
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  #1005  
Old 06-24-2016, 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
Today the public debate about the so called "Law about the Royal House of Romania" could start. The government wants a public debate. The project has 5 chapters with more than 11 articles. It is debatable if such a law is constitutional or not. Some interesting facts of the law: clearly states there is no wish for the change of the form of government, the "Head of the Royal House" is recognized by the two Chambers of the republican government, there is a budget from the state, Elisabeta Palace remains to the state but is used by the "Royal House", the "Head of the Royal House" decides the Rules of the institution and the way the future Heads will be appointed, the "Head of the Royal House" writes a report to the Parliament about the activities of this institution.
The "Royal House" is sponsored financially by the republican state but is subordinated to the Parliament.
If I was Princess Margarita, I would immediately accept the surprisingly generous offer of the Government. I can not imagine the Governments of France or Austria to be so forthcoming towards their former royal families. Imagine the uproar when President M. Hollande would offer the Château de Rambouillet or another residence at the disposal of Prince Henri d'Orléans, that the République would pay for an office, staffing and give a working budget. Really, Princess Margarita should sink on their bare knees for such a well-willing attitude by the Government of Romania and not listen to "royalists" chasing impossible dreams.
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  #1006  
Old 06-24-2016, 03:06 AM
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She can do what she wishes. Accepting such a deal means assurong she loses the support of many people.
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  #1007  
Old 06-24-2016, 03:23 AM
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Can you give insight in "many people" ? How many? Twenty? One hundred?
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  #1008  
Old 06-24-2016, 06:16 AM
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Looking at the reactions in the press, blogs, Facebook many people indeed. But she does not need support anymore from the royalists because she is supported now by the republic. And the question of a future restoration of Monarchy has certainly nothing to do with her anymore.
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  #1009  
Old 06-24-2016, 06:27 AM
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What will be your attitude when suddenly Karina de Roumanie-Medforth Mills engages with the Erbprinz von Hohenzollern? Is it then okay that the new princely couple enjoys financial, organisatoric and facilitary support from the State of Romania, or not?
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  #1010  
Old 06-24-2016, 06:34 AM
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Cory ,Are Press,blogs and Facebook your sources ?
I was there 2 Weeks and spoke with a lot of Romanian people .
They all said it is too early for that !
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  #1011  
Old 06-24-2016, 06:41 AM
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Too early for what? Restoration?
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  #1012  
Old 06-24-2016, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
What will be your attitude when suddenly Karina de Roumanie-Medforth Mills engages with the Erbprinz von Hohenzollern? Is it then okay that the new princely couple enjoys financial, organisatoric and facilitary support from the State of Romania, or not?
The Royal Family can't be subordinated to the republican authorities and the Royal House can't be like an association paid by the republican regime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Too early for what? Restoration?
It is certainly too early for a restoration of Monarchy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
Cory ,Are Press,blogs and Facebook your sources ?
I was there 2 Weeks and spoke with a lot of Romanian people .
They all said it is too early for that !
I spoke with many Romanians in the last few days about this "project" wanted by Elisabeta Palace and the majority were not only dissapointed but even scandalized by it.
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  #1013  
Old 06-24-2016, 07:02 AM
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Duke , too early for a Restauration of the Monarchy!
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  #1014  
Old 06-24-2016, 07:27 AM
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But finally the royalist understood to whom they can count for a restoration campaign.
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  #1015  
Old 06-24-2016, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
The Royal Family can't be subordinated to the republican authorities and the Royal House can't be like an association paid by the republican regime.
I have difficulties understanding you. The Spanish, Belgian or Dutch Kings are totally under control by their Government. Every hiccup must be covered by ministerial responsability. They are given a Budget which has been approved by an elected Parliament, their expenditures are assessed by an auditory office which reports to the Government. Their housing, their security, their transportation, their Household organization, their communucations department, everything is paid for or provided by the State.

Now the State of Romania thinks about a similar regulation, not because they have to do, but because of goodwill towards the former royal family. And then this is suddenly a problem because it is a "republican Government"? There is no any indication that Romanians want a monarchy. This is reality and it is -I have already said it- most generous indeed by the State of Romania because they do not need to be so forthcoming towards the former royal family.
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  #1016  
Old 06-24-2016, 10:24 AM
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You can't compare a REIGNING Royal House in a European CONSTITUTION MONARCHY with the King's Family in Romania that will become like an associatoon subordinated to the republican regime.
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  #1017  
Old 06-24-2016, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
I spoke with many Romanians in the last few days about this "project" wanted by Elisabeta Palace and the majority were not only dissapointed but even scandalized by it.
It is not a ''project'', it's a project. Just because you don't like it, does not make it legitimate.
To claim that you have spoken to many Romanians that have scandalized it, is as factually interesting as if I say I have recently done a survey among friends, family and others in Romania, and they ALL support this action from the government and the Royal House. How do I prove any basis for what I just said, and how interesting is such an unvalidated opinion?

If I, who believe a specific way and will influence those around me with my opinions through debates and discussions, ask my friends a specific question, most likely I will get majority support for my view. We influence those we talk to, and we tend to filter out those who disagree with us.
Just like you tend to filter out any critical question or feedback, Cory.
Just sayin'.

The arrangements planned between the government and the Royal House is an important step in a process of recognition in Romania. Romania is a republic today, but with a history as a monarchy and a Royal Family that wants to be part of the future of its country, it is both wise and expedient to find a functioning arrangement for the days to come.
Yes, you can spin that as the republic controlling the monarchy, making sure it can't be restored. If that's your view, go ahead, nobody can stop you.

Your argument can, however, be debunked, and just like Duc_et_Pair said, this is something that is quite common in former monarchies. A settlement is made, and in some cases, not in the former empires as much as some of the smaller, former kingdoms, the government and the Royal House finds a way to incorporate the Royal Family into public life, to take advantage of the position a dynasty has or can have in the nation and to make two systems function together.

Try to take comfort in this: This is not the final step in the saga of the Romanian monarchy. Just as this solution wasn't on the radar screens a few years ago, we don't know what will happen a few years from now. If the Royal Family plays its cards right, if the Romanian people get to know them more, appreciate them more, see them more out and about, doing specific tasks and roles, they might warm even more to the idea of the monarchy and ask for a restoration altogether at some stage.

If they do, your goal is achieved, as is mine, and Romania is a monarchy again.
If they don't, at least the Royal Family has a practical function in Romanian social and civic life, they are given a raison d'être closer to the role that noble families should have and they don't have to live in an existence where they do not know whether they are coming or going from one day to another.

I think it is very unfair to ask the dynasty to pass on a chance to mean something to the Romanian people, and to have more purpose in life, just so they can sit around and whine about not getting the ultimate restoration handed to them. This way they can go out and earn it, if that's what is to be down the line. If now, they get the next best thing, a meaningful life, closer to the goal than they have ever been since the abolition of the monarchy.
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  #1018  
Old 06-24-2016, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
The Royal Family can't be subordinated to the republican authorities and the Royal House can't be like an association paid by the republican regime.
This is just meaningless, in all fairness. The Serbian and Montenegrin Royal Families are paid for by the republican regimes. The German dynasties in various former duchies, kingdoms and countries are often receiving stipends and allowances from their republican, political counterparts, to do specific tasks or fill certain roles, even if their lands are not monarchies today.
The current monarchies across Europe get their money allotments from politicians, many of whom are republicans, but this is neither here, nor there. The most important point is, how do you drive the Royal Family forward to a meaningful place, and how do you preserve the goodwill of people and the stature of the Royal House?
The only way to do that with any meaning at all in a republic, is in conjunction with politicians. If you find a working solution that doesn't detract from the Royal Family or destabilize the country politically, there is nothing wrong with that. It doesn't ruin the greater cause, of one day wanting the monarchy restored.

You have to be realistic though. Just to sit around and whine, and hope that you get to final jeopardy without going through loops and hoops along the say seems about as productive to me as if I said I'm going to sit at home every day for the rest of my life, waiting for a specific, Australian actor to walk through my door and make my life awesome.
It probably won't happen that way, hence why I have to go to Hollywood myself, and find him.

Achieving a goal is a process. You have to actually take the steps to get there in the end. For the monarchy, this is one of them, and I actually agree with Duc, it's a fairly generous one as well.
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  #1019  
Old 06-24-2016, 12:20 PM
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Amen to that and we may again stress the remarkable goodwill and generosity by the State of Romania to be willing to provide financial, organisatoric and facilitary support to the former royal family. They have no any need to do so.

They could have ignored them from A to Z, like the Greek or the Italians did. It shows that Romania is a state which wants to settle things in an orderly manner, with respect for the historic and cultural importance of their former royal family.

Mind you, Romania, one the poorest states in Europe, they really have other priorities than supporting a former royal family. No matter I disapprove the michaelist changes in the succession, the way Romania treat their former royal family is civilized and dignified.
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  #1020  
Old 06-24-2016, 01:16 PM
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Romania is not a poor country at all even if there are many issues with corruption.
With this compromise the King's Family puts an end to any future chances to reign and loses the support of many royalists. From now on this family does not represent a symbol but only a sad story.
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