Restoration of the Monarchy in Romania

[LadyRohan]

It is quite clear the King's elsest daughter is not advocating for the restoration of Monarchy and that's even more obvious after accepting the last project of law. She is often critisized for her Romanian language by very many Romanians. If you consider yourself Romanian you speak the language. Marina Sturdza for example was raised in exile but she speaks a very good Romanian.

I refer you to your recent trashing of the Princess and her ability to speak Romanian. I suppose her language skills have deteriorated since you said they were quite good a few years ago?

The decision could be linked to the importance of being Romanians because even today some argue the daughters of the King are not Romanians. The truth is that only Princess Margareta speaks a quite good Romanian.

A hallmark of the monarchy as a system, and a monarchist as a supporter, is that one is principled and able to see past a person and onto the institution as a greater arrangement. Only when one does that, will the things that are irrelevant to the ordinary person and voter, disappear from the minds of those who are more than averagely interested in the issue as well, and only then can the Royal Family, the supporters of the monarchy and citizens come together to change a system of governance to the benefit of all Romanians.

Until we are at that crossroads, we should refrain from attacking and denigrating the institution we're actually trying to restore, by trashing those who represent it in Romania today, the Royal Family. Anything else is just counter-productive and yields no results for anyone, except the republicans, who want nothing more than monarchists and supporters to tear each other apart, to ensure that the monarchy as an institution will never be restored in Romania.

 

[Cory]

If this law is passed the chances of the restoration are really diminished and the credibility of the King's Family not really great. Anyhow the Family does not really have younger generations envolved in what they do so the famous "Royal House" represents mostly only the interests of one couple and I certainly do not speak about the royal couple.

 

[LadyFinn]

This is an elitist and snobby argument, used against someone who does their best at speaking a language they did not grow up with. Many royal families speak French, English or German in private, and do not use the language of the country they rule over, such as the Danish and Swedish royal families, who mainly use French.

The swedish royal family doesn't mainly use French. When king Carl Gustaf and queen Silvia made a state visit to France, the king spoke english and said that his french isn't very good. Queen Silvia spoke french with the press. I have never heard that Carl Philip, Madeleine, Daniel and Sofia can speak french. And queen Silvia has told in interviews that she has always spoken swedish with her children and the king.

 

[Cory]

The Pretender to the Throne of Romania must learn Romanian very well. If you do not soeak the language in almost a perfect way the majority would never support you.

 

[LadyRohan]

The Pretender to the Throne of Romania must learn Romanian very well. If you do not soeak the language in almost a perfect way the majority would never support you.

I agree, although the word perfect indicates, again, a subjective opinion and not a fact.

So apparently, do you.

The truth is that only Princess Margareta speaks a quite good Romanian.

 

[CSENYC]

Cory, (1) exactly what do "the royalists" want and (2) how do they propose to accomplish what they want if this law restoring an official role for the Royal Family does not happen?

 

[Cory]

The monarchusts of the Movement for Kingdom and Crown and those of the different Monarchists Clubs are against this project of law that eould change the King's Family in a reality subordinated to the republic agreeing with a law that explicitly says the question of the change if the firm of government is not intended.
These monarchists ask for the restoration of Monarchy with a Constitutional Assembly.

 

[CSENYC]

OK, and how do they propose to make a restoration of monarchy with a Constitutional Assembly happen? Why do they think that it is possible or likely?

 

[Cory]

The polls show us that in the last 26 years there is a clear stronger support for Monarchy ( from less than 10% in 1990 to 30% now). There are a lot of people who are not against but not yet convinced. The Monarchist Clubs, whose most important leader is Dr. Marinca, are quite succesful and they are organized both in the country and in the diaspora and now they cooperate with the Movement for Kingdom and Crown whose most important leader is Mrs Marilena Rotaru. Of course there is much more campaign to do but the public opinion is not generally against Monarchy.

 

[LadyRohan]

The polls show us that in the last 26 years there is a clear stronger support for Monarchy ( from less than 10% in 1990 to 30% now). There are a lot of people who are not against but not yet convinced. The Monarchist Clubs, whose most important leader is Dr. Marinca, are quite succesful and they are organized both in the country and in the diaspora and now they cooperate with the Movement for Kingdom and Crown whose most important leader is Mrs Marilena Rotaru. Of course there is much more campaign to do but the public opinion is not generally against Monarchy.

The approval rating of the King is in high 50s, and the Crown Princess has an approval rating in the 30s, while the monarchy has around 30% support, so to disregard the Royal Family and claim that they are irrelevant to the monarchical process is personal and not based on facts.
Any organization that supports the institution of monarchy, represented by the Royal Family, is a good thing, but like any group, must always avoid the appearance of both infighting and being practical when it comes to what can be achieved, and how.
The monarchy can be restored in Romania, that's evident from numbers and level of support. It can however not be done without the Royal Family, a solution to succession and a unified effort by everyone on the monarchical side.

 

[Cory]

The support for the King would be around 45-50% but this is not the case for his eldest daughter who does not have children.
The monarchists know very well the grandaughters of the King are not known by the people and not connected to Romania so the King's descendants not only not have dynastic rights but are not really interested in the restoration.
The Movement for the Kingdom and Crown and the Monarchist Clubs also know the campaign for the restoration needs time.

 

[Cory]

The clear purpose of the monarchists remain the restoration :

https://monarhiasalveazaromania.wordpress.com/2016/03/15/manifest-miscarea-pentru-regat-si-coroana/

 

[LadyRohan]

The main goal of the Royal Family of Romania is the restoration of the monarchy in Romania.

Principesa Margareta: Sunt pregătită pentru reinstaurarea monarhiei | DC News | De ce se intampla

'Sunt aici. Sunt pregătită.' - I'm here. I'm ready.

Intelligently, the Crown Princess said in her statement last year, that 'we want to serve the country as we can, ... it depends on the Romanian and the political will', knowing full well that the restoring the monarchy is a process that needs politicians to support it, and people to be ready for it.

 

[Cory]

We will see in the next period the attitude towards Restoration of both the King's Family and the politicians. We will also have to see how the monarchists will build a strategy for the future.

 

[MAfan]

Several posts have been deleted, as they contained personal arguments between posters.

Again, I invite all the partecipants to the discussion to treat each other with the due respect and education.

MAfan
Romanian Forum Moderator

 

[CSENYC]

Thanks. The monarchists in the monarchy organization seem to like the new law regarding official status for the Royal House:

https://monarhiasalveazaromania.wor...ste-oficial-casa-regala-un-pas-spre-monarhie/

 

[Cris M]

Thanks. The monarchists in the monarchy organization seem to like the new law regarding official status for the Royal House:

https://monarhiasalveazaromania.wor...ste-oficial-casa-regala-un-pas-spre-monarhie/

I'm sure someone will claim that the Romanian monarchists know nothing about the Romanian monarchists' realities.

 

[Cory]

Thanks. The monarchists in the monarchy organization seem to like the new law regarding official status for the Royal House:

https://monarhiasalveazaromania.wor...ste-oficial-casa-regala-un-pas-spre-monarhie/

They represent a new Association and their aim is the restoration of Monarchy. Even recently though they mention the Norms of 2007 have forcthe moment validity only inside the Family.

 

[LadyRohan]

Thanks. The monarchists in the monarchy organization seem to like the new law regarding official status for the Royal House:

https://monarhiasalveazaromania.wor...ste-oficial-casa-regala-un-pas-spre-monarhie/

It is wonderful to read an actual review of the current process, and how it is a solid step towards a restoration.
Obviously this law is upsetting to those who want another family or dynasty on the throne, but a thorough reading of it makes it clear that Parliament is now doing what the King requested in 2007; recognizing female succession and the Crown Princess as head of the Royal Family in Romania.
The text draws some interesting parallels to the situation in Spain before the restoration, and as I have written many times before, in a country where there is no coup or war, this type of process is the best hope and possibly only way of changing a country into a monarchy, in cooperation with politicians.

This law cannot be approved soon enough in my view.

 

[Cory]

Many of those that signed the Petition against this law are not necessarily in favour of another Dynasty but are in favour of Monarchy. Certainly it is not the right of the republican authorities who is in the Line of Succession.
With the elections coming in autumn it will be very difficult to many politicians to vote such a law.

 

[Cory]

The law clearly speak there is no aim to restore the Monarchy,changes the Royal House in a sort of foundation/ngo controlled by the republican authorities and does not open any door to a future restoration but closes this possibility.

 

[LadyRohan]

Many of those that signed the Petition against this law are not necessarily in favour of another Dynasty but are in favour of Monarchy. Certainly it is not the right of the republican authorities who is in the Line of Succession.
With the elections coming in autumn it will be very difficult to many politicians to vote such a law.

It is the right of any democratic nation to decide who to offer a throne, and in the case of Romania, the defunct line of succession is neither relevant, nor up to date with the times we live in.
The position given to the Royal Family and the Crown Princess in the new law makes it clear what dynasty is to be the Royal House of Romania, and in as far as a republic can, make it clear who will be offered the throne at a restoration.
Politicians are awake of the upcoming election. They still choose to create this law.
I would say your fear of them not voting for it, is unfounded.

 

[LadyRohan]

The law clearly speak there is no aim to restore the Monarchy,changes the Royal House in a sort of foundation/ngo controlled by the republican authorities and does not open any door to a future restoration but closes this possibility.

The law does not close the possibility of restoring the monarchy in any way.
Not one part of the law does that, and I would ask you to point to any part of the law proposed that would block a restoration.

 

[Cory]

Where it speaks about the form of government.
Instead of advocating to cancel from the Constitution the prohibition to revise the form of government, now Elisabeta Palace would accept a law that clearly speak about not changing the republican form of government.

 

[LadyRohan]

Where it speaks about the form of government.
Instead of advocating to cancel from the Constitution the prohibition to revise the form of government, now Elisabeta Palace would accept a law that clearly speak about not changing the republican form of government.

This law is not meant to restore the monarchy, it is meant to outlay how the Royal Family is to be assisted by the state, how it is to be organized etc. It does not in any way speak about not restoring the monarchy, but as several monarchical organizations have made clear, it creates a very good platform from which the Royal Family can function, and through their work, spread the message of monarchy in Romania.

The monarchy won't return by zealotry and force, it will return by hard and focused work by the Royal Family, support from politicians and more attention to its strengths.

If some believe in doing it differently, go down that road and see where it leads. I recommend starting with a formal letter to the Hohenzollerns, asking them about restoring the line of succession from 1923.

There's no need to wait for the death of the King, as some have claimed before. He has abdicated his titular claim in favour of his daughter. She is the claimant now.

Ask them.
I for one can't wait for the answer.

 

[Cory]

The King,even if represented by his eldest daughter at different events, is still the King.

 

[CSENYC]

Where it speaks about the form of government.
Instead of advocating to cancel from the Constitution the prohibition to revise the form of government, now Elisabeta Palace would accept a law that clearly speak about not changing the republican form of government.

All the law says is that the law itself isn't intended to be a change in the Constitution.

That should be fine; that's just a lawyer's words and just mean, "this is a regular law; it's not a Constitutional amendment".

The law is silent about future Constitutional changes, which could happen.

It's also fine for Parliament to approve a line of succession; that is normal in European monarchies. If the government decides that a benefit (i.e., official recognition of the Royal House) is being given, it has the right to decide who is part of the Royal House and thus entitled to the benefit.

Again, if this law doesn't pass, King Michael's family will just be regular commoners, like the rest of us, and the people who dispute the validity of the republic will continue to sound crazy. It's important to deal with reality as it is if you want to change it.

 

[Cory]

In the constitutional Monarchy it is the Parliament who decides on the Royal House including Succession. Romania is a republic and not a constitutional Monarchy.

 

[CSENYC]

Cory, in a democracy where the rule of law exists, a legislature can decide who is entitled to the benefits of laws that it passes. Montenegro, Germany and plenty of other countries are republics where governments have passed laws giving benefits to royal families, and legislatures there have decided who is entitled to those benefits.

Is Romania not a democracy where the rule of law exists?

Again, questioning the legitimacy of the republic is not a pragmatic approach and does more harm than good: it makes the questioner sound crazy.

 

[Cory]

One thing is to give a compensation to a former reigning House and completely a different issue to recognize who is the Head of that House. A republic can't decide on that.