Restoration of the Monarchy in Romania


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I agree that in order to have a restoration of Monarchy there is the need for a Prince outside the King's Family (but from the Hohenzollern House) to be supported by the monarchists.
The new "arrangement" is not a restoration of Monarchy at all but a strenghtening of the republic.

I would like to see the Fürst von Hohenzollern as well because I believe that going the Margareta-Elena-Karina way leads to nothing as the last two are totally invisible and seems not to pursue any role in the Royal House. The problem is that also the Fürst von Hohenzollern, the rightful heir before the michaelist acadabra with the succession, and his son are also not very interested in playing a role in Romania. The only one really and actively promoting a role for the former royal family are Princess Margareta and Radu. They -not even the King- were the ones to keep the royal torch burning. It is thanks to them that the former royal family is not vegetating somewhere in a London suburbia.
 
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Just because you disagree with the succession proposed by the King, the politicians clearly accept that times have changed since 1947, and that female heirs of a King is more acceptable than foreign princes who haven't held a title or position legally for a century. I never thought I'd have to say this in a monarchical thread on a monarchical forum, but thank God for politicians who manage to have a wider and more functional view than narrow-minded, self-declared 'supporters'.

All very well said.

Also, it is worth remembering that Cory was for the 2007 Fundamental Laws before he was against them.

He continually referred to the King's heiress as Crown Princess Margarita before he reverted to simply calling her Princess Margarita.

He regularly accorded the title of Prince of Romania to the consort of the Crown Princess before he started alluding to Prince Radu as simply "the husband of Princess Margarita."

Etc., etc., etc.
 
The fact to give a news about the King's Family does not mean to agree with it. Instead of trying to offend me you'd better try to understand Romania.
 
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Why don't we let the Romanian legislature define the succession rules for the Royal Family? That's how other European monarchies set those rules. Can't have it both way: a restoration, with the current Royal Family actually governing, but with the Royal Family totally exempt from democratic accountability. Democracy doesn't work that way.

If this Royal Family doesn't have acceptable successors (and German-speaking Hohenzollerns are not going to be acceptable), why not pick Prince Charles, a "real" Royal who actually spends time in Romania? Romania and the UK could be separate monarchies with one King. Sounds far-fetched, but those kinds of things happened in the past, and Prince Charles is a celebrity enough who could maybe get a restoration.
 
A republican Parliament has no right to decide about the dynastic rights. Only in case of the restoration of Monarchy that would be acceptable.
Who tells you the Hohenzollerns won't be acceptable?And by the way acceptable to who?
 
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Parliament can set the law for the country, and if it is giving the Royal House official status, it has the right to determine who individually will benefit from that official status, restoration or not.

There is no precedent whatsoever for a citizens of a republican democracy in the 20th or 21st centuries to freely vote to accept, as a monarch, a foreigner who does not even speak the language of the country. Let's get real.

Also, like it or not (and I don't like it), but Romania is a republic, and the republican system is in charge. Denying its legitimacy just makes royalists sound crazy; that serves no practical purpose. Work within the republican system to get a restoration instead of going on and on about how the republican regime is illegitimate.
 
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Is Princess Margareta less foreigner than her Hohenzollern cousins?She does not speak a good Romanian after so many years.Probably the Hohenzollerns could lear a better Romanian if they try.
Of course Romania is a republic and now the republic is even stronger with this new project of law. A republic has no tigh and no constititional basis to decide on who is the Head of a Royal House.
 
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The Duke of Aosta and his son Prince Aimone served in the Italian armed forces. So did Prince Henri d'Orléans and Prince Georg Friedrich of Prussia. Italia is a republic. France is a republic. Germany is a republic. All have to live on and find a place in the realities of their respective countries. They have to pay taxes to the republican State. They have to obey the laws of the republican State. They themselves use the legislative and juridicary system of the republican State when they have a conflict and start a lawsuit. They make use of the infrastructure, the public services, the security and the protection of the republican State. Still Amedeo di Aosta, Henri d'Orléans and Georg Friedrich von Preussen are very much royalborn Princes and have a role as Chef of their royal dynasties. What else can one expect them to do???

By my understanding the State of Romania has stated nothing about the succession in the Royal House. King Michael is still the former head of state of Romania, is still the Chef of the House. I have not seen a document in which Romania states anything at all about the succession. When the Royal House finds that the Fürst von Hohenzollern is the new head of the House of Romania, then that is nice. It is an affaire particulier, the state seems not to take any position in that. Exactly like the State of Bavaria or the State of Württemberg do not interfere at all in decisions in the House of Wittelsbach or the House of Württemberg.
 
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Obviously you did not read the project of law of the republican government of Romania issued few days ago. In the project it is clearly stated that the two Chambers of the Parliament would recognize the Head of the Royal House. I hardly believe the Italian or French Parliament would do so for Prince Louis of Bourbon or for Prince Amedeo of Savoy.
 
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The head of the Romanian Royal House they would eventually recognize is their very own former headf of state, isn't it?

French Parliamemt indeed would never do so for a Spanish-born citizen from a Spanish father and a Spanish mother, from a non-dynastical branch of the Spanish royal family which have up all rights on the throne of France 300 years ago and whose claim is a farce.

Italian Parliament indeed would never do so either since the headship of the Royal House of Italy is disputed. The headship of the Royal House of Romania is not disputed. By no one. Here the Romanian Parliament essntially recognizes the headship of the Royal House of the very same person who was indeed their very own King. Twice even.
 
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The French and Italian Parliaments would never recognize any Head of the Royal House in their countries for the simple reason thise COUNTRIES ARE REPUBLICS.
The new project of law in Romania does not recognize other Head of State but would recognize the "Head of the Royal House" as a sort of leader of an institution from the republican establishment.
 
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Is Princess Margareta less foreigner than her Hohenzollern cousins?She does not speak a good Romanian after so many years.Probably the Hohenzollerns could lear a better Romanian if they try.
Of course Romania is a republic and now the republic is even stronger with this new project of law. A republic has no tigh and no constititional basis to decide on who is the Head of a Royal House.

It seems like some posters live in an alternate universe.

Is Crown Princess Margarita of Romania a Romanian citizen? Yes.
Is the Prince of Hohenzollern a Romanian citizen? No, he's German.

Did Crown Princess Margarita of Romania return to Romania as soon as possible after the fall of Communism? Yes.
Did the Prince of Hohenzollern return to Romania as soon as possible after the fall of the Communists? No, he's never even been to Romania.

Has Crown Princess Margarita of Romania lived in Romania for nearly twenty years? Yes.
Has the Prince of Hohenzollern lived in Romania for nearly twenty years? No, because he would have to visit there first.

Did Crown Princess Margarita of Romania establish a foundation to combat the many societal ills that she was struck by when she came to Romania in the 1990s? Yes.
Did the Prince of Hohenzollern establish a foundation to combat the many societal ills that he was struck by when he came to Romania in the 1990s? Um, no, because he has zero interest in the country or its citizens.

Has Crown Princess Margarita of Romania been personally responsible for raising millions of euros for the amelioration of the conditions of the people of Romania? Yes.
Has the Prince of Hohenzollern been personally responsible for raising millions of euros for the amelioration of the conditions of the people of Romania? Nope.

Etc., etc., etc.
 
The French and Italian Parliaments would never recognize any Head of the Royal House in their countries for the simple reason thise COUNTRIES ARE REPUBLICS.
The new project of law in Romania does not recognize other Head of State but would recognize the "Head of the Royal House" as a sort of leader of an institution from the republican establishment.

Romania was only a monarchy from 1881 until 1947. That is 66 years. The exile of former King Michael (1947 until present) is longer than the whole Royal House ever reigned in Romania!

It is a miracle that the Romanian state is so well-willing towards a Royal House which only was a short intermezzo in the long history of their country!
 
It is indeed a good thing all around, except for those select few who object on specific grounds that no longer have relevance or any air of realism about them. The country benefits, as the Royal Family can do a lot of good work as other Royal Families across Europe do, despite not being officially restored as sovereigns and so on. The family benefits, as it formalizes work and the arrangements around them, and allows them a purpose in life. I think it bears repeating, everyone needs a purpose in life, even royals. If they are actually given that through a meaningful role with a support system in place, that is brilliant.
The government benefits as well, of course it does, by not having such an open-end question of the monarchy up in the air, but the point that some seem to forget, is that the government is also walking into this situation with wide open eyes. They know full well that the process may lead to people asking for the monarchy to be fully restored, and the republic disestablished. They accept that risk, knowing it isn't all that large, but cast one look over to Great Britain at this point in time, and ask politicians about risks, big or small. Stuff happens, it may in Romania as well.

This solution does not settle restoration, it isn't meant to. It's meant to formalize the roles of the Royal Family, their historic and present circumstances and provide a role and a function from now on. It can be amended, adjusted, expanded or at some point, if circumstances change, but as for now, it is a good law, for the only ones who have shown any monarchic or royal interest in Romania, the King and his eldest and youngest daughters.

In the end, if you believe that the Royal Family has no validity beyond the King anyway, why does it upset you that this 'family of ordinary citizens' are given these prerogatives at all? Surely in your mind this is just the government throwing away good money on a propaganda scheme to raise their own profiles at the expense of the monarchy.

Funny that the use actual royals to do that then.
Seems a little contrary to me.
 
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It seems like some posters live in an alternate universe.

Is Crown Princess Margarita of Romania a Romanian citizen? Yes.
Is the Prince of Hohenzollern a Romanian citizen? No, he's German.

Did Crown Princess Margarita of Romania return to Romania as soon as possible after the fall of Communism? Yes.
Did the Prince of Hohenzollern return to Romania as soon as possible after the fall of the Communists? No, he's never even been to Romania.

Has Crown Princess Margarita of Romania lived in Romania for nearly twenty years? Yes.
Has the Prince of Hohenzollern lived in Romania for nearly twenty years? No, because he would have to visit there first.

Did Crown Princess Margarita of Romania establish a foundation to combat the many societal ills that she was struck by when she came to Romania in the 1990s? Yes.
Did the Prince of Hohenzollern establish a foundation to combat the many societal ills that he was struck by when he came to Romania in the 1990s? Um, no, because he has zero interest in the country or its citizens.

Has Crown Princess Margarita of Romania been personally responsible for raising millions of euros for the amelioration of the conditions of the people of Romania? Yes.
Has the Prince of Hohenzollern been personally responsible for raising millions of euros for the amelioration of the conditions of the people of Romania? Nope.

Etc., etc., etc.

Just some of the many, many, many comparisons one can draw, and it does not serve to the detriment of the Hohenzollerns, who do very good work with their properties and projects of both a current and historic nature, at all.
I think we could safely add the one that clinches it all for me:
Has Crown Princess Margareta declared that the Royal Family is in Romania to serve in whatever capacity the people want them to? Yes, on several occasions, lastly when she was asked the question of restoration directly on tv last Winter.
Has the Prince of Hohenzollern declared that the Princely Family is in Romania to serve in whatever capacity the people want them to? No. The current reigning Prince has never set foot in Romania. His Father declared before his death that his family and he himself had no interest in the Romanian throne.

What more does it take? Current succession might not be optimal, but it's a start. Let's take it from there.
 
Romania was only a monarchy from 1881 until 1947. That is 66 years. The exile of former King Michael (1947 until present) is longer than the whole Royal House ever reigned in Romania!

It is a miracle that the Romanian state is so well-willing towards a Royal House which only was a short intermezzo in the long history of their country!

It is only one purpose: to close one for all the question of Monarchy.
 
It seems like some posters live in an alternate universe.

Is Crown Princess Margarita of Romania a Romanian citizen? Yes.
Is the Prince of Hohenzollern a Romanian citizen? No, he's German.

Did Crown Princess Margarita of Romania return to Romania as soon as possible after the fall of Communism? Yes.
Did the Prince of Hohenzollern return to Romania as soon as possible after the fall of the Communists? No, he's never even been to Romania.

Has Crown Princess Margarita of Romania lived in Romania for nearly twenty years? Yes.
Has the Prince of Hohenzollern lived in Romania for nearly twenty years? No, because he would have to visit there first.

Did Crown Princess Margarita of Romania establish a foundation to combat the many societal ills that she was struck by when she came to Romania in the 1990s? Yes.
Did the Prince of Hohenzollern establish a foundation to combat the many societal ills that he was struck by when he came to Romania in the 1990s? Um, no, because he has zero interest in the country or its citizens.

Has Crown Princess Margarita of Romania been personally responsible for raising millions of euros for the amelioration of the conditions of the people of Romania? Yes.
Has the Prince of Hohenzollern been personally responsible for raising millions of euros for the amelioration of the conditions of the people of Romania? Nope.

Etc., etc., etc.
At least the Hohenzollerns do not speak Romanian but do not pretend to be Romanians. The eldest daughter of the King speak Romanian but nit very well while her sisters hardly speak the language even if their father was the King of Romania. I ignore hiw many of the descendants of the King have Romanian citizenship but probably the majority don't.
Of course Romanians do not want that a couple of private citizens have money from the state when they can support themselves very well.
Any person who has a respect for Monarchy and wants it really restore in Romania could be only appaled of the new compromise this couple want to do.
As for the Hohenzollerns it is not true they have never visited the country but they visited it in a very discreet way. Some of the monarchists' discuss a lot these days the importance of the Hohenzollern Line but we have to see if they will publicly ask the Hohenzollerns to assume their rightful dynastic rights.
 
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Romania was only a monarchy from 1881 until 1947. That is 66 years. The exile of former King Michael (1947 until present) is longer than the whole Royal House ever reigned in Romania!
King Carol I. was Prince of Roman since 1866 and became King in 1881. So Romania was a Monarchy from 1866-1947.
 
Romania was a constitutional Monarchy from 1866 to 1947 but Romanians have always had Monarchy sonce the Middle Ages. There is no republucan tradition in the Romanian history.
 
At least the Hohenzollerns do not speak Romanian but do not pretend to be Romanians. The eldest daughter of the King speak Romanian but nit very well while her sisters hardly speak the language even if their father was the King of Romania. I ignore hiw many of the descendants of the King have Romanian citizenship but probably the majority don't.
Of course Romanians do not want that a couple of private citizens have money from the state when they can support themselves very well.
Any person who has a respect for Monarchy and wants it really restore in Romania could be only appaled of the new compromise this couple want to do.
As for the Hohenzollerns it is not true they have never visited the country but they visited it in a very discreet way. Some of the monarchists' discuss a lot these days the importance of the Hohenzollern Line but we have to see if they will publicly ask the Hohenzollerns to assume their rightful dynastic rights.

This is an elitist and snobby argument, used against someone who does their best at speaking a language they did not grow up with. Many royal families speak French, English or German in private, and do not use the language of the country they rule over, such as the Danish and Swedish royal families, who mainly use French.
Many former royal families, such as the Romanian, have used French as well in exile, for natural reasons, as they resided in French-speaking countries. When they're allowed home at an adult age to a country they have not used the language of, and still command it without any problems, nobody serious cares if they have an accent or make a mistake from time to time.
Queen Maxima is loved by the Dutch I know for her accent. The Swedes sometimes make a passing comment about the Queens Swedish, but I have never heard her mocked or the language pointed out without it being followed by nice things said about her work, person or role.

To be abusive and to ridicule people who try and do a job, just because you want to revisit the old issue that some monarchists have tried since the King returned to Romania, about his succession and their opposition to females, we should remember the words of the King and his making it clear that as a European nation, a signatory to the convention on human rights and equal rights for women being the norm across the continent, this battle is over.
The Crown Princess is the heir of the King, she is accepted as such by those who know about the monarchy, by the media, the politicians and the elite, and those select few who keep revisiting the issue that you're constantly bringing up on these threads, just serve as a reminder of how fast a monarchical campaign can become a farce, if it doesn't stay in touch with what people want and can accept, what is logical and legal, what is possible and doable and what is remotely achievable.

To rehash the same issue based on a few, detached people not accepting that time has not stood still since 1923, is counter-productive and serves not to inform, but to sabotage an issue that could and would be good for Romanians; the monarchy returning to Romania.

Until that day comes, the monarchy is well represented by the Royal Family, who are working diligently and hard to safeguard the interests of people, alongside those who are now in charge of Romania. It's the only way to reasonably work towards a change.
 
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It is quite clear the King's elsest daughter is not advocating for the restoration of Monarchy and that's even more obvious after accepting the last project of law. She is often critisized for her Romanian language by very many Romanians. If you consider yourself Romanian you speak the language. Marina Sturdza for example was raised in exile but she speaks a very good Romanian.
 
What language do the King and Queen speak together, and what language do the Princesses speak when together? I assume English or French? Does anyone in the Royal Family speak German?
 
If you consider yourself Romanian you speak the language. .

Crown Princess Margareta speaks Romanian, in a slower speed and without any disruptive problems at all.

It is quite clear the King's elsest daughter is not advocating for the restoration of Monarchy and that's even more obvious after accepting the last project of law.

That is your view, and not a fact. In fact, as is evident by a majority of politicians in a republic actually supporting this kind of transfer of power, tasks, property and funds to a Royal Family, she is indeed the Custodian of the Crown of Romania, and she serves the interests of the monarchy quite well.
If the Royal Family had declared against the government and entertained a situation of open hostility towards politicians and the system, they would have achieved nothing and restoration of the monarchy and royal functions in Romania would had been a far-fetched dream that would had died with the King someday.
That is not productive, useful or serving any cause.

If you want to be a leader, you have to have followers and supporters. The Crown Princess now has the choice of working with those who can effectively help change the system, the people and the politicians, or she can choose to go with zealots and fanatics who do not support her claim to the throne anyway.
Why on Earth would she choose the latter?
 
What language do the King and Queen speak together, and what language do the Princesses speak when together? I assume English or French? Does anyone in the Royal Family speak German?

I believe the King and Queen, as well as the Crown Princessly couple, have conversational skills in German, but their main languages are French and Romanian, interspersed with English when needed.
 
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It is quite clear the King's elsest daughter is not advocating for the restoration of Monarchy and that's even more obvious after accepting the last project of law. [...]

Maybe because she is a realist?
 
What language do the King and Queen speak together, and what language do the Princesses speak when together? I assume English or French? Does anyone in the Royal Family speak German?

Mainly French and English. I do not suppose any of them speak German and the majority of the members of the Family do not speak Romanian either.
 
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King Carol I. was Prince of Roman since 1866 and became King in 1881. So Romania was a Monarchy from 1866-1947.

And his predecessor was Alexandru Ioan Cuza, Prince of Romania from 1859-1866.

[...] such as the Danish and Swedish royal families, who mainly use French.

I cannot comment on the Danes, but I am not aware that the Swedish royal family uses French in private. Do you remember where you read this?
 
I cannot comment on the Danes, but I am not aware that the Swedish royal family uses French in private. Do you remember where you read this?

I didn't.

When it comes to restoring the monarchy in Romania, there are two choices and two possible ways of going about it.
1) The Royal Family, with the King at its apex, forms the basis of a restored and continued reigning dynasty, with historical links through the King and his predecessors. If the Royal Family is to return to the throne, it will be either via female succession of his eldest daughter, of whom he has five, or it will bypass his daughter, to go to the first eligible male, his grandson Nicholas. A male heir will settle the nerves of those who are nervous about female succession, but those with such problems need to get over them, as female succession is today as normal and acceptable to a population as other, formerly controversial societal changes are becoming.
2) A member of the House of Hohenzollern, that once provided the basis for the current Royal Family, and who could again be asked to do the same.

When it comes to 1), what speaks for it, is their presence in Romania today, as opposed to 2). They represent the King, the last monarch of Romania, as opposed to 2). They're engaged in Romanian society and have connections in every area vital to anyone with aspirations on behalf of the monarchy, which requires a systemic change, as opposed to 2). They have declared their interest in serving Romania as the people would want them to, as opposed to 2), who have declared that they are not interested in the Romanian throne.

When it comes to 2), what speaks for it, is that some see them as the legal heirs to the Romanian throne through the last constitution involving the monarchy of 1923, despite it being abolished 69 years ago. They do however represent the family that the Kings grandparents stem from, despite 1) still having the same heritage, despite not using a foreign princely title anymore. 2) has never objected or protested the suggested changes by the King to the line of succession, should the monarchy be restored, that proposes that 1) continues to reign as the Royal Family of Romania in the event of a restoration, and that fundamental and universally approved principles across Europe about human rights are implemented.

At no point has 1) demanded the restoration of the monarchy in Romania under a female ruler, but the King has made it clear that his family will not reign again, under what is now seen as rules and restrictions that are out of date and not in keeping with monarchy or society in a Western nation.
At no point has 1) stated that they are entering into an arrangement with the government to avoid restoring the monarchy.
At no point has 1) withdrawn from Romania voluntarily. The King was exiled, and since the return of 1) after the fall of communism, the Royal Family has actively worked charitably and in areas they have been able to, to the benefit of Romanians.
At no point has 2) made any public statement or in other ways made clear their disapproval of the actions of the King with regards to succession, transfer of power to the Crown Princess, designation of titles in Romania and so forth.
At no point has 2) ever publicly demanded a return to the monarchy in Romania, and at no point have they sought to collude with those who today claim the illegitimacy of the Royal Family continuing after the King.
At no point has 2) in any way supported those who are actively working to displace the Royal Family when it comes to the future of the monarchy in Romania.

The Romanian Royal Family is aware that no monarchy today in Europe, can exist without cooperation with politicians and civic society. They have cleverly sought to build friendships and relations with those who are today in positions of influence and power, knowing full well that nothing, absolutely nothing will come of making enemies out of those who can help you achieve your goal. The Royal Family is fully aware that in every society there are people who oppose your actions, and within every community, there are those who disagree with your choices.

The only thing that puzzles me, is why some spend so much energy sabotaging the only ones, the only ones who are actively working towards a future for the monarchy in Romania, the Royal Family and the Custodian.
Fortunately, the politicians in Romania are far more respectful than some who claim to support the cause, and they are far more appreciative and attentive to what goes on in their own society than those who actively hanker for days that are so long gone by that they will never return.

It is clear from every piece of factual and anecdotal evidence up to this point, that there is just one way forward for the monarchy in Romania, and that is through those who represent it every day, actively, in their own country, like it or not.

As nobody would had predicted the current changes taking place just a short while ago, it will be interesting to see what comes next. I am certainly very hopeful!
 
And his predecessor was Alexandru Ioan Cuza, Prince of Romania from 1859-1866.



I cannot comment on the Danes, but I am not aware that the Swedish royal family uses French in private. Do you remember where you read this?

Alexandru Ioan Cuza was an elected Prince who just prepared the Throne for the Constitutional Mobarchy with foreign Sovereign.
 
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