Restoration of the Monarchy in Romania


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The number of the royalists was really growing after 1990. The moments that made some of them stop supporting the former Monarch were in: 1996, 2007,2015.
 
Cory said:
The number of the royalists was really growing after 1990. The moments that made some of them stop supporting the former Monarch were in: 1996, 2007,2015.
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I think you are mixing up 'stop supporting' with people who got confused by events in the Royal Family, such as the demotion of the-then Prince Nicholas in 2015. However, why such events, including that of Princess Sophie, confuses those who proclaim loudly and repetitively that the King is not entitled to change the succession or anything else monarchical in Romania, is just baffling.

You simply cannot be so inconsistent as to refuse the King the right to change titles and propose a line of succession, and then criticize every decision he makes under the rules you deny validity at all.
 
Cory said:
The number of the royalists was really growing after 1990. The moments that made some of them stop supporting the former Monarch were in: 1996, 2007,2015.
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Could you please provide us any kind of source supporting the data you reported above?
 
I was just saying the numbers of royalists were not really great in 1990 but then started to grow. The polls showed a support forcthe King of even 40-45% few years ago.
In 1996, 2007 and 2015 were the monents when some royalists were dissapoinred even if they continued to remain royalists.
There are not polls regarding the attitude of the royalists regarding the decisiobs of the King. If somebody knows the Romanian royalists and read the articles in the ain newspapers it is easy to see all this.
 
Cory said:
I was just saying the numbers of royalists were not really great in 1990 but then started to grow. The polls showed a support forcthe King of even 40-45% few years ago.
In 1996, 2007 and 2015 were the monents when some royalists were dissapoinred even if they continued to remain royalists.
There are not polls regarding the attitude of the royalists regarding the decisiobs of the King. If somebody knows the Romanian royalists and read the articles in the ain newspapers it is easy to see all this.
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What you 'see' in newspaper articles, is a combination of the view of the newspaper, interpreted by the reader, coloured by his/her own view. As an example of today, if you are in favour of Donald Trump and read newspaper X, you will see he is on his way to win the American election. If you are against him, read newspaper Y and find support for your view that he will never win.

The only polls made in Romania lately with regards to support for the King vs other official persons, shows him consistently at the top. With regards to the monarchy, represented only in Romania by the Royal Family, the latest polls measured support around 30%.

Can you please provide material to show a downturn in levels of support, or any level if support for the monarchy, excluding the Royal Family?

If not, these statements are pure campaign and not based on factual evidence at all.
 
They are not such polls in Romania. The King is popular even if his popularity is less than 50%. We will see the polls after him.
There are different royalist journalists that defended the Royal Family in 1990 when a lot of people as anti-royalist. Some of these royalist journalists expressed their dissapointed few tines in the last months. The real change is not represented by joyrnalusts but by many royalists that seem not to understand anymore the decisions officially signed in Aubonne.
You can't understand a country unless you know the mentality of the people, its politics and you speak not only with thise that have an " official thesis".
 
Cory said:
They are not such polls in Romania. The King is popular even if his popularity is less than 50%. We will see the polls after him.
There are different royalist journalists that defended the Royal Family in 1990 when a lot of people as anti-royalist. Some of these royalist journalists expressed their dissapointed few tines in the last months. The real change is not represented by joyrnalusts but by many royalists that seem not to understand anymore the decisions officially signed in Aubonne.
You can't understand a country unless you know the mentality of the people, its politics and you speak not only with thise that have an " official thesis".
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Once again, the continued references to 'knowing the country' are disrespectful, as you have no idea where I'm from and what I know, and I make no such judgements about yourself.

If you did however apply this phrase, knowing the country, to the Royal Family, some of whom are actively working and existing in Romania, while the Hohenzollerns do not know, do not visit, do not speak the language and, in the words of the late Prince Karl, have no interest in, how do you manage to come out with the Royal Family being against the wishes of Romanians, but the German, uninterested and unconnected Hohenzollerns are?

It just eludes me.

It is true, some journalists question issues that arise. That is their job. In the quarter of a century that has passed since the fall of communism, Romania has changed a lot, but in some ways, it remains dangerously close to the same nation it was back then.

It's only been two years since you yourself supported the King completely, and now there is a steady campaign against him, that claims support from unknown and unseen sources. It is very destructive to the common campaign we have to restore the monarchy, in a strong, credible and realistic form.
 
I have always respected King Mihai even when I did not agreed with some of his decisions after 1996.
For the moment the question of the restoration is really complicated anyway.
Ideas like the new program " The Steel Crown" promoted by Digi 24 could raise again the interest in the Monarchy giving Carol I of Hohenzollern as a model.
 
There are now the following assciations: the ANRM (very close to Elisabeta Palace's ideas), MRC ( in favour of the restoration of Monarchy) and the Royalists Clubs. How will these three typesof Associations cooperate and how will they approach the difficult issues?
 
Cory said:
Statement of the Movement for Kingdom and Crown (leaded by Mrs marilena Rotaru) regarding the condemnation of communism and the necessity of the restoration of Monarchy:

Mișcarea radicală pentru Regat și Coroană. Cerere de urgență către Parlament | DC News | De ce se intampla
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It's interesting that they refer to the King's daughter as "HRH Crown Princess Margarita, Custodian of the Crown, recognising both titles conferred on her by her father.

"de A.S.R. Principesa Moștenitoare Margareta a României, custode al Coroanei Române"http://www.dcnews.ro/mi-carea-radic...re-parlament_500056.html#sthash.NpsZVYSD.dpuf
 
It is interesting all 5 granchildren and the great-grandchildren are mentioned too even ifthe majority of them are not on the very modified proposed list of "succession".
 
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Cory said:
It is interesting all 5 granchildren and the great-grandchildren are mentioned too even ifthe majority of them are not on the very modified proposed list of "succession".
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Examined objectively, it's hard to see any connection between mentioning them and "the succession" - after all, none of the family is in the 1923 line of succession. It's normal to be respectful and inclusive, I'd say, when expressing support for a family in difficult times.

The interesting part is not "who" is referred to but "how" they are styled.
 
The republican authorities must be delighted about the situation that exists now. The King's Family has a semi-official role but the republic is strong.
 
Cory said:
The republican authorities must be delighted about the situation that exists now. The King's Family has a semi-official role but the republic is strong.
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I really don't understand the point of, or the facts behind, this statement. Where is your evidence that the republic is strong, and that 'republican authorities' are delighted?
The King has a very high standing among Romanians, the Crown Princess is highly respected and the Royal Family attends functions, acts in cooperation with the government wherever appropriate and thoroughly acts the way a constitutional monarchy functions.
It's not the job of the Royal Family to actively push a restoration. It's their job to be visible in public, make sure their standing grows and make the thought of a systemic change be at the forefront of peoples minds.

The Romanian republic is fairly weak, with low support among the public and a high degree of discontent, corruption and nepotism rampant at every level. I would personally say that since the return of the King after the revolution, the Royal Family has not enjoyed a stronger standing than it does now and is on the rise in the eyes of many Romanians.
 
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LadyRohan said:
I would personally say that since the return of the King after the revolution, the Royal Family has not enjoyed a stronger standing than it does now and is on the rise in the eyes of many Romanians.
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Thanks to the Crown Princess, in my opinion. And the she was nominated woman of the year in Romania means she's not disliked or an unknown quantity, as some like to imply, but someone people hold in high regard and that is influential. She's everything a future Queen should be.
 
LadyRohan said:
I really don't understand the point of, or the facts behind, this statement. Where is your evidence that the republic is strong, and that 'republican authorities' are delighted?
The King has a very high standing among Romanians, the Crown Princess is highly respected and the Royal Family attends functions, acts in cooperation with the government wherever appropriate and thoroughly acts the way a constitutional monarchy functions.
It's not the job of the Royal Family to actively push a restoration. It's their job to be visible in public, make sure their standing grows and make the thought of a systemic change be at the forefront of peoples minds.

The Romanian republic is fairly weak, with low support among the public and a high degree of discontent, corruption and nepotism rampant at every level. I would personally say that since the return of the King after the revolution, the Royal Family has not enjoyed a stronger standing than it does now and is on the rise in the eyes of many Romanians.
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Is there any reason to believe that the restoration will help to decrease or eradicate nepotism/corruptions/ other societal woes? What will the systemic change bring to Romanians? Romanians executed Nicolae Ceaușescu and his spouse for nepotism, corruption, etc. Nowadays, there is still "... low support among the public and a high degree of discontent, corruption and nepotism rampant at every level". Nothing seems to changed under the new democratic government. I am sceptical about the stories of former communists sabotaging new Romania.
 
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It is extremely importat they do not mention only people from the last version of the "line" proposed by the King.
 
Cory said:
It is extremely importat they do not mention only people from the last version of the "line" proposed by the King.
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Your comment is impossible to understand. Who are "they"? in what context? Why (in your opinion)?
 
We were speaking about the statemet of one of the leaders of MRC.
 
Two newspapers report the latest poll concerning support for the royal house and the reinstatement of a monarchy in Romania.

SONDAJ - Monarhia pierde teren după retragerea Regelui Mihai şi excluderea Principelui Nicolae - Stiri pe surse - Cele mai noi stiri


SONDAJ Cât teren a pierdut monarhia în România după abdicarea Regelui Mihai | adevarul.ro

Those with a positive or very positive image of the royal house is at 44.5%, compared to 42.9% in September last year.
Those with a bad or very bad impression has dropped to 12.9% from 16.3% six months ago.

The remaining 41.8% are in the neither good nor bad or don't know categories.

It seems fair to conclude that the positive image of the royal house continues to grow.

With regard to reinstatement of a monarchy, support has fallen from 29.1% to 24.5% in the last six months. A further 22.2% don't know (up from 18.3%). Those who support a republican form of government has risen slightly from 52.5% to 53.3%.

So, while support for the republic remains fairly constant, voters seem to be having more doubts with regard to a monarchy.

Concerning the image of the Crown Princess herself, 39.7% have a good/very positive image and 13.4% a bad/very bad one with the remainder "don't knows" or "neither good nor bad".
 
:previous:

Thanks for the information Andy T.

It's an interesting set of results and would be good to get and update on them if they do a poll in a few months time.

I suppose the results can be interpreted in a variety of ways. It seems the royal family are well like by a good proportion of the population, but that they are happy with the status quo in remaining a republic. I think that's fair enough considering the royal family do have a public role, if not a constitutional one.
 
That is a normal poll. Many republicans will like Don Felipe de Borbón or Elizabeth Windsor and have a good approval of them but asked about the form of state, will opt for a republic. A good approval of a person does not automatically translate in support for a monarchy.
 
The support for the Monarchy is less strong because of what happened after august 2015.
 
Cory said:
On the site stiripesurse.ro
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That is a general newslink, which does not show the polls to which you are referring at all.

I would assume you are however referring to SONDAJ - Monarhia pierde teren după retragerea Regelui Mihai şi excluderea Principelui Nicolae - Stiri pe surse - Cele mai noi stiri - the most recent polls conducted, referenced earlier in this thread. They show a 4,6% drop in support for the monarchy, after the events surrounding Nicholas M-M and the illness of H.M the King. As a comparison, the monarchy in Norway tends to suffer a 10% fluctuation whenever there is strong criticism of a specific event, down for a while, then back up when the storm calms. That is a natural reaction of people who are unsure about recent events, and in this specific case, I would say it is miraculous that the monarchy hasn't taken a heavier blow following the uncertainty of the line of succession. I would just add that the removal of Nicholas M-M from the proposed line of succession should in no way change the views of the Romanians when it comes to the monarchy, because as you have said over and over, Romanians are not in favour of the Royal Family in Romania continuing, but would instead wish for a new Hohenzollern Prince taking over as King, when that time comes, right?

Seems inconsistent to me.

The poll further shows that the Crown Princess is seen as great/good by 40% of the population, while 40% have no firm view on her. Only 14% have a negative view of the Crown Princess and Custodian of the Crown. Could you find any elected official with such numbers? With the exception of a few, I think you would struggle to even find a royal anywhere with that kind of support.

The Royal House of Romania is seen as great/good by 44% of the people, 37,7% have no firm view and 12,9% have a poor or very poor view of the family. I don't think it's even necessary to compare these numbers to those of other monarchies around the world. They are almost above any monarchy currently in existence.

The King is sick, and the one seen as the future heir is currently in a state of limbo in Romania, and the support for the monarchy is down 4,4%. I must say, to manage to spin that as a negative story for the monarchy, is a feat in itself.

These numbers are themselves reason enough to keep working towards a monarchical restoration in Romania. They show enormous potential, and a clear path forward for the monarchy, if the right actions are taken and the right combination of activity, visibility and discretion is chosen.

However, if Nicholas M-M was today a visible presence in Romania and in the Royal Family, the standing I believe would go through the roof. But that being said, what would it matter, as long as you say he shouldn't be the heir anyway?
 
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When compared to some of the cataclysmic scandals that have been whipped up by the media here in the UK, I agree entirely with LadyRohan, that the poll results are less damaging than they might have been.

Still, was there a question relating specifically to the change in the proposed line of succession?
 
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