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  #1441  
Old 08-21-2016, 02:24 AM
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Nicholas of Romania - Last Chance of a Dying Royal House
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  #1442  
Old 08-21-2016, 03:21 AM
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Very good article that shows how even many of the supporters of the "miguelist line" do not see any future for the King's Family without Mr Medforth Mills.
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  #1443  
Old 08-21-2016, 03:41 AM
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You seem to have a strange attitude. Either you support the legitimist line of succession or the michaelist line of succession.

What you do looks like: "I support the legitimist line of succession but when Nicholas Medforth-Mills is in play, I switch to the michelist line of succession".

That has nothing to do with a proper monarchy (= a constitutional system in which the head of state is delivered by hereditary succession). Either you support the legitimist line or the other one. Your support seems dependent on a personal preference. X-Factor Romania.

When you want Nicholas Medforth-Mills as head of the House of Romania, you need to support the michaelist line and no longer utter a word about the Hohenzollerns.
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  #1444  
Old 08-21-2016, 04:28 AM
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I am a convinced supporter of the legitimist Line of Succession but I can't ignore those monarchists that are fans of the "miguelist line" and are in favour of Mr Nicholas Medforth Mills.
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  #1445  
Old 08-21-2016, 10:12 AM
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Even those supporting the " miguelist line" would probably like Mr Medforth Mills to represent his Family after King Michael.
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  #1446  
Old 08-21-2016, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
You seem to have a strange attitude. Either you support the legitimist line of succession or the michaelist line of succession.

What you do looks like: "I support the legitimist line of succession but when Nicholas Medforth-Mills is in play, I switch to the michelist line of succession".

That has nothing to do with a proper monarchy (= a constitutional system in which the head of state is delivered by hereditary succession). Either you support the legitimist line or the other one. Your support seems dependent on a personal preference. X-Factor Romania.

When you want Nicholas Medforth-Mills as head of the House of Romania, you need to support the michaelist line and no longer utter a word about the Hohenzollerns.
I doubt it could be summed up better by anyone. Confusion is what confusion does.

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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
Even those supporting the " miguelist line" would probably like Mr Medforth Mills to represent his Family after King Michael.
I don't know who this 'Miguel' you keep referring to is, but the suggested line of succession introduced by King Michael, then head of the Royal Family of Romania and the last King of the Romanians, is the only one remotely in play in Romania. There is no other line of succession active, or proposed, in Romania, and as one can see from the process around establishing a law eith reference to the Royal House and the government dealing with the firstborn child of the King, Princess Margareta, and not some random member of the Hohenzollern family in Germany, it's clear to all not wearing rose-tinted glasses, where the future of the monarchy in Romania lies.
As the heir is childless, everyone pretty much knows that the future of the Royal Family in one way or another will have to be dealt with fairly soon, and that most likely it will involve re-instating Nicholas in the place after his aunt, bypassing hos mother.
That is my take on the situation, and I believe the delay of the apparent reconciliation is out of respect for the King, his advanced age and declining health being the deciding factors in play here.
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  #1447  
Old 08-21-2016, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Oh okay. That is a clear position then. Nicholas is out of both lines anyway.
Nicholas is the grandson of the King by istso is part of the Royal household. What's the other line?
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  #1448  
Old 08-21-2016, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
I am a convinced supporter of the legitimist Line of Succession but I can't ignore those monarchists that are fans of the "miguelist line" and are in favour of Mr Nicholas Medforth Mills.
What is the legitimist line of succession?
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  #1449  
Old 08-21-2016, 11:45 AM
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The only one that is in agreement with the Laws of the Royal House diring the Monarchy: the Princes of Hohenzollern.
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  #1450  
Old 08-21-2016, 12:20 PM
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What is the legitimist line of succession?
The legitimist (= according the law) succession is the one described in the Constitution of the Kingdom of Romania, which is the base of the kingship of King Michael himself. Until 30 December 2007 the succession as ruled by this Constitution was followed. On December 30th 2007 King Michael issued a new document: The Fundamental Rules of the Royal Family of Romania. In the prefix the King wrote: "By this document, all earlier statutes and all privileges, styles, titles, rank and rights of Dynasts or their descendants are revoked." With this he created a total new Royal House.

In the seventh lemma of Article 2 the King added his grandson to the Royal Family, gave him a royal title, and made him a successor:

Nicholas de Roumanie Medforth-Mills, who shall assume the title, style and rank of Prince of Romania and Royal Highness (jure sanguinis) on 1 April 2010, upon his 25th anniversary, or immediately upon the demise of the current Head of the Royal House of Romania, whichever is sooner and at such a time shall enter the order of succession to the Headship of the Royal House of Romania, with full entitlement upon succeeding.

In the annex to the document the line of succession was added:

We, Michael I, By virtue of Our Sovereign authority as Head of the Royal House of Romania and in keeping with Our duty to History and to the heirs of Our Family, By Our own free will Decree and make the following decision public:

A. The Line of Succession to the Throne and to the Headship of the Royal House of Romania is hereby set out:

1. HRH Crown Princess Margareta of Romania, Custodian of the Crown of Romania
2. HRH The Princess Elena of Romania
3. Nicholas de Roumanie Medforth-Mills (who shall become HRH Prince Nicholas of Romania on April 1, 2010)
4. Elisabeta Karina de Roumanie Medforth-Mills
5. HRH The Princess Irina of Romania
6. Michael de Roumanie Kreuger
7. Angelica de Roumanie Kreuger
8. HRH The Princess Sophia of Romania
9. Elisabeta Maria Biarneix
10. HRH The Princess Maria of Romania

B. In recognition of Romania’s accession to the European Union and the obligations that underpin it, and in particular the European Convention on Human Rights, We hereby modify the principles and practice of Salic law, by exclusive male descent, which shall no longer be used in terms of determining the Succession to the Throne and to the Headship of the Royal House of Romania.

C. The Romanian Crown shall pass from the Head of the Royal House to the first male issue and, in absence of a male issue, to the subsequent female issue.

D. In the absence of direct descendants, the Crown shall be inherited by the eldest brother and,in the absence of one, by the eldest sister of the Head of the Royal House.

E. The place of the persons mentioned at paragraph D,if they are deceased,is occupied by their descendants, whereby male siblings shall take precedence.

F. The Line of Succession may be modified by the Head of the Royal House of Romania.

The line of succession to the throne shall be separated from the list of members of the Royal House of Romania,as evident in Article 1 of this Statute.

We Command Our heirs to obey this Annexe now and beyond Our death, as they represent Our final wish.
As such, We have signed the current Annexe,

Michael I,

Today, December 30, 2007, The Savarsin Castle, Romania


Some posters, like me, see this as an unilateral act with an unclear legal base. Moreover the red persons show that the King loves scrapping in his own line of succession: it is only nine years old and already 40% of the original successors have been removed.

It also shows that the King loves changing his mind. He created his own grandson a Prince of Romania, with the style of a Royal Highness and a successor. In the meantime this has already been revoked.

It also shows that the King is not consequent. He backs the changes in the Salic Law with a reference to the European Convention on Human Rights. But only half: male successors still have a preference above female successors, while the ECHR prohibits discrimination in gender.

It also shows that the King is not only dictatorial by life (as the examples above show) but also tries to be dictatorial beyond his life. He commands his Heirs "to obey this Annexe now and beyond Our death, as they represent Our final wish." He himself had no problem at all with changing rules to his very own pleasure...

What Michael did was -in essence- understandable (allowing his daughters to be successors) but the execution was poor.
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  #1451  
Old 08-21-2016, 01:07 PM
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The document of 2007 has a value for the family but has nothing to do with dynastic rights.
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  #1452  
Old 08-21-2016, 01:14 PM
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Out of interest in regards to King Michael 'loving to change his mind', could it be argued after he dies that this was unfair or made during a period without clear mind? I mean it would surely be hard for Margareta to argue she saw no need for Nicholas to loose his rights only to later reinstate them?
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  #1453  
Old 08-21-2016, 04:08 PM
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That will be certainly the case for the supporters of the miguelist line.
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  #1454  
Old 08-21-2016, 04:20 PM
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That will be certainly the case for the supporters of the miguelist line.
Michaelist.

The miguelist line is in the House of Portugal.

:-)
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  #1455  
Old 08-21-2016, 04:37 PM
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The document of 2007 has a value for the family but has nothing to do with dynastic rights.
The Royal Family are the dynasts of Romania, so whatever point attempted made there, is moot.
The German Hohenzollern family, who were in line to inherit in the absence of any Romanian heirs, were removed from any function at the abolition of the monarchy, line of succession and constitution in 1947 and will never be restored, nor do they wish to be.

As long as there is a Royal Family in Romania, therein lies the only basis for a resurrected monarchy. Advocating anything else is a sure way of ensuring that the monarchy will never return.
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  #1456  
Old 08-21-2016, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
The document of 2007 has a value for the family but has nothing to do with dynastic rights.
That is very interesting because you wrote on 8 November 2011 in the thread "Succession to the Romanian Throne" the following:

Quote:
The Succession to the Romanian Throne is very clear:

http://www.familiaregala.ro/uploads/...entalRules.pdf
It seems as though the Fundamental Rules are not only for the Royal Family and do indeed have to do with dynastic rights.
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  #1457  
Old 08-21-2016, 06:47 PM
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The King expressed a very clear wish for the changing of the Laws of the House in 2007 but that would remain a decision only for the Family. No Restoration of Monarchy happened and no Parliament in a restored Monarchy decided anything.
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  #1458  
Old 08-22-2016, 08:16 AM
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There is no need to rehash the Romanian succession debate each and every time a news item about Nicholas Medforth Mills shows up.

Regard this post as a notification of future deletions of repetative posts.
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  #1459  
Old 08-22-2016, 09:52 AM
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I think the discussion that is highlighted in the recent press article shared by Benjamin regarding current thoughts on Nicholas Michael de Roumanie Medforth-Mills, only serves to highlight that the question mark will remain over this man's possible succession in the future. If the topic can't be discussed in this thread perhaps we need another thread on the question mark of Nicholas' future as mentioned in the press?
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  #1460  
Old 08-22-2016, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Dalriada View Post
I think the discussion that is highlighted in the recent press article shared by Benjamin regarding current thoughts on Nicholas Michael de Roumanie Medforth-Mills, only serves to highlight that the question mark will remain over this man's possible succession in the future. If the topic can't be discussed in this thread perhaps we need another thread on the question mark of Nicholas' future as mentioned in the press?
I'm fairly sure Marengos point wasn't to shut down any questions of Nicholas and the line of succession / place in the Royal Family, but that the constant digressions into what belongs in the 'line of succession to the Romanian throne' or 'restoration of the monarchy in Romania'-threads, should be avoided.
The interest caused with every news article referring to Nicholas M-M, clearly highlight that he is very much still at the center of interest, and by most with insight into the subject matter, seen as part of the future of the Royal House and monarchical cause in Romania.

It's also a matter for both this thread and most others in this section of the forums, that one should be able to link news or share updates without the constant rehashing of the same debate about the future of the monarchy. Although he is seen as an integral, future part of the Royal Family by most, those specific debatable points belong in other parts of the forums :)
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