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  #901  
Old 08-12-2015, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Ceallach View Post
If this was all over gambling then I agree pay the debts, send him to rehab, tighten the reins, discipline him, keep him busy but to throw it all away over this is overkill. I think they have been quick to judge and punish. They really need to touch base with other royal families, cause the stories they could tell. Michael has 13 descendants and 7 are presently stripped of succession and possibly all related to gambling. Irina was hosting gambling ie cockfighting and he tossed out her children (Michael, Angelica) and great-grandchildren (Kohen, Courtney, Diana) too. Sophie had been stripped and reinstated and I am not sure how that affected her daughter. So possibly only 4 of 13 have never been stripped of succession. When they were stripped, Michael and Angelica admitted they hadn't had contact in years with their grandfather. Elena was informed by letter of her son being stripped of succession and titles. It seems ridiculous at this point if this is all that this is about. This seems to be a very dysfunctional fractured family and that what was really needed was a family intervention. When was the last time all of them were actually together? This has also been handled badly from the PR point of view too.

People with gambling debts do have a tendency to get involved with and in the hands of people that the head of a royal family shouldn't associate themselves with.


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  #902  
Old 08-12-2015, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post

So many royals have played in casinos. So many royals have made debts. If it was all about this, just pay the debts (as Royal House) and tighten the reins and discipline Nicholas.
In my understanding, the King's letter made specific reference to the requirements for belonging to the Romanian Royal House.
Romania is a country with many problems and the letter emphasised the need for modesty and moral values.
It would be awkward to put a gambler in contact with the poor and socially challenged and maintain credibility.
You quickly suggest the Royal House to cover gambling debts. Are you informed on their financial resources before making such firm statements?
The Romanian Government grants an annuity to King Michael as to all former rulers. Do you think they would if he was rich?
If the info on the gambling habits is accurate, I fully sympathise with the King's point of view.
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  #903  
Old 08-12-2015, 10:07 AM
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Gambling is an addiction. To deal with an addiction by taking away that person's job, home, country, purpose, future and possibly family while publicly admonishing them for being immoral, immodest, etc does not seem helpful for Nicholas who is their family. A reformed addict, someone who has overcome something and turned their life around, can be a good person to help others and relate to their difficulties and encourage them. They said it was yet scandalous and they were trying to prevent a scandal and that he owed casinos. In time the debt can be paid and repaid by Nicholas. A broken relationship, family, man; they are much harder to fix.
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  #904  
Old 08-12-2015, 10:12 AM
eya eya is offline
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post


So many royals have played in casinos. So many royals have made debts. If it was all about this, just pay the debts (as Royal House) and tighten the reins and discipline Nicholas.
And how do you propose to do this? His pull the ear and put them punishment to be good boy?
Nicolae played and lost the position(if is true). King Mihai took the most difficult but correct decision. As it might cost the monarchy the King first of all knows this
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  #905  
Old 08-12-2015, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Imagine that Queen Elizabeth II had stripped her grandson Harry because he was caught binge drinking with a Nazi-uniform? It is in the same category, what are we talking about? Cockfighting (a cruel sport indeed but royals shoot animals all over the world...).

Big difference is, no matter how wrong you or i think their actions were: what P.Harry did was not illegal, what then P.Irina did was in the area...
She didn't just attend some cockfight, but she was one of a number of people who organized gambling on cockfights in an country were that's illegal.
I can well imagine K.Mihai was not thrilled about that as these activities do not reflect well on a family reestablishing their name and fame
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  #906  
Old 08-12-2015, 10:19 AM
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Imagine that Queen Elizabeth II had stripped her grandson Harry because he was caught binge drinking with a Nazi-uniform? It is in the same category, what are we talking about? Cockfighting (a cruel sport indeed but royals shoot animals all over the world...).
I can understand what you are saying here, Duc. However, the Romanian royal family need to show themselves as completely irreproachable, without scandal, no laws broken (re: cockfighting) of high standing, good morals, etc (as was inferred in King Michael's statement). In the hopes of a restoration, King Michael will have needed to take immediate and strong action in order to maintain such morality etc. In other words, they are in a less "stable" situation that, say, the British royal family.

To that end, I can understand King Michael's decision, and would feel disappointed in Nicolae if there are these elements in his life which seem at odds with the image I and others have built up of him.

I say all this only on the assumption that the gambling etc is true and we must remember that it hasn't yet been confirmed.
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  #907  
Old 08-12-2015, 12:36 PM
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Petition online for young Nicholas to get back his role/titles he had until the beginning of august:

PNTCD – PETITIE ONLINE: ”DORIM: PRINTUL NICOLAE SA FIE RECUNOSCUT ALTETA REGALA A ROMANIEI”
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  #908  
Old 08-12-2015, 12:38 PM
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The gambling story has nothing to do with facts!
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  #909  
Old 08-12-2015, 12:40 PM
eya eya is offline
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But the story Cory is that we don't know the facts.
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  #910  
Old 08-12-2015, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Cory View Post
The gambling story has nothing to do with facts!
I hope not, but I think that similar ugly stories of possible reasons will come out more and more. Especially if there has been some people who have wanted Nicholas out of the line of succession.

I have read many articles both in english and translated from romanian. There has been written that the Royal Family of Romania has serious imago problem. Crown princess Margarita has done some good work, but she can't really talk with people. And that Prince Radu is the one who steers the royal family nowadays and has a lot of power at the family, and that he isn't liked at all. And that Margarita and Radu are seen as very old-fashioned people who are not living in this time. And that Nicholas was the only royal who really had a contact with the common Romanian people.
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  #911  
Old 08-12-2015, 12:45 PM
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The facts are quite clear: The King had a meeting with his eldest daughter and her husband and few advisers and did not invite young Nicholas and his mother Princess Elena at this meeting. The only hope for the future of the Family was stripped of his titles ans place in the Line wanted by the King because he was considered to be fit to be Head of the Family in the future. The Family explained everything was about prevention not punishement so...
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  #912  
Old 08-12-2015, 12:47 PM
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The difference between King Michael and other Sovereigns, even if one of the ruling Sovereigns really want to remove one of the successors, he/she simply can not do so. In almost all cases an Act of Parliament is needed.

For an example, let us take one of them, eeeeerrrmmmm, King Willem-Alexander of the Netherlands. Let us assume he wants to remove his brother from the line of succession. Then the Government has to offer a special Bill on behalf of the King to the two Chambers of Parliament, which will read this in a joint assembly and has to approve the proposed Bill with at least a 2/3rd majority. So that is quite a heavy procedure which illustrates the thought behind this: the lawmaker wants to ensure that the line of succession is never depending on the whim of the day or changed arbitrarily or unilaterally.

Let us take another example: in Belgium there is no such a provision in the Constitution. So there King Philippe can -in principle- do like King Michael: change things unilaterally. But Belgium is a constitutional monarchy: the King is inviolable, the ministers are accountable (art 88 of the Constitution). So that means that always and ever the Government needs to agree with the King and on its turn the Government is accountable before Parliament. With other words, King Philippe can do nothing without convincing arguments, an advice by constututional specialists, a willing Prime Minister and a backing by a majority in Parliament.

The official reason: Nicholas can not combine his future career with his membership of the Royal House. That seems a bit far-sought to me. When we look to some other monarchies, for an example the Netherlands, then we see that there (former) successors have fulltime jobs or their own companies even. The late Prince Friso was director of TNO Space and of Urenco (an uranium enrichment conglomerate). Prince Constantijn is special advisor to the European Commission on digital markets. Prince Maurits van Oranje-Nassau, Van Vollenhoven owns a company which gives strategic advices to businesses. Prince Bernhard van Oranje-Nassau, Van Vollenhoven owns a company which aims at global ICT-sourcing and has an holding in a real estate firm. Prince Pieter-Christiaan van Oranje-Nassau, Van Vollenhoven is a Major in the Royal Marechaussee (military police force) and Chairman of the Dutch Association of Security Managers. Prince Floris van Oranje-Nassau, Van Vollenhoven works as a senior analyst at KPMG Corporate Finances. Etc. Etc. None of them has been stripped of title or of their place in the line of succession because they pursued their own careers outside the Royal Firm...

It is very, very, very weird that Nicholas apparently did not see possibilities to combine both worlds. His Dutch cousins (the Orange-Nassaus and the Hohenzollerns share a lot of history) show that it can work. In a ruling monarchy even. So why not in a non-ruling monarchy?
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  #913  
Old 08-12-2015, 12:54 PM
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The official explanation is very weird. Nicholas was very involved in many projects in Romania and he said all the day he was ready to become King. It was not his decision but that of his grandfather, eldest aunt and her husband and the advisers of the King.
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  #914  
Old 08-12-2015, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The official reason: Nicholas can not combine his future career with his membership of the Royal House. That seems a bit far-sought to me. When we look to some other monarchies, for an example the Netherlands, then we see that there (former) successors have fulltime jobs or their own companies even. The late Prince Friso was director of TNO Space and of Urenco (an uranium enrichment conglomerate). Prince Constantijn is special advisor to the European Commission on digital markets. Prince Maurits van Oranje-Nassau, Van Vollenhoven owns a company which gives strategic advices to businesses. Prince Bernhard van Oranje-Nassau, Van Vollenhoven owns a company which aims at global ICT-sourcing and has an holding in a real estate firm. Prince Pieter-Christiaan van Oranje-Nassau, Van Vollenhoven is a Major in the Royal Marechaussee (military police force) and Chairman of the Dutch Association of Security Managers. Prince Pieter-Christiaan van Oranje-Nassau, Van Vollenhoven works as a senior analyst at KPMG Corporate Finances. Etc. Etc. None of them has been stripped of title or of their place in the line of succession because they pursued their own careers outside the Royal Firm...

It is very, very, very weird that Nicholas apparently did not see possibilities to combine both worlds. His Dutch cousins (the Orange-Nassaus and the Hohenzollerns share a lot of history) show that it can work. In a ruling monarchy even. So why not in a non-ruling monarchy?
Because this is the Royal Family of Romania, and they have their own policy and etiquette. Ioan-Luca Vlad, the advisor of the Royal Family said at an interview of Nicholas' exclusion:
- If you want to make yourself a trader, you can't be a member of the Royal family.
Ioan Luca Vlad, consilier al Casei Regale_ Principele Nicolae a fost chiar usurat de decizia Regelui Mihai _ Sentimentul de antreprenoriat e foarte greu de dezvoltat in cadrul Casei Regale - Esential - HotNews.ro
Translation
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  #915  
Old 08-12-2015, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
It is a rare occasion when I agree with Duc et Pair, but this time I do..

It is as tho' Queen Elizabeth II could arbitrarily remove the Duke of Cambridge from the succession. She CANNOT, because the succession is laid down by law, and not governed by the whim or will of ANY individual.
only parliament can change the succession
Michael is not bound by any Parliament or law ... this is a family issue dealing with succession of a headship.
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  #916  
Old 08-12-2015, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
Because this is the Royal Family of Romania, and they have their own policy and etiquette. Ioan-Luca Vlad, the advisor of the Royal Family said at an interview of Nicholas' exclusion:
- If you want to make yourself a trader, you can't be a member of the Royal family.
Ioan Luca Vlad, consilier al Casei Regale_ Principele Nicolae a fost chiar usurat de decizia Regelui Mihai _ Sentimentul de antreprenoriat e foarte greu de dezvoltat in cadrul Casei Regale - Esential - HotNews.ro
Translation
The thing is, as we are reminded here often, you can't compare monarchies with other monarchies and royal families with other royal families, they all have there own laws, etiquette and ways to do things.
Apparently having a "regular" job doesn't combine with the current Romanian royal family and it's useless to state that it does in other royal families
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  #917  
Old 08-12-2015, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Ceallach View Post
If this was all over gambling then I agree pay the debts, send him to rehab, tighten the reins, discipline him, keep him busy but to throw it all away over this is overkill. I think they have been quick to judge and punish. They really need to touch base with other royal families, cause the stories they could tell. Michael has 13 descendants and 7 are presently stripped of succession and possibly all related to gambling. Irina was hosting gambling ie cockfighting and he tossed out her children (Michael, Angelica) and great-grandchildren (Kohen, Courtney, Diana) too. Sophie had been stripped and reinstated and I am not sure how that affected her daughter. So possibly only 4 of 13 have never been stripped of succession. When they were stripped, Michael and Angelica admitted they hadn't had contact in years with their grandfather. Elena was informed by letter of her son being stripped of succession and titles. It seems ridiculous at this point if this is all that this is about. This seems to be a very dysfunctional fractured family and that what was really needed was a family intervention. When was the last time all of them were actually together? This has also been handled badly from the PR point of view too.
The story about Nicholas and gambling is pure speculation. The Bucharest newspapers are filled with speculative stories about what happened. I sincerely doubt it is true. Irina lost her title and rights because she plead guilty to a crime, and received a punishment. She and her husband did not take part in the cockfighting but they allowed their property to be used. She made and sold food. They are on probation, they are abiding by the rules, do what it is required for restitution, etc. It is unlikely Michael and Angelica have said anything about losing their rights. They have no interest in family history. Sophie's right was restored after her divorce. Elisabeta is also in line.
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  #918  
Old 08-12-2015, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by eya View Post
And how do you propose to do this? His pull the ear and put them punishment to be good boy?
Nicolae played and lost the position(if is true). King Mihai took the most difficult but correct decision. As it might cost the monarchy the King first of all knows this
gambling is not the issue. What happened did not happen overnight, and the King's decision was not made in haste.
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  #919  
Old 08-12-2015, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
The King gave his reason : lack of modesty and moral principles .
His way of living is not the one whished by King Michel.

Do we have proofs ?

Mrs M. Koening must be devasted .

that would Koenig :) and I am not devastated ... saddened, surprised, but not devastated.
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  #920  
Old 08-12-2015, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
Could this be possibly a dispute over a girlfriend or a woman (non-royal or someone who is very commoner) that the family thinks it isn't suitable for Nicholas?

NO. I asked that question and was told no.
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