Ferdinand I (1865-1927) and Marie of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha (1875-1938)

[Odette]

In Hannah Pakula's book "The last romantic" the only reference on GD Dmitri is when Ducky's husband GD Kyrill fancied himself head of the Romanovs in exile, while most thought GD Nicholas because of his experience and age deserved the position more. Others thought that GD Dmitri because of his involvment in the murder of Rasputin deserved more that just loyalist gratitude. Marie did not take sides, although her devotion to Ducky may have made her think GD Kirill's claim was valid.

 

[Cory]

Missy admired a lot her aunt Ella and Ella had taken care of Grand Duke Dimitri and Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna.

Ella loved them and she did her best taking into account Serge didn't really help her in the education of Paul's children (from the first marriage).

In her book Pakula wrote different things which are not based on documents but rather suppositions(especially Missy's private life).

It is an interesting book but not a scientific one.

A scientific book about a Queen is a history book.Pakula's book could hardly be considered as such.

 

[Russophile]

Missy admired a lot her aunt Ella and Ella had taken care of Grand Duke Dimitri and Grand Duchess Maria Pavlovna.

According to Marie the younger Ella didn't do a good job of it.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

My dear Russo and Odette,

Thanks for responding. I am enjoying the link you provided, Russo, but so far, it makes no mention about Dmitri. If you get a chance, read the section on the Tsar. It shows that Marie liked Nicky but her description of Alicky demonstrates little warmth and affection for her. It appears that most of Alicky's cousins felt the same way.

Odette, what is the subject of "The Last Romantic?" Is it about Ducky?

 

[Russophile]

My dear Russo and Odette,

Thanks for responding. I am enjoying the link you provided, Russo, but so far, it makes no mention about Dmitri. If you get a chance, read the section on the Tsar. It shows that Marie liked Nicky but her description of Alicky demonstrates little warmth and affection for her. It appears that most of Alicky's cousins felt the same way.

I need to re-read that. Thanks for reminding me. I read it like last year.

Odette, what is the subject of "The Last Romantic?" Is it about Ducky?

No, that's the bio. Hannah Pakula did on Marie. I have heard it's very very good. Unforunately, my library does not carry it.
Ducky's book is this one. It's a good read.
Amazon.com: A Fatal Passion: The Story of the Uncrowned Last Empress of Russia (9780679424000): michael john sullivan: Books

 

[Russophile]

In her book Pakula wrote different things which are not based on documents but rather suppositions(especially Missy's private life).

WEll that's what a biographer does, write about the subject's private life. There was a lot of good Queen Marie did for Romania. She also was a very passionate woman and a couple of her children were products of that passion.

 

[Odette]

My dear Russo and Odette,

Thanks for responding. I am enjoying the link you provided, Russo, but so far, it makes no mention about Dmitri. If you get a chance, read the section on the Tsar. It shows that Marie liked Nicky but her description of Alicky demonstrates little warmth and affection for her. It appears that most of Alicky's cousins felt the same way.

Odette, what is the subject of "The Last Romantic?" Is it about Ducky?

It is about Marie of Romania. Great read!

 

[Russophile]

It is an interesting book but not a scientific one.

Well Marie was not a scientific project. She was a human being. I have not read the book so I cannot comment on it's accuracy. However if it presents her fairly and factually, then I will be okay with that.

 

[Odette]

A scientific book about a Queen is a history book.Pakula's book could hardly be considered as such.

Pakula had access to Marie's diaries which dated back to 1914 till 1938. Those were kept in the Archives of the Casa Regala in Bucharest and were supposed to be published someday. By permission of HM the Queen Elizabeth II Pakula had access and permission to publish portions of letters kept in the Royal Archives at Windsor Castle, Princess Ileana gave Pakula copies of portions of the letters. The Prince of Hohenloe-Langenburg allowed Pakula to read and publish letters written to his grandmother HRH Alexandra. HRH the Prince of Hohenzollern Sigmaringen gave Pakula permission to research and publish material found at Schloss Singmaringen and the list goes on...
Based on the above (partial list of those who co operated with Pakula) I would venture to say this is as scientific a biography as it could be.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

Russo my dear,

I am enjoying the link to Queen Marie. Of particular interest to me is the Indianapolis Columbia Club dinner program from the Queen's 1926 tour of the United States. I lived in Indianapolis in the 80s when I worked for the Supreme Court of Indiana and was a member of the Columbia Club. If you have never been to the Circle City, the Columbia Club is an imposing old building, right on the circle, and very impressive looking on the inside. It would have been the best possible place to host visiting royalty in the city at that time.

 

[Russophile]

Russo my dear,

I am enjoying the link to Queen Marie. Of particular interest to me is the Indianapolis Columbia Club dinner program from the Queen's 1926 tour of the United States. I lived in Indianapolis in the 80s when I worked for the Supreme Court of Indiana and was a member of the Columbia Club. If you have never been to the Circle City, the Columbia Club is an imposing old building, right on the circle, and very impressive looking on the inside. It would have been the best possible place to host visiting royalty in the city at that time.

Alas! We only went to NOtre Dame when we were in Indianapolis back in 2006. We didn't get to see much of the area besides that. It was a Jaycee event and we were kept busy with seminars. Mr. Russo and I should be taking a trip out to Chicago later this year for a business class anything Queen Marie-ish we should see? Also, if you get out this way, we have Maryhill museum (I tout this all the time!) Maryhill Museum of Art
and the Embassy Suites have the Queen Marie Ballroom (Embassy Suites Hotel Portland-Downtown) that I see just about on a regular basis, Regence has seminars there. It used to be the Multnomah Hotel. Here's a little history about it.
Multnomahhotel

 

[EmpressRouge]

Russo my dear,

I am enjoying the link to Queen Marie. Of particular interest to me is the Indianapolis Columbia Club dinner program from the Queen's 1926 tour of the United States. I lived in Indianapolis in the 80s when I worked for the Supreme Court of Indiana and was a member of the Columbia Club. If you have never been to the Circle City, the Columbia Club is an imposing old building, right on the circle, and very impressive looking on the inside. It would have been the best possible place to host visiting royalty in the city at that time.

Wow, I lived in the Indy metro area for several years and went to high school and college in Indiana. Never realized such a glamorous and royal figure like Queen Marie stopped by! And to think I usually explain to foreigners that Indiana is just north of Kentucky of KFC fame.
Unfortunately, I went to the Columbia Club website and in their "About Us" video, they never mention Queen Marie visiting, just many "politicians."
Welcome to the Columbia Club
But a facebook discussion page does
Columbia Club Building History | Facebook

And that dinner program is absolutely fascinating!
http://www.tkinter.smig.net/QueenMarie/ColumbiaClub/index.htm

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

Alas! We only went to NOtre Dame when we were in Indianapolis back in 2006. We didn't get to see much of the area besides that. It was a Jaycee event and we were kept busy with seminars. Mr. Russo and I should be taking a trip out to Chicago later this year for a business class anything Queen Marie-ish we should see? Also, if you get out this way, we have Maryhill museum (I tout this all the time!) Maryhill Museum of Art
and the Embassy Suites have the Queen Marie Ballroom (Embassy Suites Hotel Portland-Downtown) that I see just about on a regular basis, Regence has seminars there. It used to be the Multnomah Hotel. Here's a little history about it.
Multnomahhotel

Russo my dear,

Thank you for the links. I have heard about Maryhill before and I would love to have an opportunity to visit it if and when I get out to your wonderful neck of the woods. I have never had an opportunity to see the Pacific Northwest and would love to go there. I cannot think of any links between Queen Marie and Chicago but if I discover something, I will be sure to let you know.

If you are interested, Princess Diana was at the Drake Hotel for some function a short time before she was killed. I don't know if the hotel mentions that on site. And if you get to Buckingham Fountain, you will be near the Queen's Landing which is a dock directly east of the fountain on Lake Michigan. This is to commemorate Queen Elizabeth II's visit to Chicago in 1957.

Wow, I lived in the Indy metro area for several years and went to high school and college in Indiana. Never realized such a glamorous and royal figure like Queen Marie stopped by! And to think I usually explain to foreigners that Indiana is just north of Kentucky of KFC fame.
Unfortunately, I went to the Columbia Club website and in their "About Us" video, they never mention Queen Marie visiting, just many "politicians."
Welcome to the Columbia Club
But a facebook discussion page does
Columbia Club Building History | Facebook

And that dinner program is absolutely fascinating!

My dear Empress Rouge,

Thanks for the links to the Columbia Club. I was a member for about 5 years before I moved back near Chicago and never knew about any royal visitors to the Club. Before I joined (because they needed new and young blood), the CC had a reputation as being for stodgy old men. They did make up most of the members but it was a great place to eat and drink and I even captained a rowing team under the Club's sponsorship.

 

[IloveCP]

Is it true that Marie had a huge ego?

 

[EmpressRouge]

My dear Empress Rouge,

Thanks for the links to the Columbia Club. I was a member for about 5 years before I moved back near Chicago and never knew about any royal visitors to the Club. Before I joined (because they needed new and young blood), the CC had a reputation as being for stodgy old men. They did make up most of the members but it was a great place to eat and drink and I even captained a rowing team under the Club's sponsorship.

Actually, I have a friend from high school who's having her wedding reception at the Columbia Club this summer, that's how I first heard about the Columbia Club's existence. Not a close friend (more of a acquaintance) so I'm not invited, but you can find out a lot through facebook and couples' wedding websites these days . Wonder if she will realize the Queen of Romania once walked through those same halls.

 

[Warren]

Is it true that Marie had a huge ego?

More narcissism than ego...

Grand Duchess Marie of Russia [Maria Pavlovna the Younger] related: "She was sincere in everything she did and said...Even in her childish vanity she was sincere, the vanity of a very beautiful woman. She admired herself enormously and often when speaking about herself she would sound as if it were some other supremely beautiful and fascinating creature she was seeing and describing."

"No one who knew Marie well was surprised when a young relative discovered a piece of paper lying on a table in Cotraceni Palace that read, "Marie of Roumania - one of the most wonderful women in the world. A woman like that is born once in a century." The handwriting was unmistakably that of the Queen herself.

"Marie was, as one friend expressed it, "the most out of the ordinary example of narcissism" he had ever encountered. But, he explained, "her vanity was counter-balanced by such a naive simplicity that it rarely irritated people, only made them smile, often with a kind of affectionate indulgence."

"I never met a woman who could talk so much about herself and so frankly, and yet with such freedom from any disagreeable egotism," said one American visitor to the palace. "She is always so clever and amusing in her accounts of herself that one forgets that it is the first person of whom she is talking.""

From Hanna Pakula's "The Last Romantic", paperback p 267

 

[Cory]

Missy liked to speak about herself in a very sincere way.

 

[Zonk]

I have only read Born to Rule which discussed Marie (and other Queen Victoria granddaughters). You guys have definitely peaked my interest in looking for the Hannah Pakula book. I read her book on Victoria, Empress of Germany.

 

[Warren]

Queen Marie is far more colourful - and had greater impact on her adopted country - than Vicky.
As a result, I found 'The Last Romantic' much more interesting than 'An Uncommon Woman'. Achievements with flair as opposed to opportunities lost.
Both had disastrous eldest sons though...

 

[Cory]

Missy was not responsible for the education of the future Carol II because der Onkel (Carol I) wanted to take care of that.

 

[Warren]

I wasn't assigning blame, I was pointing out what they had in common.

 

[Cory]

Missy never liked Willy (Vicky's eldest son) and she preferred Nicky (Nicholas II).

 

[Russophile]

Missy never liked Willy (Vicky's eldest son) and she preferred Nicky (Nicholas II).

NOBODY liked Willy.
Well, except Agusta.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

Marie loved Eastwell in Kent but disliked London. She also lived at Clarence House but did not enjoy her stay there, except she liked to visit the gardens at Buckingham Palace. However, it was so dirty in London that their clothes would be covered in soot when they returned home from the parks and gardens.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

Does anyone know the color of King Ferdinand's eyes? I ask this because I finished reading the serialization of Queen Marie's biography, My Story of My Life and My Life as Crown Princess which ran in the Saturday Evening Post. Marie is quite descriptive of her eyes (blue) and those of her children, except for Mircea. The color of his eyes is not mentioned.

If Ferdinand had blue eyes, then all of Marie's children should have had blue eyes, as blue eyed parents can only pass on the recessive gene for their children's eye color. I should know, being one of seven children, all blue eyed, from two blue eyed parents. I assume Stirbey had brown eyes -- if Mircea had brown eyes, but Ferdinand had blue eyes, then Marie had to have been unfaithful. Scandalo!

 

[Odette]

Mircea died when he was 4 from typhoid. Prince Barbo Stirbey who was widely rumoured to be Marie's lover kept constant vigil in the little boy's room with Marie.
Accrording to the Queen Prince Stirbey was the one to lift the little boy's head while she passed the chain and cross around his neck. After the bombing of the Cotroceni Palace Marie returned there with Prince Stirbey, and again according to her...We were not supposed to say we were there for the last time. The hardest parting she wrote was for her to go to her son's grave. "Barbo has promised to come to be with me. Barbo who more than any other shared with me the sorrow and pain and joy the parting from my poor little grave"....
She goes on...The last person to say goodbye to was Prince Stirbey who was returning to be with the King. " As we clasped hands we wondered when and where we would meet again. There were no words with which to express our despair"...
I suppose it is safe to draw our own conclusions.
However even Ileana born in 1909 was born two years after Prince Stirbey became an intimate friend and he was rumoured to be the father of both her and Baby Mircea, although Stirbey's concern for Ileana was not the same as the one he showed for the baby.
I am sorry I have no clue what colour eyes K Ferdinand had. The only mention was that his eyes were so protruding his parents had asked to be bandaged when he was a baby to "correct" the problem...

 

[Cory]

Prince Barbu Stirbey was a very close friend both to Queen Maria and to King Ferdinand and there is no evidence at all he had an affair with the Queen.

 

[Odette]

We can all read the books and interpret them any way we want. However Marie made no effort to hide anything and her relationship with the Prince was widely known. The Queen was a free spirited woman and she never tried to shield herself from gossip and rumours.
Her marriage to Ferdinand was not a love match.
However she worked very hard for her adopted country and this no one can dispute.

 

[Cory]

The fact Queen Maria spoke so much about her friendship with Prince Barbu Stirbey is not a proof of an affair.

 

[Vasillisos Markos]

It is not proof positive of an affair and unless the parties involved admit to having an affair, or there is DNA evidence showing Barbey was the father, then of course it is mere speculation on the part of historians and others.

However, as dear Odette sets forth, Queen Marie's moving description of being at the grave with Barbey shows that he was intimately involved and deeply moved by the child's death, which suggests that he may have been the father and probably was. If so, it does not lessen either person in my eyes.