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  #381  
Old 05-23-2012, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
The christening didn't change my opinion of Chris, he looks grimy, rugged and arrogant.
I know looks aren't everything but I find him actively unattractive. There's something else that bothers me about him but I can't put my finger on it. I think this relationship will go the way of the last one.

Hmm...Princess Madeleine, Mrs. O'Neill. Yeah, I don't see that happening.
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Old 05-23-2012, 02:35 PM
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That three of the king's sisters lost their royal status when they got married depended on the fact that they were not in the line of succession, Madeleine is (and presumably her children will be too) and will be whether she has a royal title or not.
It is just my personal opinion that it is highly likely Madeleine will give up her royal status, I didn't say she has to. I never said she will be excluded from the line of succession and/or her children. We will see what the future brings.
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  #383  
Old 05-23-2012, 02:41 PM
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I'm not sure if I think Chris would be great husband material for Maddy, but I do have the impression from what I've seen, that he's not an attention seeker or gold digger, and no matter what else one thinks of him, those two things are a positive. Although I would wager that since Chris does not smile brightly for the cameras, that his sometimes rather taciturn face has contributed to some dislike and comments of "creepiness".

As far as looks go, he may not be a hunk, but beard stubble is not the faux pas it was decades ago. Some people like the pretty boy smooth look, and some like the unshaven "rugged" look for their men, so that's really just a matter of taste in my opinion. I don't even think it's especially indicative of personality or psyche. Actually, I'd wager Chris wears the stubble because he has a rather "full" face and the stubble makes it appear less "full".

Do I wish he'd smile for the camera? Maybe just once it would be nice, but I much prefer the way he is to Sofia's literal performances in front of the cameras.
  #384  
Old 05-23-2012, 03:24 PM
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thikon2, I share your impression of Chris O'Neill from the christening as well as the conclusions you're drawing - quite perfectly worded.
  #385  
Old 05-23-2012, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Kit View Post
It is just my personal opinion that it is highly likely Madeleine will give up her royal status, I didn't say she has to. I never said she will be excluded from the line of succession and/or her children. We will see what the future brings.
I don't think the choice is entirely hers to make, it's the king who decides what status members of the royal family will have and as Madeleine was to keep her royal status if she was to marry Jonas, why would she have changed her mind now? If she plans to continue working for the World Childhood Fundation in the future, a HRH title will be seen as an advantage for her to get more media attention for her work and eventual other charities she is/will be supporting.
  #386  
Old 05-23-2012, 04:47 PM
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As I said we will say what the future brings. Still I don't think Chris will accept the title of Duke if he really marries Madeleine. That is the main reason why I find it highly likely that Madeleine could give up her royal status. But that is just speculation on my part :-)
  #387  
Old 05-23-2012, 07:19 PM
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Wouldn't Chris have to relinquish his U.S. citizenship to take a title? I know the American actress Jamie Lee Curtis' husband, Christopher Guest, is a British baron so she is a baroness by marriage but not in her own right. I know that the U.S. Constitution prevents members of the government from accepting titles, but I don't know what the law is regarding regular citizens.
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  #388  
Old 05-23-2012, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Baroness of Books View Post
I know that the U.S. Constitution prevents members of the government from accepting titles, but I don't know what the law is regarding regular citizens.
As far as I can remember from school (I'm amazed I remember anything) titles are not recognized in America. A citizen can hold an "honorary" title but it carries no "status". The founding fathers wanted no class distinctions in the new republic.
  #389  
Old 05-23-2012, 08:49 PM
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When I became an American citizen my application paperwork said I would have to relinquish any titles I had.
  #390  
Old 05-23-2012, 08:50 PM
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As far as I can remember from school (I'm amazed I remember anything) titles are not recognized in America. A citizen can hold an "honorary" title but it carries no "status". The founding fathers wanted no class distinctions in the new republic.
According to Titles of Nobility Amendment proposed in 1810 (the so-called missing 13th Amendment), "If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive or retain, any title of nobility or honour, or shall, without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them."
It should be noted, however, that the validity of this amendment's ratification is doubted and has not been upheld by any court within the United States.

A provision in Article 1, Section 9, Clause 8 of the US Constitution - Title of Nobility Clause - states: "No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States: and no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state."
  #391  
Old 05-23-2012, 08:56 PM
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When I became an American citizen my application paperwork said I would have to relinquish any titles I had.
That is in accordance with Section 1448 of the United States Constition which requires aliens applying for citizenship to renounce of titles of nobility:
"In case the person petitioning for naturalization has borne any hereditary title, or has been of any of the orders of nobility in any foreign state, the petitioner shall ... make ... an express renunciation of such title or order of nobility, and such renunciation shall be recorded in the court as part of the proceedings."
  #392  
Old 05-23-2012, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Baroness of Books View Post
Wouldn't Chris have to relinquish his U.S. citizenship to take a title? I know the American actress Jamie Lee Curtis' husband, Christopher Guest, is a British baron so she is a baroness by marriage but not in her own right. I know that the U.S. Constitution prevents members of the government from accepting titles, but I don't know what the law is regarding regular citizens.
But Chris wouldnt be getting a title of his own. By courtesy he would become duke of Madeleines duchy without the HRH, at least that is what what announced for Jonas. Chris would be in the same situation as Jamie Lee.
  #393  
Old 05-23-2012, 09:39 PM
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According to Titles of Nobility Amendment proposed in 1810 (the so-called missing 13th Amendment), "If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive or retain, any title of nobility or honour, or shall, without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them."
It should be noted, however, that the validity of this amendment's ratification is doubted and has not been upheld by any court within the United States.

A provision in Article 1, Section 9, Clause 8 of the US Constitution - Title of Nobility Clause - states: "No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States: and no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state."
Presumably they exempt Papal titles from this since Rose Kenendy was created a Papal Countess and she certainly never gave up her citizenship.
  #394  
Old 05-23-2012, 09:45 PM
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Presumably they exempt Papal titles from this since Rose Kenendy was created a Papal Countess and she certainly never gave up her citizenship.
Well, as I said the Titles of Nobility Amendment was never fully ratified. As for the Title of Nobility Clause, it only deals with people holding elective office. In addition, a permission of the Congress might have been obtained.

In essence, I don't see any law in the United States Constitution that would prohibit Chris from becoming a Prince of Sweden, if the King should feel the need to grant him that title. Besides, I would imagine a permission from the Congress would have been extremely easy to obtain.
  #395  
Old 05-23-2012, 09:54 PM
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Well, as I said the Titles of Nobility Amendment was never fully ratified. As for the Title of Nobility Clause, it only deals with people holding elective office. In addition, a permission of the Congress might have been obtained.

In essence, I don't see any law in the United States Constitution that would prohibit Chris from becoming a Prince of Sweden, if the King should feel the need to grant him that title. Besides, I would imagine a permission from the Congress would have been extremely easy to obtain.
I think the King would do with Chris exactly what he announced would be done with Jonas which was to follow the Spanish example. Chris becomes duke of her duchy but does not become a prince or an HRH.
  #396  
Old 05-23-2012, 09:56 PM
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I think the King would do with Chris exactly what he announced would be done with Jonas which was to follow the Spanish example. Chris becomes duke of her duchy but does not become a prince or an HRH.
That is the most likely course of action.
However, should he wish to honour Madeleine's husband in such way, there doesn't appear to be a legal obstacle for that (at least, in the US constitution).
  #397  
Old 05-23-2012, 10:02 PM
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Presumably they exempt Papal titles from this since Rose Kenendy was created a Papal Countess and she certainly never gave up her citizenship.
That was never recognized by the United States Government.
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  #398  
Old 05-23-2012, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
I think the King would do with Chris exactly what he announced would be done with Jonas which was to follow the Spanish example. Chris becomes duke of her duchy but does not become a prince or an HRH.
Or if Chris prefers it, not giving him a title at all, while Madeleine keeps hers, as it has been the case with the husbands of Anne, Princess Royal.
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:30 PM
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That's probably the most likely scenario such as you mentioned with Princess Anne's husbands, as well as Ari Behn with Princess Marthe Louise of Norway, among others. That's if indeed they're headed to the altar!
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  #400  
Old 05-24-2012, 01:43 AM
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I don't understand why Chris or whomever Madeleine marries, should be given a title. Husbands of princesses usually don't receive one. I must say, it seems to me that Chris could care less if he receives a title or not.
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