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  #181  
Old 06-23-2011, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Iva View Post
I'm actually looking forward to see how they will handle this, since Sweden is the first european monarchy that will be in this position.
What do you mean by this? Other european monarchies have been in this position with a prince/princess marrying a foreigner...
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  #182  
Old 06-23-2011, 03:53 PM
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besides the discussion about the hypotetical titles and citizenship for chris, is it me or this relationship has a lot of marketing around it? i only has this feeling with all this. how strong is this relationship anyway?
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  #183  
Old 06-23-2011, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by FasterB
What do you mean by this? Other european monarchies have been in this position with a prince/princess marrying a foreigner...
I believe Iva meant men who marry in to family taking the females title (ie Daniel became Prince Daniel and he and Victoria's children take their title from her)...but pls correct me if that is not what was meant....that's just how I read it.
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  #184  
Old 06-24-2011, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by FasterB View Post
What do you mean by this? Other european monarchies have been in this position with a prince/princess marrying a foreigner...
MRSJ, is right. I'm not talking about foreigners, but about equal primogeniture and passing of titles also by female members of royal family. Simply the question is if Madeleine's future husband will be set on par with the born royals like Daniel is, or if he will "only" recieve Madeleine's ducal title, or if he won't recieve any title at all.
And since Swedish RF is the first one that has children old enough to solve this, I'm looking forward to how they'll decide.
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  #185  
Old 06-24-2011, 04:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Iva View Post
Simply the question is if Madeleine's future husband will be set on par with the born royals like Daniel is, or if he will "only" recieve Madeleine's ducal title, or if he won't recieve any title at all.
And since Swedish RF is the first one that has children old enough to solve this, I'm looking forward to how they'll decide.
As it was already announced at the time of Princess Madeleine's engagement to Jonas Bergström that he would receive Madeleine's ducal titles but not be styled Prince, I assume this would be the case with any other 'commoner' future husband of hers as well, so actually there isn't that much room for speculation.
In contrast to the questions which titles her children might receive, and whether her brother will be treated equally, meaning a future wife of his becoming Duchess and not Princess.
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  #186  
Old 06-24-2011, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iva
MRSJ, is right. I'm not talking about foreigners, but about equal primogeniture and passing of titles also by female members of royal family. Simply the question is if Madeleine's future husband will be set on par with the born royals like Daniel is, or if he will "only" recieve Madeleine's ducal title, or if he won't recieve any title at all.
And since Swedish RF is the first one that has children old enough to solve this, I'm looking forward to how they'll decide.
Actually, Belgium provides an example although they introduced equal primogeniture when the King's children were all grown. Still, Princess Astrid's children were given the titles Prince/Princess through her when the law was introduced. Her husband was only made a Prince a few years later. Wonder why.
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  #187  
Old 06-24-2011, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Boris View Post
As it was already announced at the time of Princess Madeleine's engagement to Jonas Bergström that he would receive Madeleine's ducal titles but not be styled Prince, I assume this would be the case with any other 'commoner' future husband of hers as well, so actually there isn't that much room for speculation.
I checked the engagement announcement one more time and there is no word about any titles Jonas should have recieved after the wedding, also no word from the court later, only the break up announcement in April 2010. As I remember the ducal title and no prince title was just a speculation among royalty followers, but I might be wrong and they simply deleted it in the meantime.

And thanks Esmerelda, I completly forgot about Astrid of Belgium and her family.
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  #188  
Old 06-24-2011, 05:53 AM
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But Svensk Damtidning wrote about the engagement:
Jonas Bergström, our new duke - but the court says he will keep his last name. The king made ​​Daniel a prince, but Jonas has to settle for the title of Duke. Was it disappointing?
- I am here because I'm in love with Madeleine, and for that we have engaged us. Duke title was a bonus, says Jonas - whose new title after the wedding Mr. Jonas Bergström, Duke of Hälsingland and Gästrikland.
Jonas blir vår nye hertig – men behåller efternamnet | Svensk Damtidning
Google Translate
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  #189  
Old 06-24-2011, 05:58 AM
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Thank you very much LadyFinn, I was just wondering if I'd be searching forever for this.
If I remember correctly, the then-PR chief Nina Eldh also confirmed to 'Expressen' writer Johan T. Lindwall.
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  #190  
Old 06-24-2011, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Esmerelda View Post
Actually, Belgium provides an example although they introduced equal primogeniture when the King's children were all grown. Still, Princess Astrid's children were given the titles Prince/Princess through her when the law was introduced. Her husband was only made a Prince a few years later. Wonder why.
Astrid's children were Archdukes/Archduchesses of Austria-Este through their father. In 1991 when the children already born were given the additional title of Prince(ss) of Belgium, this was probably due more for the reason that Philippe not having children yet and Amedeo possibly becoming heir... I don't think that if the succession to Belgium was as it is now but in 1991, that the Austria-Este kids would have Belgian titles, but thats just me.
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  #191  
Old 06-24-2011, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Esmerelda View Post
In case the US and Sweden ever go to war? I'm not sure, but I read somewhere on the forums that Maxima has dual citizenship. As Madeleine is not the heir, it may actually be less of a problem.

I think the bigger issue would be the citizenship of any potential children. If they are to be in the succession, my guess is that they will have to be solely Swedish. I don't know if they would have the option of claiming US citizenship as adults as they would likely have more normal lives if Victoria or Carl Philip have children.

US citizenship is not passed through either parent. It uses Jus Soli (territory) rather than Jus Sanguinis (parent's citizenship). So as long as the kids are not born in the US, there will be no citizenship question
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  #192  
Old 06-24-2011, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by American Dane

US citizenship is not passed through either parent. It uses Jus Soli (territory) rather than Jus Sanguinis (parent's citizenship). So as long as the kids are not born in the US, there will be no citizenship question
Oh, I see. So if you're born to American parents abroad, you wouldn't be a US citizen? Sorry to derail this thread.
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  #193  
Old 06-24-2011, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by American Dane View Post
US citizenship is not passed through either parent. It uses Jus Soli (territory) rather than Jus Sanguinis (parent's citizenship). So as long as the kids are not born in the US, there will be no citizenship question
The US law knows dual citizenship in rare cases it was of important interest for the person to keep connections with his or her roots. Eg. an author or artist who becomes American or has been one can keep his other passport if his work is deeply ingrained in his home culture and country. It's on application only.

I seriously doubt though that becoming a member of the Swedish Royal family is reason enough to keep the US passport on those grounds. But vice versa Madeleine surely could become a US citizen and keep her Swedish passport.
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  #194  
Old 06-24-2011, 07:01 AM
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Thank you very much LadyFinn, I was just wondering if I'd be searching forever for this.
If I remember correctly, the then-PR chief Nina Eldh also confirmed to 'Expressen' writer Johan T. Lindwall.
Thank you both! Learning something new every day.
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  #195  
Old 06-24-2011, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by American Dane

US citizenship is not passed through either parent. It uses Jus Soli (territory) rather than Jus Sanguinis (parent's citizenship). So as long as the kids are not born in the US, there will be no citizenship question
this is incorrect. If your parent is a legal US citizen when you're born then you are a citizen. If you are born in the US or on an air force base or such you are also a US Citizens....(ie John McCain). It's why my nieces who were born in Africa are still US citizens bc my sister in law is....

See below from US Immigration website-

If you were born to parents, at least one of whom was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, you automatically gained U.S. citizenship through the process of acquisition. It does not matter whether you were born on American soil or foreign. As well, if you have children, those children will also acquire U.S. citizenship through you at their birth.
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  #196  
Old 06-24-2011, 11:28 AM
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thanks for the citizenship info, and i also add that that includes the territories that US has.
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  #197  
Old 06-24-2011, 11:38 AM
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asuming they get to that point they might break up in 6 months who knows dont put the cart before the horse
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  #198  
Old 06-24-2011, 05:17 PM
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Let us see what happens, as this relationship may not work out yet, hopefully she has found "the one". I hope that Princess Madeleine and Chris will be happy together, which may or may not lead to marriage. The King has yet to meet Chris.
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  #199  
Old 06-24-2011, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Esmerelda View Post
In case the US and Sweden ever go to war? I'm not sure, but I read somewhere on the forums that Maxima has dual citizenship. As Madeleine is not the heir, it may actually be less of a problem.

I think the bigger issue would be the citizenship of any potential children. If they are to be in the succession, my guess is that they will have to be solely Swedish. I don't know if they would have the option of claiming US citizenship as adults as they would likely have more normal lives if Victoria or Carl Philip have children.
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Originally Posted by MRSJ View Post
this is incorrect. If your parent is a legal US citizen when you're born then you are a citizen. If you are born in the US or on an air force base or such you are also a US Citizens....(ie John McCain). It's why my nieces who were born in Africa are still US citizens bc my sister in law is....

See below from US Immigration website-

If you were born to parents, at least one of whom was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, you automatically gained U.S. citizenship through the process of acquisition. It does not matter whether you were born on American soil or foreign. As well, if you have children, those children will also acquire U.S. citizenship through you at their birth.

You're correct in my post being slightly incorrect, but since Madeline is the mother, citizenship through parents' always goes the maternal route, US or not in dual citizenship cases. It depends on how Sweden handles dual citizenship for a child of a Swedish mother/US father born in e.g. Africa.
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  #200  
Old 06-24-2011, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by American Dane

You're correct in my post being slightly incorrect, but since Madeline is the mother, citizenship through parents' always goes the maternal route, US or not in dual citizenship cases. It depends on how Sweden handles dual citizenship for a child of a Swedish mother/US father born in e.g. Africa.
Are you sure about this? I really thought in dual citizen cases the child can hold both citizenships as long as the countries allow it, and it's not through maternal side....interesting if true-
Also I was a bit wrong too, a child born outside US to any parent who is American isn't automatically a citizen until they file the paperwork. Then they're considered a US citizen....

Edit- See below- it's not maternal unless the child is illegitmate/ no father takes responsibility

For children born abroad since 14 November 1986 to a married couple consisting of one US citizen and one non-citizen, the American parent must have been "physically present" in the US for a total of at least five years prior to the birth of the child. Further, at least two years out of this five-year period must have been after the parent reached age 14 (e.g., no good if you lived in the US from birth till age five, then left the country never to return). From 24 December 1952 to 14 November 1986, the minimum requirement was ten years (five years of which had to have been after the parent's 14th birthday). If the father is a US citizen (and the mother is not), the child is a US citizen only if the father's paternity is formally established and if the father has agreed to support the child. (This more stringent requirement for an American father to pass along US citizenship to a foreign-born illegitimate child may seem discriminatory, but it was upheld by the Supreme Court in a 2001 case, Nguyen v. INS.)
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