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  #1941  
Old 06-16-2014, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Edward VIII was king and he chose to do the "selfish" thing by abdicating his throne in order to marry a woman his government didn't approve of.

Many royals have in the past entered into marriages that have resulted in them being excluded from the line of succession. 3 of the King's sisters entered into unequal marriages causing them and their descendants to be removed from the succession, and his other sister converted to Catholicism, causing her and her to descendants to be removed. If CP were to marry without permission or to have children out of wedlock then he'd be no more selfish than his aunts.
But they could only be selfish because someone else was willing to not be selfish and *did* think of the continuation of the reign...
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  #1942  
Old 06-16-2014, 05:54 PM
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Actually, all of CG's sisters married before he did, and only he married and had children in a way that continued the succession. In contrast, both of CP's sisters have already married and had children who are in the succession. If CP were to be "selfish" it would be less so than his aunts actions, as the succession is already ensured for the next generation (with both an heir and a spare), while when his aunts married there was no next generation (and of their aunts and uncles, only one had married equally, to the Crown Prince of Denmark, meaning that there was no previous generation fall-back).
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  #1943  
Old 06-16-2014, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
Can an person in line to a throne actually be selfish like that? Or is there a certain amount of "doing the right thing for the family" involved?
I mean: suppose both Estelle and Leonore stay "only child", then at some point the line to the swedish throne is going to be quite short, isn't it?
Doesn't CP have some sort of responsibility in this regard?
It's a question of "if's".

If Estelle stays an only child and for whatever reason looses her place in line of succession there will still be Madeleine and after her Leonore or Leonores possible siblings.

If Estelle stays and only child, stay the heir, marries, have 1 - 5 children then it does'n matter at all if CPs and Ss kids are in line of succession or not.

Personally I don't think CP will do anything without his parents okay. No matter if it's an official permission or an "OK son, marry her if you want to, but I really can't give you my okay as king". I just wrote that theoretically CP doesn't need anyones okay but Sofias if he wants to marry her. The question if he really would do it against everyone and everything is another question. But theoretically he could do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Actually, all of CG's sisters married before he did, and only he married and had children in a way that continued the succession. In contrast, both of CP's sisters have already married and had children who are in the succession. If CP were to be "selfish" it would be less so than his aunts actions, as the succession is already ensured for the next generation (with both an heir and a spare), while when his aunts married there was no next generation (and of their aunts and uncles, only one had married equally, to the Crown Prince of Denmark, meaning that there was no previous generation fall-back).
Have CGs sister ever really been in line of succession? I'm not sure of it. Could have one of them become Queen if they married right but CG married wrong? If not it doesn't matter when or whom they married.
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  #1944  
Old 06-17-2014, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by KitKat2006 View Post
Have CGs sister ever really been in line of succession? I'm not sure of it. Could have one of them become Queen if they married right but CG married wrong? If not it doesn't matter when or whom they married.
Before 1979 Sweden had strictly agnatic succession line, male only. CGs sisters have never been in the succession as they are all born before 1979.

The Constitution were changed in 1979 and became cognatic, the first born child to the King, regardless of gender, is the heir to the thron.

The abnormal about the change is that Parliament gave the Law retroactive Power and changed the heir to the thron from Carl Philip to Victoria.

In other countries, the Law takes effect from the next generation.
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  #1945  
Old 06-17-2014, 06:46 AM
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Thanks. I know about the change and the switch of Victoria and Carl Philip as the heir. But I wasn't sure if there maybe was a rule that females could be the heir if there was no male heir present. Obviously not and in that case it doesn't matter what CGs sister did. Marrying a prince or a commoner wouldn't have made any change regarding the succession line.
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- Voltaire (1694 - 1778) -

I'm a firm supporter of fair chance's.
Use your chance, Sofia. You're doing a fine job so far.
  #1946  
Old 06-17-2014, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomasine View Post
Before 1979 Sweden had strictly agnatic succession line, male only. CGs sisters have never been in the succession as they are all born before 1979.

The Constitution were changed in 1979 and became cognatic, the first born child to the King, regardless of gender, is the heir to the thron.

The abnormal about the change is that Parliament gave the Law retroactive Power and changed the heir to the thron from Carl Philip to Victoria.

In other countries, the Law takes effect from the next generation.
It was not so abnormal that the change of the succession law was retroactive. It was the same in Denmark; Margarethe was 14 or so, when the law was changed to allow her to became Queen. And I think the same is true for Luxembourg, when Princess Alexandra was included in the succession. I also heard that a change of succession rights was prepared in Great Britain in the 1980's. But then two Princes were born, and the matter didn't seem urgent anymore, as it would have changed nothing. But they probably would have changed the law if a girl had been born instead of William.

Back to Sophia: I think that it would be absolutely rediculous to deny her the Princess title after she was invited to private holidays with the King and Queen, and has been to all those important family events like weddings and christenings. If the King and Queen hadn't been ready to accept her, they wouldn't have let her attend any of these events. I am absolutely convinced that CP and their kids will stay in the line of succession in the case of a wedding with Sophia. (And the fact that I'm not fond of her doesn't matter all for them.)
  #1947  
Old 06-17-2014, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomasine View Post
The abnormal about the change is that Parliament gave the Law retroactive Power and changed the heir to the thron from Carl Philip to Victoria.

In other countries, the Law takes effect from the next generation.
Nearly every monarchy that has adopted gender-neutral succession has applied it to persons already born. In the Netherlands and Denmark, gender-neutral succession was implemented without any restriction. In Sweden, it affected all descendants of King Carl XVI Gustaf; in Belgium, all descendants of Prince Albert (later King Albert II); and in Luxembourg, all descendants of Grand Duke Henri. Only in Norway was gender-neutral succession limited to persons born after the change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
his other sister converted to Catholicism,
Princess Birgitta agreed to raise her children as Catholics, but she herself never converted.
  #1948  
Old 06-17-2014, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Nearly every monarchy that has adopted gender-neutral succession has applied it to persons already born. In the Netherlands and Denmark, gender-neutral succession was implemented without any restriction. In Sweden, it affected all descendants of King Carl XVI Gustaf; in Belgium, all descendants of Prince Albert (later King Albert II); and in Luxembourg, all descendants of Grand Duke Henri. Only in Norway was gender-neutral succession limited to persons born after the change.
But in the Netherlands and Belgium it has no immediate Effect as the first in line of succession did not change this was only the case in Denmark in 1953. It could have been affoided uin Sweden if they had changed the law before the birth of Carl Philip.
  #1949  
Old 06-17-2014, 06:10 PM
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But in the Netherlands and Belgium it has no immediate Effect as the first in line of succession did not change this was only the case in Denmark in 1953.
Yes, but the change applied to all in principle. In Belgium it had the immediate effect of replacing Prince Laurent with Princess Astrid as the successor to the then unmarried Prince Philippe.
  #1950  
Old 06-21-2014, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Tilia C. View Post
It was not so abnormal that the change of the succession law was retroactive. It was the same in Denmark; Margarethe was 14 or so, when the law was changed to allow her to became Queen. And I think the same is true for Luxembourg, when Princess Alexandra was included in the succession. I also heard that a change of succession rights was prepared in Great Britain in the 1980's. But then two Princes were born, and the matter didn't seem urgent anymore, as it would have changed nothing. But they probably would have changed the law if a girl had been born instead of William.

Back to Sophia: I think that it would be absolutely rediculous to deny her the Princess title after she was invited to private holidays with the King and Queen, and has been to all those important family events like weddings and christenings. If the King and Queen hadn't been ready to accept her, they wouldn't have let her attend any of these events. I am absolutely convinced that CP and their kids will stay in the line of succession in the case of a wedding with Sophia. (And the fact that I'm not fond of her doesn't matter all for them.)
Under the law of succession, the King must ask for consent in a special Council of State (he's the only person who can do that), but consent itself is actually given by the Swedish government, not by the King. What if the current government doesn't think Sofia is a suitable bride ?
  #1951  
Old 06-21-2014, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KitKat2006 View Post

Have CGs sister ever really been in line of succession? I'm not sure of it. Could have one of them become Queen if they married right but CG married wrong? If not it doesn't matter when or whom they married.
No, the King's sisters were never in the line of succession as, between 1810 and 1980, succession to the Swedish throne was strictly agnatic, i.e female dynasts and their respective descendants had no succession rights. Carl Gustaf had two uncles though who gave up their place in the line of succession to marry "unequally". And Prince Bertil, Duke of Halland, who served as Carl Gustaf's "foster father" during most of his young life, didn't marry the Welsh commoner Lilian Craig until Carl Gustaf was already King and had already married himself.
  #1952  
Old 06-21-2014, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
No, the KIng's sisters were never in the line of succession as, between 1810 and 1980, succession to the Swedish throne was strictly agnatic, i.e female dynasts and their respective descendants had no succession rights. Carl Gustaf had two uncles though who gave up their place in the line of succession to mary "unequally". And Prince Bertil, Duke of Halland, who served as Carl Gustaf's "foster father" during most of his young life, didn't marry the Weslsh commoner Lilian Craig until Carl Gustaf was already King and had already married.
So basically, Prince Bertil did the unselfish thing until the succession was ensured, had Carl Gustaf decided to marry without consent (or to a lady who was not acceptable), Bertil would have been king, but then he would never have been able to marry Ms. Craig...

Or to return to where this started: every person is responsible for his own choices and own happiness, but being a royal adds some additional difficulties when you want to pursue it
  #1953  
Old 06-21-2014, 08:26 AM
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Under the law of succession, the King must ask for consent in a special Council of State (he's the only person who can do that), but consent itself is actually given by the Swedish government, not by the King. What if the current government doesn't think Sofia is a suitable bride ?
Well, I don't live in Sweden, so my view of things might not be accurate. But as far as I can see, the Swedish state is quite liberal and open minded. The government would not oppose to Sophia because of those pictures, since they are not illegal.

Unless something much more serious turns up, like being involved in illegal activities, they would not deny her consent. I assume that Sophia's past has been scrutinized pretty thoroughly during the past few years. So it would be unlikely that any serious misdeed will yet be uncovered.
  #1954  
Old 06-21-2014, 09:05 AM
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Svensk Damtidning's Liv Sander met Sofia at the "Female Economist of the Year" last week, at the paper version of the magazine

Sofia comes to Svensk Damtidning and greets with a firm handshake. And although the scholarships are soon delivered, she takes time to answer a few questions.
About the christening:
- The Drottningholm Chapel is so unbeliavably beautiful! It was such a fine christening where everything went perfect. The sun was shining! An little Leonore was so cute when she slept. Everything was just so great. There was a very cozy and familiar ambiance.
Now it is summer, but the holiday plans aren't just ready yet for Sofia and Carl Philip. He has still some job events to do before the royal calendar is empty. Sofia continues with Project Playground.
- I'm working very much in the summer, but like everyone else I have some holiday. We don't know yet what we are going to do, we will see. I'm going to work much from Stockholm. It is great to be here at home in the summer. There is no place like home.
  #1955  
Old 06-26-2014, 06:31 AM
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Sofia with her mentor Barbro Ehnbom (c) at Barbro's "Female Economist of the Year" Award Ceremony on 9th June.
http://www2.hhs.se/femaleeconomist/i...4/_DSC6770.jpg
Another photo
http://www2.hhs.se/femaleeconomist/i...4/_DSC6828.jpg
  #1956  
Old 06-26-2014, 08:56 AM
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I would say a Royal Engagement is a long long way away. They are a couple, for now, but making it official is another matter entirely.
  #1957  
Old 06-27-2014, 11:05 AM
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According to Expressen's Johan T Lindwall, the engagement of Carl Philip and Sofia will be published today. The court has called the press suddenly to a press conference at 16.30 at the Royal Palace and the director of the press department, Margareta Thorgren didn't tell the reason.
Carl Philip och Sofia Hellqvist förlovade Nyheter Expressen
Translation
  #1958  
Old 06-27-2014, 11:08 AM
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What? Is it a joke? :-(

Maybe she is pregnant... Any swedish speaker?
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  #1959  
Old 06-27-2014, 11:18 AM
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This will happen today, while Queen Silvia is in NYC to attend the Childhood event?
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  #1960  
Old 06-27-2014, 11:20 AM
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Or maybe abdication?
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