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  #1581  
Old 09-22-2013, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
If CP is to make his own life as he wants, he can do it without taxpayer money and without an official "HRH" in front of his name.
Isn't that a decision to be left up to the King and Government of Sweden?
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  #1582  
Old 09-22-2013, 10:58 PM
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I think Victoria will need him in an official capacity. Madeline is out of the country at this time.
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  #1583  
Old 09-22-2013, 11:16 PM
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What is so wrong with any of the aristocrats or princesses from dethroned royal houses? France has a few branches of families and conversion might not be a problem for one of them. Then there are the Romanovs (someone could convert) and there are endless princesses and aristocrats among the Eastern families.

Let him retain his HRH, but don't let one be granted to Sofia.
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  #1584  
Old 09-23-2013, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I'm trying to figure out why Prince Carl Philip's future wife shouldn't have a title? I would think she will take his title, Her Royal Highness Duchess of Värmland.
Let it wash over you like a breath of air :) don't worry, if an engagement is announced tomorrow the only concern will be who the bridesmaids will be and what kind of dress she will wear, how many children they will have, what their names will be and who will be the godparents . A title will be argued just before the wedding and there will be two camps; the pro-princess & the pro-duchess camps!
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  #1585  
Old 09-23-2013, 03:56 AM
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I am one of those people who believes being a Princess is more than just looking pretty,wearing tiaras and being married to a Prince...it is a full-time job! For every job people need to fulfill certain criterias and bring along some qualifications for the position.
Being well-mannered, polite, intelligent, compassionate and discreete are some of the most important qualities I expect from a royal. Of course there are some royal-born people who do not "fit" into this criteria, but if people want to "earn" a royal title they should posess a few of these characteristics IMO.
I could accept SH modellling and reality tv-show appearances, but I believe she should not have used twitter to announce her relationship with the Prince or talk to the press about their relationship...
Keeping private things private is the key. If she did not use social media and gossip papers to make her relationship public,I am sure most of us would not even know her name and she could live a happy life with the man of her dreams.There are many famous people who manage to keep their private life public and stay out of the media,it is possible... I do not have anything against SH in person,she could be the nicest woman ever,but I just don´t see how she is suitable for the job of a Princess. Someone with the lifestyle of a celebrity should not be expect to suddenly be treated like a Princess just because of dating someone from a royal family.
If SH and CP are happy together nobody will oppose, but they should not force the public to accept her as a HRH. They would avoid a lot of criticism and mean-spirited comments if they decided to live the life of private citizens and find jobs to support their own lifestyle.
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  #1586  
Old 09-23-2013, 04:46 AM
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did she use twittter to announce her relationship with the Prince?
  #1587  
Old 09-23-2013, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I'm trying to figure out why Prince Carl Philip's future wife shouldn't have a title? I would think she will take his title, Her Royal Highness Duchess of Värmland.
It's not like they have to give her one, though. Chris didnt receive a title and they could do the same with Sofia.I doubt Sofia is an asset and while until now, the media didnt use her past, it's not certain they wont do it if/when an engagement is announced. Anyway, it'd be better if the SRF avoids scandals.

Also, the level of popularity of CP is less than V. And this should be taken into account because people would be more forgiving of V than CP. And this is my feeling since my family lives in Sweden.Monarchies survive on popularity too. They cant do whatever they want or feel..
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  #1588  
Old 09-23-2013, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glam4 View Post
It's not like they have to give her one, though. Chris didnt receive a title and they could do the same with Sofia.I doubt Sofia is an asset and while until now, the media didnt use her past, it's not certain they wont do it if/when an engagement is announced. Anyway, it'd be better if the SRF avoids scandals.

Also, the level of popularity of CP is less than V. And this should be taken into account because people would be more forgiving of V than CP. And this is my feeling since my family lives in Sweden.Monarchies survive on popularity too. They cant do whatever they want or feel..
Chris didn't want to have a title, which would have required that he would have to have the swedish citizenship and he would have to stop his businesses. So we can't compare Chris and Sofia in that way. Of course Sofia can also refuse to have a title...
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  #1589  
Old 09-23-2013, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
Chris didn't want to have a title, which would have required that he would have to have the swedish citizenship. So we can't compare Chris and Sofia in that way. Of course Sofia can also refuse to have a title...
I know that the citizenship was the reason. He also wanted to keep on working.
But as you said Sofia could refuse or they could make her refuse. I dont think the title should be so important for her and her relationship. If she marries the man she loves and let's be honest she is going to have a good life regardless the title, she should be happy. Imo. If the title is so important for her, then her motivations could be questioned.

I also believe that behind this kind of choices, there is or there should be a consideration of the interests involved. Chris (and Madeleine) werent that popular that people would have liked a title for him. (And I am saying this, even if they are the couple I like the most in the family).It would have been a mistake. Imo, the same situation is true also for CP and S.
They could also do what the Lux family did with Tessy. I know the situations are again different, but they could grant a title to Sofia later when she has proved her "change" and her suitability.
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  #1590  
Old 09-23-2013, 07:03 AM
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A thought (and completely opninion and not fact):

my feeling is that P.Carl Philip has to choose between the career he'd love to have (race car driver, with the girlfriend/wife that goes with that) or the career he's supposed to have, that of a prince (with a wife who is a professional representer-of-country)...
I'm not so sure that he has made his mind up yet, or, that he kinda made up his mind but that the choice isn't accepted to his family...
in other words, i think he'd much rather be a racer and leave the whole royal business behind
For me Sofia is difficult to imagine as a royal wife, but she's perfect as a racer's wife/gf

But what i don't know: does he have this option? (so to leave royal life behind)?
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  #1591  
Old 09-23-2013, 07:34 AM
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It always surprises me how people's expectation of royals is that they are "perfect". and how harsh people are on anyone who is not royal or noble daring to marry into a reigning family. Daniel, Catherine, Camilla, Mette Marit, Maxima, Letitiza, and Charlene to name a few. And then the praise for Stephanie and Matilde just because they are noble.

then there is the picking over of their physical appearance, past, families, work, work ethic, friends and finances.

Finding someone to share your life with is hard enough, but then there is all this stuff on top.

but what gets my goat is how very unforgiving some posters are. If current behaviour was so bad that it had a negative impact on the SRF, I would understand but it isn't.

Based on some views on here, new members of RFs who are excellent ambassadors ( Daniel and Mette Marit for example) would have been shown the door.

Carl should marry his girl and be happy and continue to carry out royal duties if that is what they both want.
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  #1592  
Old 09-23-2013, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Isn't that a decision to be left up to the King and Government of Sweden?
What about the taxpayers of Sweden?

Do they count or do they exist to just pay up and shut up? CP and Sofia will after all be representing them in an official capacity.
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  #1593  
Old 09-23-2013, 08:09 AM
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I agree. If Prince Carl Philip decides to marry Sofia Hellqvist, give her his title and carry out official duties with the rest of the family, he should be able to do so. This nonsense about her background is just that, nonsense.
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  #1594  
Old 09-23-2013, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
It always surprises me how people's expectation of royals is that they are "perfect". and how harsh people are on anyone who is not royal or noble daring to marry into a reigning family. Daniel, Catherine, Camilla, Mette Marit, Maxima, Letitiza, and Charlene to name a few. And then the praise for Stephanie and Matilde just because they are noble.

then there is the picking over of their physical appearance, past, families, work, work ethic, friends and finances.

Finding someone to share your life with is hard enough, but then there is all this stuff on top.

but what gets my goat is how very unforgiving some posters are. If current behaviour was so bad that it had a negative impact on the SRF, I would understand but it isn't.

Based on some views on here, new members of RFs who are excellent ambassadors ( Daniel and Mette Marit for example) would have been shown the door.

Carl should marry his girl and be happy and continue to carry out royal duties if that is what they both want.
At least I don't expect that the people who marry royals are perfect. But I expect that they either have educated themselves and worked after that, or if they haven't educated themselves for example at the university, they have worked ever since they finished their school. A person must have been able to make a living with a proper and honourable job. Everyone makes small mistakes, but to me Sofia's mistakes and behaviour aren't small mistakes for a person who obviously wants to be a member of a royal family. I have always respected Daniel's past and hard work and thought that he would be an excellent new royal, it is a pity that it took so long that he could show that.
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  #1595  
Old 09-23-2013, 08:26 AM
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Her life hasn't been a mistake, it's been a choice. Daniel and Mette never did posing for male magazines thinly disguised to provide titillation. She never went and got a straight honorable job and never (apparently) bothered to try.
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  #1596  
Old 09-23-2013, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
At least I don't expect that the people who marry royals are perfect. But I expect that they either have educated themselves and worked after that, or if they haven't educated themselves for example at the university, they have worked ever since they finished their school. A person must have been able to make a living with a proper and honourable job. Everyone makes small mistakes, but to me Sofia's mistakes and behaviour aren't small mistakes for a person who obviously wants to be a member of a royal family. I have always respected Daniel's past and hard work and thought that he would be an excellent new royal, it is a pity that it took so long that he could show that.
I agree.
Quote:
Her life hasn't been a mistake, it's been a choice. Daniel and Mette never did posing for male magazines thinly disguised to provide titillation. She never went and got a straight honorable job and never (apparently) bothered to try. .
word. I also think that Daniel, Catherine Charlene couldnt be compared at all to Sofia's situation. And Maxima's fault was her family, but again not smthg comparable. She was an intelligent and educated woman that could fit the role.
Letizia's past was hard to accept for the conservative part of spanish society, but again it was a mistake that imo wasnt that big or made her unsuitable at all. MM's situation was handled better. Also I got a different vibe from MM than Sofia. This my opinion. I dont think Sofia is criticized for her lack of blue blood.
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  #1597  
Old 09-23-2013, 09:16 AM
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Maybe people are fed up with princesses with scandalous pasts; Maxima's past isn't her past in the sense that she is the one who has to overcome something that she did. It wasn't her, it was her father. As for the rest of them, in varying degrees they have had to have expensive PR campaigns and it's disconcerting how the public is not just supposed to forgive and forget, but LURVE the princesses as well. Just because the prince loves them. It's not about the public, but about the prince.

Sofia represents a nadir of these women and I'm beginning to wonder if the public is allowed their true feelings about this or are they bullied into accepting yet another fairytale? A lot of these princesses weren't born into healthy families and Sofia had a set of parents, intact home, lived in a country filled with honest opportunities and yet, didn't choose to go that route, but instead ended up making out with a porn star. There have to be limits and I think Sofia's decision making leaves a lot to be desired.

She's been living off of Sweden via CP and as for his career as a prince, please tell me again what it is that they do that is so valuable? He's not really required to preside over anything substantial and there is nothing wrong with incorporating his love of cars with his royal role, which outside of state events, is in fact what he makes of it.
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  #1598  
Old 09-23-2013, 09:18 AM
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Sofia is not a victim in no way, shape or form. It's an insult to women who are victims of coercion, bullying, slut shaming etc for an honest discussion of Sofia's merits as potential member of the SRF to be hijeckted by those so seek to make her into a pitiable victim of anyone who has issues with her career choices and her current behavior with respect to her eagerness for fame and attention from the press.

I'm sure she and CP are well suited to one another and I hope, if they get married that they have a long an happy married life. But lets not pretend that she'd walk into the SRF
without questions about character due to her past "career" choices. Millions of women
make the choices to purse their education or work in the work-a-day world rather than take their clothes off for money and fame.

Still, I agree with other who've said that as Victoria has more children the throne is secure both Madeleine and CP's family lives will become less important and less photographs. My wish for Sofia is that she pulls learns a bit of restrained dignity instead
of the images of her seeming like an over excited toddler whenever she sees camera. It's a learned behavior that hopefully she'll grow out of over time.
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  #1599  
Old 09-23-2013, 09:32 AM
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I totally agree!

She isn't a victim and she is not someone who has suffered; this has to be the first time in her life when she is experiencing consequences about her behavior.

Since she CHOSE this lifestyle, how on earth can she speak up for the victimized?

She isn't someone who was tricked, she was posing and actively pursuing. I don't see her as someone who was unable to get out of her situation.

If she won't be so significant, there is no need for an "HRH" or anything other than Mrs. Carl Philip Bernadotte.
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  #1600  
Old 09-23-2013, 09:59 AM
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I'm glad Prince Carl Philip's family accepts the lady in his life and the couple seem to be very happy. If they decide to get engaged and get married, I think Sofia has the right to take her husbands title. Of course she could turn the title down but I really don't think she would or should be bullied into doing so. She's a Swedish citizen after all.

Most likely Prince Carl Philip and his wife will be active participants within the royal family. Carl Philip currently carry's out official engagements and he attends the family's high profile events, so I don't see the problem of him doing the same thing with his future wife.

There are some who won't like Sofia because she posed for some pictures and participated in a reality show. That's life but the dislike haven't stopped the family from embracing Carl Philip's companion and even inviting her to some of their family events. I think the big difference is that they have taken the time to get to know Sofia personally and see the happiness between Carl Philip and Sofia in an intimate way. It's tough for some to see the real deal while looking in from the outside and not getting to know Sofia and witnessing the relationship from a personal point of view.
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