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  #1561  
Old 09-22-2013, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by soraya View Post
I agree with you empress merel, that's a great post from Ish.
If the Swedish royal family accepts her then that's none of our business and not even the Swedes one.
Since CP is unlikly to become King then his choice of wife has no importance for the monarchy.Are people expecting a noble,virgin,perfect wife for CP like Diana?
We have already seen what happened to the supposed perfect match Charles/Diana.
May be she isn't perfect but who here can pretend to be perfect.Every one should be given a second chance. As far as I know,Sofia isn't a criminal (no robbery,homicide,drug deal...).
I feel so sorry for Carl Philipp and Madeleine,everything they do is subject to harsh criticism,everything sainte Victoria do is perfect.
In comparison,I love how the Brits are so magnanimous with Prince Harry and his gaffes
Of course it is none of our business, but here we are free, or so I thought, to express opinions. Who called Victoria a saint? I love her, but have certainly written posts critical of her because I have the freedom to do so. You seem to be putting words into people's mouths. I do not feel sorry for any royal in this way, they live a public life that is going to be open to criticism. I feel sorry for poor people, starving people, etc. Not royals.
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  #1562  
Old 09-22-2013, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Oh God...

On average the Swedish taxpayer is paying $1.82 annually for the monarchy. Half of that is for palace administration, so only 91 cents per person is going towards funding the lives of the Swedish royals. I kind of think that the 91 cents isn't really enough for people to complain nearly as much as they are about Sofia.
Well yes, that amount of money is not enough to allow people to complain, but we have to remember that the Swedish Royal Family are there to serve and represent their people. So that does allow them to complain about their royals. I guess that it would not hurt to try not to be too controversial. That is my opinion.
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  #1563  
Old 09-22-2013, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Andolini View Post
Of course it is none of our business, but here we are free, or so I thought, to express opinions. Who called Victoria a saint? I love her, but have certainly written posts critical of her because I have the freedom to do so. You seem to be putting words into people's mouths. I do not feel sorry for any royal in this way, they live a public life that is going to be open to criticism. I feel sorry for poor people, starving people, etc. Not royals.
AMEN. These people live in magnificent historical palaces and homes. They will never concern themselves with their children's tuition, and they are assured the best quality of education for themselves. They will never juggle the phone or electricity bill. They dine on the best quality of food, take the most exotic holidays, meet the most interesting people at the most lavish parties.They wear beautiful, expensive clothing.

And the taxpayer will foot the lion's share of the cost.

In return they will submit to a certain amount of public scrutiny and loss of privacy, will be the public face of their respective dynasties and countries, and try to choose friends and spouses that will expose neither to ridicule.

I am not terribly sympathetic to their "problems". I say let's trade!!
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  #1564  
Old 09-22-2013, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by CrownPrincess5 View Post
The bottom line is Sofia can marry CP, but she should not have the princess title.
Actually the bottom line is that it is up to the Swedish King to decide if she can marry into his family and what her titles will be.
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  #1565  
Old 09-22-2013, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soraya View Post
I agree with you empress merel, that's a great post from Ish.
If the Swedish royal family accepts her then that's none of our business and not even the Swedes one.
Since CP is unlikly to become King then his choice of wife has no importance for the monarchy.Are people expecting a noble,virgin,perfect wife for CP like Diana?
We have already seen what happened to the supposed perfect match Charles/Diana.
May be she isn't perfect but who here can pretend to be perfect.Every one should be given a second chance. As far as I know,Sofia isn't a criminal (no robbery,homicide,drug deal...).
I feel so sorry for Carl Philipp and Madeleine,everything they do is subject to harsh criticism,everything sainte Victoria do is perfect.
In comparison,I love how the Brits are so magnanimous with Prince Harry and his gaffes
It is not solely the royal family's business, because if Carl Philip wants to stay in the line of succession, both the monarch and the government has to give their consent to it.
And no wants a noble, virgin , perfect wife for Carl Philip, because that is not our business what kind of a wife he chooses, but since we are allowed to give our opinion on the matter , I would like him to marry a girl with a good background, someone who can represent her country very well ( if she wants to be part of the official SRF,in the other case that again will not be a concern ).
And about Diana, maybe she was well matched for her role, but she and Charles weren't perfect-matched for each other and that's is were most of the problems started.
and no one says Sofia is a criminal, we just have problem with some of her past choices.
About the comparison of Carl Philip and Madeleine between Victoria, with all respects to CP and Madeleine, Just look at how much Victoria has dedicated herself to her duties, and she does them flawlessly.
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  #1566  
Old 09-22-2013, 11:57 AM
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So, so true. Diana Spencer performed her duties as Princess brilliantly, no matter the turbulence in her personal life. Many young people then(myself included) became more interested in English Royal history and the House of Windsor because of her.

BUT...as a wife she was the worst possible choice for the Prince of Wales, and that is a tragedy.
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  #1567  
Old 09-22-2013, 12:28 PM
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Andolini,royal or not,public figures or not,somebody who has done no crimes doesn't deserve that amount of criticism for things they no longer do.
Actually,nobody here knows her ,may be she is a nice person.I really don't care for what she did in the past and even if she persists in it,I don't care because I don't think her nudity is endangering the monarchy.

Camilla was one of the most hated person in the world for obvious reasons but with time she proved to be a nice person and worth of respect.In the case of Camilla,even the greatest bigots I know forgot and forgave her.

I don't think Sofia has to be ashamed of what she did,some royals by birth did worse and weren't subject to that amount of criticim.
The fact that she is commoner and a woman doesn't help.Again I am not surprised that a woman will always be bashed for the slightest moral mistake.
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  #1568  
Old 09-22-2013, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by soraya View Post
Andolini,royal or not,public figures or not,somebody who has done no crimes doesn't deserve that amount of criticism for things they no longer do.
Actually,nobody here knows her ,may be she is a nice person.I really don't care for what she did in the past and even if she persists in it,I don't care because I don't think her nudity is endangering the monarchy.

Camilla was one of the most hated person in the world for obvious reasons but with time she proved to be a nice person and worth of respect.In the case of Camilla,even the greatest bigots I know forgot and forgave her.

I don't think Sofia has to be ashamed of what she did,some royals by birth did worse and weren't subject to that amount of criticim.
The fact that she is commoner and a woman doesn't help.Again I am not surprised that a woman will always be bashed for the slightest moral mistake.
Again, I have not ever said I hated Sofia. I don't agree with her lifestyle. I sincerely wish people would not attribute things to me that I never said. I thought she looked lovely in that Pale pink gown at Carl's cousins wedding several weeks ago. Just lovely. I have never called her names, said I hated her. I also have always liked Camilla even when the great Princess Diana was still alive. Have I bashed Sofia "morally"? No. I DO NOT AGREE WITH HER CHOICES. That is all. It would be nice if people would stop putting words in my mouth please.
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  #1569  
Old 09-22-2013, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soraya View Post
Andolini,royal or not,public figures or not,somebody who has done no crimes doesn't deserve that amount of criticism for things they no longer do.
Actually,nobody here knows her ,may be she is a nice person.I really don't care for what she did in the past and even if she persists in it,I don't care because I don't think her nudity is endangering the monarchy.

Camilla was one of the most hated person in the world for obvious reasons but with time she proved to be a nice person and worth of respect.In the case of Camilla,even the greatest bigots I know forgot and forgave her.

I don't think Sofia has to be ashamed of what she did,some royals by birth did worse and weren't subject to that amount of criticim.
The fact that she is commoner and a woman doesn't help.Again I am not surprised that a woman will always be bashed for the slightest moral mistake.

So people who resented married Camilla for carrying on with a very married PoW were "bigots"?? Seriously??

As for the second argument...I am not an admirer of the late Duke of Windsor, the late Shah of Iran, or the late Prince Bernhardt of the Netherlands..racist wimp/Nazi sympathizer, deluded tyrant, shameless adulterer. They were also born Royal and they were men.

Being a commoner is actually seen as a plus for a potential Royal spouse from today's crowd, who go into raptures about how "normal" and "relatable" these women are, and what a Cinderella fairy tale it all is. Noble and aristocratic marriages are all automatically assumed to be arranged with the bride a cold, privileged snob. The reverse has proven true.

To be brutally honest it has not helped the case for commoner brides that several of the many who have married into Royalty in the past few years have backgrounds that MADE them controversial, while the two or three non-commoner brides did not. That is not a case for aristocratic brides and against commoners, it's simply the facts.
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  #1570  
Old 09-22-2013, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
So people who resented married Camilla for carrying on with a very married PoW were "bigots"?? Seriously??

As for the second argument...I am not an admirer of the late Duke of Windsor, the late Shah of Iran, or the late Prince Bernhardt of the Netherlands..racist wimp/Nazi sympathizer, deluded tyrant, shameless adulterer. They were also born Royal and they were men.

Being a commoner is actually seen as a plus for a potential Royal spouse from today's crowd, who go into raptures about how "normal" and "relatable" these women are, and what a Cinderella fairy tale it all is. Noble and aristocratic marriages are all automatically assumed to be arranged with the bride a cold, privileged snob. The reverse has proven true.

To be brutally honest it has not helped the case for commoner brides that several of the many who have married into Royalty in the past few years have backgrounds that MADE them controversial, while the two or three non-commoner brides did not. That is not a case for aristocratic brides and against commoners, it's simply the facts.
I have disagreed, as moonmaiden said above, with many male royals. I think the commoner Daniel puts them all to shame - he has been an extraordinary asset to the royal family, he is simply spectacular. The Duke of Windsor - weak willed, spineless Nazi sympathizer who, in the long run IMO, did the royal family a great service by abdicating. They got QUEII's father in his place, and he and the Queen Mum helped pull the country through a terrible war. They were amazing. Prince Bernhard - do not get me started LOL. It pains me to read about his doings to his family and his illegal activities because I have admired the late Juliana and Princess Beatrix so much. Wilhemenia, Juliana and Beatrix are 3 of the most inspiring examples of strong female role models. Queen Elizabeth - love her. She has been discreet, is no attention hog in the least, has remained dignified despite the many goings on in the past. She truly has pledged her life to the islands that she reigns over.
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  #1571  
Old 09-22-2013, 02:08 PM
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Of several similar situations mentioned there are people who still resent the person:
- Camilla is by some still regarded as a b** who broke up the marriage of Charles and Diana
- Kate is regarded as a lazy person who does barely anything in representing the UK
when an article on one of them is published in the dialy mail, just read the comments section for more opinions :-)

As long as everybody remembers that it's just their own opinion and that nobody is 'the voice of the nation' here, it's all fair game :-)
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  #1572  
Old 09-22-2013, 02:46 PM
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Andolini and Moonmaiden,I am sorry if I offendend one of you that wasn't my aim
English is only my fourth language,therefore some of my ideas are may be not well expressed and may seem harsh.I wish I could express them much easily.

Andolini,you were absolutly not my target and I don't attribute to you things you have not said.Today,I came to that thread and read the last few pages and brought my own pinch of salt ( again in my limited english ).
I was just willing to say that I don't share the opinion of those who keep criticising a girl for her past behaviour.I pick up the general ideas of those who criticise her and didn't select any particular poster.

My idea is simply this:like most of us she is doing mistakes,like all of us she has to be given a second chance.I said she is may be a nice girl meaning she is may be a kind person and may be someone who can be trusted.

Moonmaiden,I didn't say that those who disliked Camilla were bigots.Trust me,I didn't like her in the past but I learned to appreciate her.
I simply meant that among those who disliked her there were bigots but also non bigots.
With time,it seems many people changed their mind and are now appreciating her.And among those who changed their minds,I personally know some who are a bit bigot.My aim was to say that even some with traditionnal views have changed their mind.

Moonmaiden,nice that you are fair in judging royal versus commoner ,women versus men but again but imo most people don't.IMO,unfair judgement is most of time not even conscious.
From experience,I have noticed that women are most of time subject to much more harshness and disregard when they don't strictly respect a given moral (if they are single mothers,if they date younger men...)
In my daily life and as a woman I strongly react specially when men dare to criticise the morality of any woman.
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  #1573  
Old 09-22-2013, 02:54 PM
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soraya, you did not offend me in the least. Your English is better than many Americans that I know. Thanks for response.
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  #1574  
Old 09-22-2013, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Andolini View Post
People should be free to make up their own minds about Sofia. My dislike of her does not make a "slut shamer" and I really resent that terminology in this case. Some do not like or agree with others about Sofia and hate that we make "judgments" about her, but then turn around and call others names?? That to me is the height of hypocrisy. I NEVER called her a slut and never would, I do not agree with her choices. I am no bully, simply a person expressing an opinion. Stop the name calling yourselves.I do not think she is a role model, I think her choices have reinforced the objectification of women. Period. I and others are not hate mongerers, but people who call us names seem to be the ones hating. I hate no one.
Exactly. I also would like to add that I personally find it offensive to the real people in the world who battle bullying and suicide. We are posting on the internet about someone receiving an HRH. Were not sending her to the guillotine! Furthermore it's always amusing how people are only okay with the moderators when they're on their side. Hmmmm....
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  #1575  
Old 09-22-2013, 06:38 PM
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My two cents for what its worth. I really think Carl Philip should marry Sofia soon if she is the one he loves. He is not the heir and not even the "spare" anymore the chances of him becoming king are slim. It would take a terrible tragedy for that to happen. He should make a life for himself with the woman he wants. He kind of reminds me of Prince Andrew in the UK, who for many years was the "spare". Prince Andrew always seemed to me as being kind of lost since he split from Sarah Ferguson and he is no longer the "spare". As far as Carl Philip goes - he seemed kind of lost at the jubilee celebrations without a partner.
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  #1576  
Old 09-22-2013, 07:10 PM
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If CP is to make his own life as he wants, he can do it without taxpayer money and without an official "HRH" in front of his name.
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  #1577  
Old 09-22-2013, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by soraya View Post
Andolini and Moonmaiden,I am sorry if I offendend one of you that wasn't my aim
English is only my fourth language,therefore some of my ideas are may be not well expressed and may seem harsh.I wish I could express them much easily.

Andolini,you were absolutly not my target and I don't attribute to you things you have not said.Today,I came to that thread and read the last few pages and brought my own pinch of salt ( again in my limited english ).
I was just willing to say that I don't share the opinion of those who keep criticising a girl for her past behaviour.I pick up the general ideas of those who criticise her and didn't select any particular poster.

My idea is simply this:like most of us she is doing mistakes,like all of us she has to be given a second chance.I said she is may be a nice girl meaning she is may be a kind person and may be someone who can be trusted.

Moonmaiden,I didn't say that those who disliked Camilla were bigots.Trust me,I didn't like her in the past but I learned to appreciate her.
I simply meant that among those who disliked her there were bigots but also non bigots.
With time,it seems many people changed their mind and are now appreciating her.And among those who changed their minds,I personally know some who are a bit bigot.My aim was to say that even some with traditionnal views have changed their mind.

Moonmaiden,nice that you are fair in judging royal versus commoner ,women versus men but again but imo most people don't.IMO,unfair judgement is most of time not even conscious.
From experience,I have noticed that women are most of time subject to much more harshness and disregard when they don't strictly respect a given moral (if they are single mothers,if they date younger men...)
In my daily life and as a woman I strongly react specially when men dare to criticise the morality of any woman.
No worries!!!!! My goodness I would never think less of you for your opinions!! I sometimes forget this is a site where many people do not have English as their primary language. Absolutely no problems :) Carl Phillip is of course is totally free to do as he wishes, while we have the luxury of commenting on it. I can see how that at times can seem unfair, but again, these are all opinions and not anything the man has to concern himself with - lucky for him LOL
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  #1578  
Old 09-22-2013, 10:32 PM
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My opinion about his title is that he should be able to retain the HRH -- he was born the son of the king -- not his fault. However, unless he is the heir (which he is not) I think that his wife and children should not have titles at all.
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  #1579  
Old 09-22-2013, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by soraya View Post
Andolini and Moonmaiden,I am sorry if I offendend one of you that wasn't my aim
English is only my fourth language,therefore some of my ideas are may be not well expressed and may seem harsh.I wish I could express them much easily.

Andolini,you were absolutly not my target and I don't attribute to you things you have not said.Today,I came to that thread and read the last few pages and brought my own pinch of salt ( again in my limited english ).
I was just willing to say that I don't share the opinion of those who keep criticising a girl for her past behaviour.I pick up the general ideas of those who criticise her and didn't select any particular poster.

My idea is simply this:like most of us she is doing mistakes,like all of us she has to be given a second chance.I said she is may be a nice girl meaning she is may be a kind person and may be someone who can be trusted.

Moonmaiden,I didn't say that those who disliked Camilla were bigots.Trust me,I didn't like her in the past but I learned to appreciate her.
I simply meant that among those who disliked her there were bigots but also non bigots.
With time,it seems many people changed their mind and are now appreciating her.And among those who changed their minds,I personally know some who are a bit bigot.My aim was to say that even some with traditionnal views have changed their mind.

Moonmaiden,nice that you are fair in judging royal versus commoner ,women versus men but again but imo most people don't.IMO,unfair judgement is most of time not even conscious.
From experience,I have noticed that women are most of time subject to much more harshness and disregard when they don't strictly respect a given moral (if they are single mothers,if they date younger men...)
In my daily life and as a woman I strongly react specially when men dare to criticise the morality of any woman.

I wanted to add that I admire that you know 4 languages. I am American, and speak English and maybe a little Italian (my family heritage) if I am lucky LOL. So 4 languages!!! I am very impressed!!!
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  #1580  
Old 09-22-2013, 10:36 PM
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I'm trying to figure out why Prince Carl Philip's future wife shouldn't have a title? I would think she will take his title, Her Royal Highness Duchess of Värmland.
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