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  #1481  
Old 09-20-2013, 01:03 AM
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One thing that I will say is that SH is only being called bad names online. The Swedish media(Aftonblat) is going full court press pro-Sofia. They have built her up as the best thing to happen to the SRF in years. Her worst photos have not been seen and probably will not be seen for years. They have kind of taken on the role that HELLO magazine did for Kate before Kate married William...her biggest cheerleader.

Aftonblat said it's a good thing she posed nude and did reality TV "otherwise she would not have met her prince." Their exact words, I kid you not.

And THAT is a very, very bad message to give young girls and women, imo.
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  #1482  
Old 09-20-2013, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post

But a big part of the reason these girls feel so much shame is because there are so many messages telling them it's something they should be ashamed of- that it's a lapse in judgement they'll never live down.

Yes, Sofia chose this and was in control, but she still got called all the same things- prostitute, dirty, whore, slut. (Apologies if some of those words are not appropriate here, but I use them in context to make a point.) And if she refuses to let her life and character be defined by those words- what it says is that you can escape that. Who you are is up to you, and other people's ugly words do not define your life or your character.

I fully agree with you that Mary is a lovely role model, but if god forbid, one of your girls is ever hurt and bullied in this manner, I'm sure the first thing you'd say is that your love for them is unconditional and unshakeable, and their love for themselves should be the same way. And in that scenario- it might be helpful to be able to point out that other women have been bullied and shamed and still manage to love themselves and live exactly the life they want to live.
Yes you are right, but the point I am trying to make is that Sofia has actively sought the limelight doing the very things she is now trying to distance herself from.

The girls and boys who are committing suicide haven't actively sought this attention! In most cases their innocent actions have become fodder for bullies. This is a different situation altogether.

This is about choices a person willingly, knowingly, actively makes. AND a single lapse in judgement, taken by others to demean and humiliate, intentionally bully and continue to violate someone who is already feeling shamed, someone who didn't choose this.
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  #1483  
Old 09-20-2013, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
One thing that I will say is that SH is only being called bad names online. The Swedish media(Aftonblat) is going full court press pro-Sofia. They have built her up as the best thing to happen to the SRF in years. Her worst photos have not been seen and probably will not be seen for years. They have kind of taken on the role that HELLO magazine did for Kate before Kate married William...her biggest cheerleader.

Aftonblat said it's a good thing she posed nude and did reality TV "otherwise she would not have met her prince." Their exact words, I kid you not.

And THAT is a very, very bad message to give young girls and women, imo.
Aftonbladet (and Expressen) is doing this of course because they want to have a good relationship with the royal court. Since the court complained already a couple of years ago that some media posting the old photos is acting badly, Aftonbladet wants to stay out of it.
I agree, it is a very bad message to give young girls and women, especially when participating at reality shows like Paradise Hotel has become more and more common.
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  #1484  
Old 09-20-2013, 01:42 AM
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LadyFinn, thank you for giving me the proper spelling of the paper(Aftonbladet)
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  #1485  
Old 09-20-2013, 06:08 AM
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The teenagers who have committed suicide because they were forced to do things they did not want to do where blackmailed and bullied - I am very sad for every young girl and boy who has died because of being bullied and terrorised in such a shameful way, but I do not think it has very much to do with SH. These boys and girls were forced into exposing their body and doing things that are not in line with their moral values and the way they have been brought up and taught by their parents.
If a woman decides to do nude pictures or participate in certain films as a job (or just for fun) it is her free choice. If it is ok with her own values and self-image, it is alright, everyone knows what is best for them and what they want in life. I just don´t like it when such women (Kim Kardashian, Paris Hilton etc.) are presented as role models that we (girls and women in general) should aspire to follow. It is quite annoying that they are constantly in the media, instead of acchieved,intellectual women who have done something valuable and meaningful with their life- like doctors,scientists,writers,politicians,journalists,lawyers,human rights activists etc.

When young girls constantly see that women are most succesful when they expose their body,date a rich guy and look pretty, I am afraid it is teaching them values that are not going to serve our society very well.
(Not that posing for pictures,looking pretty or dating is a bad thing - but this should not be a "career choice"!)

I wish to see more role models like CP Mary,Q Maxima or even women like CP Mette-Marit and CP Letizia. They are behaving decently,discreet and they have proven to have a very caring,compassionate nature-they did not actively seek out the limelight, but they have adjusted to their new public role with dignity.
Both CP Mary,Q Maxima and CP Letizia were highly educated and succesful in their job,they have travelled the world and they are representing their countries in a positive way. Even CP Mette-Marit was working and supporting herself-I do not look down on her because she was working as a waitress,but I rather see her as a young single-mom who has succesfuly managed to raise a young boy and teached him to be a good person.
She is a great role model for those young girls who believe that their past mistakes will define their life forever-because she has managed to live up to the challenges and consequences of her actions and changed her lifestyle to become a responsible,active,positive member of society.


There is a highly interesting study that has researched the effects of so-called "reality" TV-shows on young girls, I believe it is very important to look at these studies and take them seriously.

Here is a link to the study (PDF version):
Research | Publications | Real to Me

Ashley Bush and Raphaela Sapire: What Has Reality TV Done to Young Women?
This article picked up a few points from the Girl Scout-study. Short excerpts from this article:
Among girls who watch reality TV, 72% say they spend a lot of time on their appearance, versus 42% of non-viewers.

Many girls -- 86% -- believe these shows "often pit girls against each other to make the shows more exciting" and 70% say they "make people think it is ok to treat each other badly."
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  #1486  
Old 09-20-2013, 06:14 AM
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In regards to her judgement, this isn't a lapse (in regards to kissing a porn star), this is a lifestyle. Most young women who accidentally expose themselves (or pose for a boyfriend) aren't out doing reality shows or posing for men's magazines. They are going about honest, straightforward lives and they aren't hanging around porn stars as a choice.

I mean, she made out with a porn star and her lifestyle up to then has been something that was leading her to a possible similar career. I wonder where she would be right now if she weren't dating a prince and possibly about to get a ring.
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  #1487  
Old 09-20-2013, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
Sofia is sweet to them because she has to keep them sweet to keep them on her side. I would be wary of someone who is still uninterested in a formal job. She's not living on her own and making her own way. She's living with CP in a large mansion and funded by the taxpayers. Obviously she isn't going to rock that boat by being openly demanding or controlling or at all unpleasant.

She isn't stupid, but I don't think she is sweet as she projects herself to be to the RF and the public (when she is out in public). If she were so sweet and pleasant, why would she push to become a bridesmaid at the wedding of Madeleine, CP pushing to the point where Madeleine decided against bridesmaids and decided in a children's choir? She apparently has no problem injecting herself into events where she has no sensible reason for being there.

Camilla was gentry her whole life.
Ok, so some would day gentry. But it certainly wasn't Sofia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post

Actually, at this point in the game, Camilla is not in a morganatic marriage. Morganatic marriages do not exist in Britain. She is both the Princess of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall because her husband is both Prince of Wales and Duke of Cornwall. She choses to use the lesser of the two titles not because her marriage is morganatic, but out of respect to the memory of her husband's deceased first wife, in respect to his children, and in respect to the many people who loved Diana.

While Sweden may have practiced morganatic marriages in the past it seems like they've moved on from it. Two of the king's three children have entered into marriages with commoners, CP will be the third to do so. As neither Victoria nor Madelaine were required to give up their status or positions and enter into a morganatic marriage, for CP to be expected to if he married Sofia would be the SRF essentially saying "despite the fact that we obviously don't have perfect pasts, we can't consider you to be good enough to be a part of this family on the basis that you partook in activities that - while perfectly legal and really not harming anyone - are considered to be morally reprehensible by foreign citizens."
Well said. I highly doubt they would make Him give up anything or try to make the marriage morgantic. However, I just can't see anyone foreign or native leaping for joy over her.
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  #1488  
Old 09-20-2013, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blauerengel View Post
The teenagers who have committed suicide because they were forced to do things they did not want to do where blackmailed and bullied - I am very sad for every young girl and boy who has died because of being bullied and terrorised in such a shameful way, but I do not think it has very much to do with SH. These boys and girls were forced into exposing their body and doing things that are not in line with their moral values and the way they have been brought up and taught by their parents.
If a woman decides to do nude pictures or participate in certain films as a job (or just for fun) it is her free choice. If it is ok with her own values and self-image, it is alright, everyone knows what is best for them and what they want in life. I just don´t like it when such women (Kim Kardashian, Paris Hilton etc.) are presented as role models that we (girls and women in general) should aspire to follow. It is quite annoying that they are constantly in the media, instead of acchieved,intellectual women who have done something valuable and meaningful with their life- like doctors,scientists,writers,politicians,journalists,lawyers,human rights activists etc.

When young girls constantly see that women are most succesful when they expose their body,date a rich guy and look pretty, I am afraid it is teaching them values that are not going to serve our society very well.
(Not that posing for pictures,looking pretty or dating is a bad thing - but this should not be a "career choice"!)

I wish to see more role models like CP Mary,Q Maxima or even women like CP Mette-Marit and CP Letizia. They are behaving decently,discreet and they have proven to have a very caring,compassionate nature-they did not actively seek out the limelight, but they have adjusted to their new public role with dignity.
Both CP Mary,Q Maxima and CP Letizia were highly educated and succesful in their job,they have travelled the world and they are representing their countries in a positive way. Even CP Mette-Marit was working and supporting herself-I do not look down on her because she was working as a waitress,but I rather see her as a young single-mom who has succesfuly managed to raise a young boy and teached him to be a good person.
She is a great role model for those young girls who believe that their past mistakes will define their life forever-because she has managed to live up to the challenges and consequences of her actions and changed her lifestyle to become a responsible,active,positive member of society.


There is a highly interesting study that has researched the effects of so-called "reality" TV-shows on young girls, I believe it is very important to look at these studies and take them seriously.

Here is a link to the study (PDF version):
Research | Publications | Real to Me

Ashley Bush and Raphaela Sapire: What Has Reality TV Done to Young Women?
This article picked up a few points from the Girl Scout-study. Short excerpts from this article:
Among girls who watch reality TV, 72% say they spend a lot of time on their appearance, versus 42% of non-viewers.

Many girls -- 86% -- believe these shows "often pit girls against each other to make the shows more exciting" and 70% say they "make people think it is ok to treat each other badly."
I want to thank you - I was struggling to put into words my opinion on the matter, her participation in a reality show and such, and the comments of her being a role model. You did it far better than I would have done it. I have no problem with anything Sofia does FOR HERSELF, but to suggest (and I could be wrong) that she is a role model is too much for me. She has actively pursued fame in this manner - she is an adult. I fail to see how she can be a "model" for young women. Model for what??? She chose to pose in suggestive pictorials, she chose to make out with a porn star, that is her business. But I really don't believe she role modelling anything to young women except how to participate in a seedy reality show and pose in pics that objectify women. That is what I see her doing, not being a role model. I could care less if she marries Carl, good for them both, I would wish them well. But she is no role model for God's sake.
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  #1489  
Old 09-20-2013, 03:19 PM
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Some "gossip" news about Carl Philip and Sofia:

http://a.cdn-expressen.se/ImageHandl...t=secondColumn
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  #1490  
Old 09-20-2013, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by principessa View Post
Some "gossip" news about Carl Philip and Sofia:

http://a.cdn-expressen.se/ImageHandl...t=secondColumn
Correct me if I am wrong, but does that mean "Carl forced to leave Sofia"???
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  #1491  
Old 09-20-2013, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by principessa View Post
Some "gossip" news about Carl Philip and Sofia:

http://a.cdn-expressen.se/ImageHandl...t=secondColumn
This Expressen Extra has an article about:
Carl Philips girlfriend Sofia was forced to stay home from the public celebration of the King's 40 years on the throne. EXTRA reveals how it happened when she was stopped.
Nytt nummer av Extra | Om Expressen
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  #1492  
Old 09-20-2013, 04:19 PM
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Is there an English translation of the article available?
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  #1493  
Old 09-20-2013, 04:48 PM
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I wonder how this 'role model' argument in Sofia's favor is just reflexive political correctness.
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  #1494  
Old 09-20-2013, 04:59 PM
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There's no way she could have received this news gleefully. She isn't going to try to stay with this establishment when they obviously don't want her around.
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  #1495  
Old 09-20-2013, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
I wonder how this 'role model' argument in Sofia's favor is just reflexive political correctness.
Actually, I was speaking from personal experience. When I was a teenager, a boy I dated spread some really distasteful rumors about me and I spent months being bullied for it- called all sorts of awful names, and worse- I truly believed that it meant no one would ever care about me again because I was damaged goods. (In my case, the stories weren't even true, but I still had to endure being called a slut, a whore, trashy, worthless etc- which is a lot for a smart, sensitive teenager to take)

There are a lot of girls who grow up hearing that if they do anything perceived as slutty or wrong, they're ruined, and they brought that on themselves, and they'll always be seen as worthless and unworthy of love. It's unique to women too- men are rarely entirely defined by their sexuality in the same way.

I maintain that it would do a lot of good to have more women who manage to publicly shrug off those words and that reputation and go on to do and be whatever and whoever they want, and I think watching Sofia go from nude model to princess might get across the idea that a woman's worth isn't determined by how she chooses to present herself sexually, or by how she's viewed by others.

It's fine to disagree but these are deeply held personal convictions based on life experience, not on "political correctness".
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  #1496  
Old 09-20-2013, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Is there an English translation of the article available?
Or just a link to the article itself. Google translate can translate it well enough for us to understand the gist of it.
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  #1497  
Old 09-20-2013, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post

Actually, I was speaking from personal experience. When I was a teenager, a boy I dated spread some really distasteful rumors about me and I spent months being bullied for it- called all sorts of awful names, and worse- I truly believed that it meant no one would ever care about me again because I was damaged goods. (In my case, the stories weren't even true, but I still had to endure being called a slut, a whore, trashy, worthless etc- which is a lot for a smart, sensitive teenager to take)

There are a lot of girls who grow up hearing that if they do anything perceived as slutty or wrong, they're ruined, and they brought that on themselves, and they'll always be seen as worthless and unworthy of love. It's unique to women too- men are rarely entirely defined by their sexuality in the same way.

I maintain that it would do a lot of good to have more women who manage to publicly shrug off those words and that reputation and go on to do and be whatever and whoever they want, and I think watching Sofia go from nude model to princess might get across the idea that a woman's worth isn't determined by how she chooses to present herself sexually, or by how she's viewed by others.

It's fine to disagree but these are deeply held personal convictions based on life experience, not on "political correctness".
Thank you for sharing your life experience. When people share those types of things it makes more sense. I'll never support Sofia. However I don't want to be a bully either. Who knows what her true story really is.
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  #1498  
Old 09-20-2013, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
This Expressen Extra has an article about:
Carl Philips girlfriend Sofia was forced to stay home from the public celebration of the King's 40 years on the throne. EXTRA reveals how it happened when she was stopped.
Nytt nummer av Extra | Om Expressen

Any way we can get it in English?
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  #1499  
Old 09-20-2013, 10:16 PM
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Something that I wonder about with Sofia, she actually actively pursued a career in the public eye doing whatever she could to be noticed. I wonder what's changed?
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  #1500  
Old 09-20-2013, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Eden View Post
Something that I wonder about with Sofia, she actually actively pursued a career in the public eye doing whatever she could to be noticed. I wonder what's changed? Is she in it for fame or love? I guess that is something we will never know..........
Well, if they marry and spend 20 years together discreetly supporting the family, we'll know it was a genuine shift in priorities.

If they last a year and then she writes a tell all and gets her own reality show, we'll know it wasn't.

Time reveals all :)
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