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  #1401  
Old 09-08-2013, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
Is there a reason CP is uninterested in someone without such massive baggage? There are plenty of young women around who don't have to explain or apologize for their pasts.
Carl Philip had two girlfriends withoug baggage in their past. His first girlfriend Viveca Thott, and his girlfriend for ten years, Emma Pernald.
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  #1402  
Old 09-08-2013, 05:19 AM
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I never said she should be ostracised. And you do bring some good points for me to ponder. No one is perfect, least of all me! Regarding Mabel, she had begun her impressive career 8 years before marrying Friso - she co-founded a council for peace in the Balkans, she worked as an advocate for children caught in war zones, and she was named a "global leader for tomorrow", all before Friso.
Indeed. She finished her masters in Economics and Political Sciences summa cum laude, speaks Dutch, French, Spanish, English and studied Slavic languages, participated in the Dayton agreements, co founded the European Action Council for Peace in the Balkans (with members like Margaret Thatcher, Valery Giscard d'Estaing and Simon Wiesenthal), co-founded Warchild Netherlands, was a diretor of George Soros Open Society Institute all before her engagement. To compare her to a reality show starlet who dresses up to go to charity balls and who goes to Africa once in a while to have her picture taken is almost insulting.

Mabel's (and Friso's mistake) was that she did not inform the then prime minister of her acquentance with a former mobster. Recent research by Hendrik Jan Korterink shows that not Mabel but her friend Ottolien - actually had an affair with the mobster Klaas Bruinsma and that Mabel was butchered by the press and public for nothing (except the statment of a former bodyguard who according to other mobsters mixed their identities, perhaps on purpose).
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  #1403  
Old 09-08-2013, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
Is there a reason CP is uninterested in someone without such massive baggage? There are plenty of young women around who don't have to explain or apologize for their pasts.
Similar can be said of Albert of Belgium, Willem-Alexander, Friso, and even Beatrix of the Netherlands, Cristina and Felipe of Spain, Haakon of Norway, Charles, Andrew, Harry, and even Elizabeth of the UK.

We don't pick who we're attracted to, nor do we pick who we love. It's as simple as that. And is royal watchers should know by now that royals marrying simply because the bride is of an appropriate, seemingly baggage-free background doesn't always work out as planned.
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Old 09-08-2013, 05:36 AM
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The problem with Sofia is not only her bagage. If it would have been a closed period I could live with it. But nothing shows that she wants to reform her life, instead she seems to be driven by the same goal as in the years before: hunger for fame.
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  #1405  
Old 09-08-2013, 05:57 AM
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The problem with Sofia is not only her bagage. If it would have been a closed period I could live with it. But nothing shows that she wants to reform her life, instead she seems to be driven by the same goal as in the years before: hunger for fame.
That's very much your interpretation. She's spent the last few years mostly doing her charity work and being with Carl Philip. She hasn't done any modeling, or appeared on any tv shows or tried to continue that part of her career at all.
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Old 09-08-2013, 06:14 AM
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That's very much your interpretation. She's spent the last few years mostly doing her charity work and being with Carl Philip. She hasn't done any modeling, or appeared on any tv shows or tried to continue that part of her career at all.
Well, Sofia can't have done any modelling anymore, because that kind of modelling she did, she can't do now when she is with Carl Philip. At every event she attends, she tries to get in front of the camera as much as possible.
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:12 AM
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People say that about every royal ladies, they say that all Mary does is search for the camera. When people goes to these events they are mostly surrounded by camera, so no matter where they look it will look like they are searching or trying to be in front of the camera
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  #1408  
Old 09-08-2013, 12:28 PM
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Well, Sofia can't have done any modelling anymore, because that kind of modelling she did, she can't do now when she is with Carl Philip. At every event she attends, she tries to get in front of the camera as much as possible.
She could still model- she has the looks to do swimsuit work and other types of modeling. She chooses not to. She could have also tried to do television work, or still be actively seeking a career that puts her in the spotlight but she hasn't- she's been focusing on Project Playground.

And people sniff at that and say she's just trying to turn herself into a princess, but if she wasn't focusing on her charity and she was still working on another career, people would be saying she doesn't care enough to even do a little charity work.

And people here say that at every event she attends she tries to get in front of the camera as much as possible but I've never seen any evidence of that. Every event she attends is heavily photographed and there are tons of photos of all of the women there.
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  #1409  
Old 09-08-2013, 12:29 PM
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Indeed. She finished her masters in Economics and Political Sciences summa cum laude, speaks Dutch, French, Spanish, English and studied Slavic languages, participated in the Dayton agreements, co founded the European Action Council for Peace in the Balkans (with members like Margaret Thatcher, Valery Giscard d'Estaing and Simon Wiesenthal), co-founded Warchild Netherlands, was a diretor of George Soros Open Society Institute all before her engagement. To compare her to a reality show starlet who dresses up to go to charity balls and who goes to Africa once in a while to have her picture taken is almost insulting.

Mabel's (and Friso's mistake) was that she did not inform the then prime minister of her acquentance with a former mobster. Recent research by Hendrik Jan Korterink shows that not Mabel but her friend Ottolien - actually had an affair with the mobster Klaas Bruinsma and that Mabel was butchered by the press and public for nothing (except the statment of a former bodyguard who according to other mobsters mixed their identities, perhaps on purpose).
Wow...Mabel sounds like an impressive woman indeed. I had no idea she was so brilliant and accomplished!

I never paid much attention to her, even during the controversy surrounding her engagement. It was her "unique" wedding gown that made me initially take notice of her.

It's a shame the way the scandal over the mobster overshadowed everything. In terms of intelligence and accomplished it sounds like Mabel is in a very small, select group of women who have married into European Royalty.
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  #1410  
Old 09-08-2013, 01:35 PM
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She could still model- she has the looks to do swimsuit work and other types of modeling. She chooses not to. She could have also tried to do television work, or still be actively seeking a career that puts her in the spotlight but she hasn't- she's been focusing on Project Playground.

And people sniff at that and say she's just trying to turn herself into a princess, but if she wasn't focusing on her charity and she was still working on another career, people would be saying she doesn't care enough to even do a little charity work.

And people here say that at every event she attends she tries to get in front of the camera as much as possible but I've never seen any evidence of that. Every event she attends is heavily photographed and there are tons of photos of all of the women there.

Well, if she just chose voluntarily to quit the modelling/tv stuff at the moment or if she was "advised" by the Palace is not known to us. I believe it to be the latter.
Also I wonder how she earns her living at the moment as I don't believe she can live from her Project Playground work.
About that she seeks the camera: For me her non-stop-posing at Madeleine's wedding is evidence enough. Of course she can not prevent to be photographed but it's the way she deals with it. She also loves to talk with the press which is her way to get spotlight now, whereas I think she should take one ore two steps back and stay rather discreetly in the background.

In my opinion of course.
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  #1411  
Old 09-08-2013, 01:57 PM
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Has western society degenerated that much that we can't look at a piece of skin anymore without thinking of sex?
Is the problem with the piece of skin here or with your way of thinking?
Yes, for some more puritanical westerners nudity or partial nudity immediately implies sex, although generally this rule only applies to female flesh. A topless male does not excite the same passions, which is probably why courts in Ontario ruled it is perfectly legal for a bare breasted woman to walk down the same public streets as a bare chested man. Bare flesh only implies sexuality if you want it to, if not it is just bare flesh and nothing to get too worked up about.
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  #1412  
Old 09-08-2013, 02:10 PM
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Yes, for some more puritanical westerners nudity or partial nudity immediately implies sex, although generally this rule only applies to female flesh. A topless male does not excite the same passions, which is probably why courts in Ontario ruled it is perfectly legal for a bare breasted woman to walk down the same public streets as a bare chested man. Bare flesh only implies sexuality if you want it to, if not it is just bare flesh and nothing to get too worked up about.
I am from the United States and to a point I agree with you, but not all of us are like that. Here what disturbs me is the equating of sex and violence in American films. Hollywood gets all up in arms about nudity, then turns around and allows such over the top violence it's sickening. But I agree, there is a double standard. My husband is French and he has been to plenty of beaches like Nice where nudity is common, yet when I first knew him I was taken aback. I'm better now LOL
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Old 09-09-2013, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Yes, for some more puritanical westerners nudity or partial nudity immediately implies sex, although generally this rule only applies to female flesh. A topless male does not excite the same passions, which is probably why courts in Ontario ruled it is perfectly legal for a bare breasted woman to walk down the same public streets as a bare chested man. Bare flesh only implies sexuality if you want it to, if not it is just bare flesh and nothing to get too worked up about.
I can't speak for any "puritanical westerners", but for me a young nude woman with her legs apart across the front seat of a convertible implies sex. Same thing when she is nude and on her knees handcuffed behind her back as she gazes provocatively at the camera over her shoulder.

Those are just a couple of the poses Sofia has done. If they don't "imply sex" and are not intended to be provocative and sexually stimulating what are you suggesting is the point of them...advertisement for pasta? Ikea furniture?

It's very disingenuous, not to mention tiresome, to keep coming here and reading the implication that those of us who find SH's "glamour" modeling distasteful are prudes who have a problem with nudity.

That's not the case at all. I have spent two thirds of my life living in one of the most liberal cities in the nation, exposed to everything under the sun. If it was anyone else, the type of photography SH did would be described as exactly what it is.... soft pornography.
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  #1414  
Old 09-09-2013, 11:27 AM
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I can't speak for any "puritanical westerners", but for me a young nude woman with her legs apart across the front seat of a convertible implies sex. Same thing when she is nude and on her knees handcuffed behind her back as she gazes provocatively at the camera over her shoulder.

Those are just a couple of the poses Sofia has done. If they don't "imply sex" and are not intended to be provocative and sexually stimulating what are you suggesting is the point of them...advertisement for pasta? Ikea furniture?

It's very disingenuous, not to mention tiresome, to keep coming here and reading the implication that those of us who find SH's "glamour" modeling distasteful are prudes who have a problem with nudity.

That's not the case at all. I have spent two thirds of my life living in one of the most liberal cities in the nation, exposed to everything under the sun. If it was anyone else, the type of photography SH did would be described as exactly what it is.... soft pornography.
Legs splayed and handcuffs certainly do not imbue me with a sense of class or decorum. And I agree with you - I am certainly not a prude, but splayed legs and handcuffs??? Okay, whatever, but that's not my thing and that doesn't make me weird or a prude. Selective, yes. It is offensive to me as a woman. It is buying into the media objectifying women, and that's done enough already and needs to stop. If anything Sofia is doing that. And I don't like it. Period.
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Old 09-09-2013, 11:35 AM
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Exactly Andolini. It's Sofia herself who has objectified women, not those of us who have strong reservations about her. She only stopped because as Marengo pointed out, she and her handlers are on a mission to whitewash her and sell her as a worthy wife to a Royal prince.

It reminds me of Jay Z, after making a career and many millions of dollars writing song lyrics that reeked of misogyny and contempt for women suddenly deciding to stop...not because it was disgusting and wrong, but because HE had become the father of a daughter!
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  #1416  
Old 09-09-2013, 11:37 AM
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Exactly Andolini. It's Sofia herself who has objectified women, not those of us who have strong reservations about her. She only stopped because as Marengo pointed out, she and her handlers are on a mission to whitewash her and sell her as a worthy wife to a Royal prince.

It reminds me of Jay Z, after making a career and many millions of dollars writing song lyrics that reeked of misogyny and contempt for women suddenly deciding to stop...not because it was disgusting and wrong, but because HE had become the father of a daughter!
Sofia has not "objectified women". Women do not objectify ourselves. Women are objectified when someone chooses to treat them as objects rather than as fully human, and all women deserve better than that.
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Old 09-09-2013, 11:37 AM
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Exactly Andolini. It's Sofia herself who has objectified women, not those of us who have strong reservations about her. She only stopped because as Marengo pointed out, she and her handlers are on a mission to whitewash her and sell her as a worthy wife to a Royal prince.

It reminds me of Jay Z, after making a career and many millions of dollars writing song lyrics that reeked of misogyny and contempt for women suddenly deciding to stop...not because it was disgusting and wrong, but because HE had become the father of a daughter!
I remember that!!! My reaction was - why didn't he stop in the first place? I mean, okay, good for him, but it takes having a child??? Having a wife did not stop him? Last time I checked Beyonce is female LOL.

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Sofia has not "objectified women". Women do not objectify ourselves. Women are objectified when someone chooses to treat them as objects rather than as fully human, and all women deserve better than that.
She posed willingly for those pics - but she is not responsible for objectifying women? How is that her choice not objectifying women?? Was she forced? She needs to take personal responsibility, no one forced her at gunpoint to do those things.
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Old 09-09-2013, 11:43 AM
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She posed willingly for those pics - but she is not responsible for objectifying women? How is that her choice not objectifying women?? Was she forced? She needs to take personal responsibility, no one forced her at gunpoint to do those things.
Because she is a woman. Because even women who pose naked and are openly sexual still deserve to be treated as fully human, and the fact that she's chosen to pose does not excuse anyone who chooses to objectify her or to objectify other women.
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Old 09-09-2013, 11:44 AM
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I wouldn't mind a thing about Sofia. She is an independent woman who can do everything she wants. But when someone comes to the world's spotlight, he/she has to accept criticism, because it is the price of being famous.
I very much like to hear the couple's engagement if that is what they want , but I hate to see her doing charities in order to show herself as a worthy wife for a prince as Moonmaiden pointed out.
Every time I see her doing charities it only looks like she is doing it for getting attention that she does care for the good of the needy people, not that she does it from the bottom of her heart.
And that is disappointing.
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Old 09-09-2013, 11:47 AM
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Because she is a woman. Because even women who pose naked and are openly sexual still deserve to be treated as fully human, and the fact that she's chosen to pose does not excuse anyone who chooses to objectify her or to objectify other women.
Of course I agree with that, that was not my point and I apologize if my post seemed murky. I was simply saying that no one forced her to do the pics so she is also responsible. The pics, to me, are lurid. Doesn't make me a prude. If she was forced in some way to do those then I feel sorry for her, but she is an adult and is responsible for the choices she makes in life. Splayed legs and handcuffs don't exactly project innocent sexuality to some people, like me.
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