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  #961  
Old 03-27-2013, 04:24 AM
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I'm assuming we're talking about the snake pics. FWIW, I certainly don't classify them as porn.
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  #962  
Old 03-27-2013, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Based on the pictures that I've seen, Sofia hasn't actually been in porn.

Pictures that simply feature nudity are not porn. There are 3 different forms of nude photos that can be taken: glamour photos, soft core pornography photos, and hardcore pornography pictures.

Glamour photos feature subjects portrayed in romantic or sexually alluring ways - they may be clothed or semi nude. The intent is not to deliberately arouse the viewer.

Pornographic photos are photos that explicitly display sexual subject matter for the intent of arousing the viewer. In porn sexual acts are shot - in soft core in a more suggestive manner, and in hardcore in a more explicit manner.

In short - suggestive photos that don't display any sex are glamour, photos that suggestively display sex are softcore porn, and photos that explicitly display sex are hardcore porn.

What Sofia did in Slits is glamour, not porn.
Very precise definitions, and for those who have only seen the 'Slitz' bikini and snake photos of Sofia Hellqvist, certainly an accurate assessment (though I can’t quite see the ‘glamour’ part in them).

But her many photos taken when she was sixteen are definitely borderline soft porn, IMHO; the poses are far too suggestive to not have the purpose of what you’re calling 'the intent of arousing the viewer'. The fact that she actually looks younger than sixteen in the pics and that the series includes some bondage-like imagery leaves a rather bad aftertaste.

The same goes for the series of nude pics taken much later in New York where she was living with a boyfriend and his child shortly before she started to date Prince Carl Philip; in that photo shoot, everything is intended to arouse and present a kinky atmosphere, including fetish elements, and nothing hints at 'romantic' or 'glamour'.

Still, I agree with 'blauerengel' above:
The most worrying aspect about her is not that these photos exist (although they would be all over the media once an official engagement should occur and cauzse damage no matter what) but that these photos are part of a single-minded but unsuccessful determination to become famous which appears to have been her only real ambition in life until she met the Prince – and which might still be her major motivation after meeting him.
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  #963  
Old 03-27-2013, 07:06 AM
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A lot of people make mistakes in their lives and some people just go about exploring life more differently than others. Some people make their mistakes and then move on in their lives.

Sofia is now in a good place in her life, from what I see. She went on to open a studio and started to teach yoga in New York. She has gone on to co found a charity in Africa that help those in need. She works hard with others in raising money for her charity. From what I see, she's in a loving relationship with a young man who just happens to be a prince.

Is she not allowed to move on and be happy with the person she love and who love her? Or should she be bashed, punished and thrown in a dungeon forever because of what she did in her young and green days?

From what I see, Carl Philip and his family isn't punishing her for something she did before she met them. They are embracing her for who she is today and not holding the past against her.

Even if she liked the idea of fame a little, tell me who don't. The other European princesses do their official duties very well and believe in duty to their family, country and the people but I think they also enjoy the glamour, noterity, prestige and honor that goes along with the job. Even Princess Maxima have admitted that being royal is a pretty nice job at the time William & Catherine's engagement.

If had the chance to become a Prince, I wouldn't complain about it but rise to the occasion and enjoy the ride. That's just me.
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  #964  
Old 03-27-2013, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
A lot of people make mistakes in their lives and some people just go about exploring life more differently than others. Some people make their mistakes and then move on in their lives.

Sofia is now in a good place in her life, from what I see. She went on to open a studio and started to teach yoga in New York. She has gone on to co found a charity in Africa that help those in need. She works hard with others in raising money for her charity. From what I see, she's in a loving relationship with a young man who just happens to be a prince.

Is she not allowed to move on and be happy with the person she love and who love her? Or should she be bashed, punished and thrown in a dungeon forever because of what she did in her young and green days?

From what I see, Carl Philip and his family isn't punishing her for something she did before she met them. They are embracing her for who she is today and not holding the past against her.

Even if she liked the idea of fame a little, tell me who don't. The other European princesses do their official duties very well and believe in duty to their family, country and the people but I think they also enjoy the glamour, noterity, prestige and honor that goes along with the job. Even Princess Maxima have admitted that being royal is a pretty nice job at the time William & Catherine's engagement.

If had the chance to become a Prince, I wouldn't complain about it but rise to the occasion and enjoy the ride. That's just me.
Sorry, but with all respect, I can't say that Sofia is working hard, she is far from hard-working people, at least there are members of royal families who work harder with less publicity. I admit she is working in this field of charity and she does her best, but she is not Mother Teresa in the real proportions of work. In our age of humanity there is nothing new in the connexion of different celebrities with charity organizations, so Sofia is not new here and after all the rumours she needed a good PR company. She does not have any specific achieviements besides her beauty and working as a model and now she is working at improving her image.
I think their engagement will be announced before the end of the year.
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  #965  
Old 03-27-2013, 08:40 AM
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She's the co-founder of a charity, not a patron. There a big difference
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  #966  
Old 03-27-2013, 10:03 AM
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I never said Sofia is a saint. I'm saying that she's doing good things with her life now. It's not easy to help run a charity. That takes hard work.
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  #967  
Old 03-27-2013, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Boris View Post
Very precise definitions, and for those who have only seen the 'Slitz' bikini and snake photos of Sofia Hellqvist, certainly an accurate assessment (though I can’t quite see the ‘glamour’ part in them).

But her many photos taken when she was sixteen are definitely borderline soft porn, IMHO; the poses are far too suggestive to not have the purpose of what you’re calling 'the intent of arousing the viewer'. The fact that she actually looks younger than sixteen in the pics and that the series includes some bondage-like imagery leaves a rather bad aftertaste.

The same goes for the series of nude pics taken much later in New York where she was living with a boyfriend and his child shortly before she started to date Prince Carl Philip; in that photo shoot, everything is intended to arouse and present a kinky atmosphere, including fetish elements, and nothing hints at 'romantic' or 'glamour'.

Still, I agree with 'blauerengel' above:
The most worrying aspect about her is not that these photos exist (although they would be all over the media once an official engagement should occur and cauzse damage no matter what) but that these photos are part of a single-minded but unsuccessful determination to become famous which appears to have been her only real ambition in life until she met the Prince – and which might still be her major motivation after meeting him.
Well written, I totally agree. Her interviews, nude photos, the reality-show, posing in hundreds of photos at the celebrity parties and kissing Jenna Jameson tell at least to me of a strong desire to be famous in any way. And there is also quite provocative bikini-photos obviously taken in January 2010, when she already had been Carl Philip's girlfriend for some time.
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  #968  
Old 03-27-2013, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by miche View Post
She's the co-founder of a charity, not a patron. There a big difference
But is she really? I mean, I think we had this discussion before. From what I remember, it was pointed out she not necessarily is, to quote the below, from 11-02-2012, 01:24 PM :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris View Post
Most interesting...
...because in earlier press releases until last year, for example about the PP activity during the Volvo Ocean Race, 'Project Playground' used to be founded in 2009.
But apparently it was co-founded once more by two people in 2010... which allows to omit any timeline before and is a nice example of what I meant by 're-writing history'.
Seems that Frida Vesterberg is truly a very good friend.
So, now, my question still remains the same as back in November of 2012: is she really a co-founder, or was the history re-written to make her look like one?
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  #969  
Old 03-27-2013, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Cinderella5x View Post
So, now, my question still remains the same as back in November of 2012: is she really a co-founder, or was the history re-written to make her look like one?
That is an interesting question, maybe some reporter will some time dig the truth out of it.

Svensk Damtidning has a big article of Sofia's family, here is the cover of the magazine.
Large survey of the clan Hellqvist
Sofia becomes his princess!
Here is your new family, Carl Philip
SDT1314_
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  #970  
Old 03-27-2013, 12:15 PM
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Perhaps the charity needed to be revamped and Sofia helped do that.

It really don't matter anyway because Project Playground seem to be doing pretty good on helping those in need. The charity is doing what it suppose to do and the founders are working hard to keep everything going.
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  #971  
Old 03-27-2013, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Perhaps the charity needed to be revamped and Sofia helped do that.

It really don't matter anyway because Project Playground seem to be doing pretty good on helping those in need. The charity is doing what it suppose to do and the founders are working hard to keep everything going.
That wouldn't make her the co-founder now, would it? It would still be founded by one person and just renewed with Sofia's help.

Well, it seems it matters, as Sofia as a co-founder is being used to defend her and to present her as a close to a saint. So, if she really isn't a co-founder, that means those arguments were not true.

Founders or founder, that was my question, not if the charity is doing a good job. We are talking Sofia here, not the charity itself. I am certain charity would have done pretty good job without Sofia on board as well.
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  #972  
Old 03-27-2013, 12:41 PM
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Oh good gawd! So she wanted to be famous, who cares. It was years ago and once again CP and his family appear to not be threatened by her past actions or desire to be famous. Perhaps she has grown up and gotten over the superficial desire. I am so tired of having to say this, but if CP has no problem with her past ambitions then that is all that matters. Unfortunately people on this board think they can dictate what Carl Philip does and who he marries.
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  #973  
Old 03-27-2013, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
I am so tired of having to say this, but if CP has no problem with her past ambitions then that is all that matters.
IMHO very incorrect, as Carl Philip's last name happens to be not Svensson but Bernadotte... and incorrect also because the Swedish people finance at least part of his and his girlfriend's life.
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  #974  
Old 03-27-2013, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
Oh good gawd! So she wanted to be famous, who cares. It was years ago and once again CP and his family appear to not be threatened by her past actions or desire to be famous. Perhaps she has grown up and gotten over the superficial desire. I am so tired of having to say this, but if CP has no problem with her past ambitions then that is all that matters. Unfortunately people on this board think they can dictate what Carl Philip does and who he marries.
It could well be that the king and the queen will be questioned quite inconvenient questions after the possible engagement. The queen speeks very strongly against child pornography, child abuse and trafficking. The king has spoken against the reality shows in the past.

About Project Playground, at the beginning Project Playground was registered to the address of Frida's father Lars. Frida Vesterberg has a wealthy husband, whose friends have also donated to PP.
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  #975  
Old 03-27-2013, 12:56 PM
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Despite who financies who, If Carl Philip decide to marry Sofia, he will do so and there's nothing any of us on this board can do about it. He will do as he see fit.

Also, just because Sofia co-founded a charity does not mean anyone is trying to make her out to be a saint or even close to one. From the pictures and little videos I have seen, Sofia and others are doing this stuff from their hearts and caring about those children. Even Carl Philip believe in this charity and just the other day helping out raising money at the charity's dinner.
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  #976  
Old 03-27-2013, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Despite who financies who, If Carl Philip decide to marry Sofia, he will do so and there's nothing any of us on this board can do about it. He will do as he see fit.

Also, just because Sofia co-founded a charity does not mean anyone is trying to make her out to be a saint or even close to one. From the pictures and little videos I have seen, Sofia and others are doing this stuff from their hearts and caring about those children. Even Carl Philip believe in this charity and just the other day helping out raising money at the charity's dinner.
But you just proved my point: even though it doesn't seem Sofia really co-founded Project Playground, you still use the "Sofia co-founded a charity" argument to defend her.

If, in fact, she did co-founded it, I will gladly admit I was wrong. But it doesn't look like it now.
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  #977  
Old 03-27-2013, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Boris View Post
Very precise definitions, and for those who have only seen the 'Slitz' bikini and snake photos of Sofia Hellqvist, certainly an accurate assessment (though I can’t quite see the ‘glamour’ part in them).

But her many photos taken when she was sixteen are definitely borderline soft porn, IMHO; the poses are far too suggestive to not have the purpose of what you’re calling 'the intent of arousing the viewer'. The fact that she actually looks younger than sixteen in the pics and that the series includes some bondage-like imagery leaves a rather bad aftertaste.

The same goes for the series of nude pics taken much later in New York where she was living with a boyfriend and his child shortly before she started to date Prince Carl Philip; in that photo shoot, everything is intended to arouse and present a kinky atmosphere, including fetish elements, and nothing hints at 'romantic' or 'glamour'.

Still, I agree with 'blauerengel' above:
The most worrying aspect about her is not that these photos exist (although they would be all over the media once an official engagement should occur and cauzse damage no matter what) but that these photos are part of a single-minded but unsuccessful determination to become famous which appears to have been her only real ambition in life until she met the Prince – and which might still be her major motivation after meeting him.
The idea is basically that porn depicts sex, while glamour does not - the pictures taken in "glamour" shots may not be all that glamourous to you or I, but that's what it's called.

Unless Sofia has had photos taken of her engaging in an actual sex act she is not a porn model, she's a glamour model.

What's more is that I highly doubt photos taken of her at age 16 are (or were intended to be) porn. The age of consent for porn in most countries (including Sweden) is 18.
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  #978  
Old 03-27-2013, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
Oh good gawd! So she wanted to be famous, who cares. It was years ago and once again CP and his family appear to not be threatened by her past actions or desire to be famous. Perhaps she has grown up and gotten over the superficial desire. I am so tired of having to say this, but if CP has no problem with her past ambitions then that is all that matters. Unfortunately people on this board think they can dictate what Carl Philip does and who he marries.
You're funny. Of course were not dictating Carl Philip. We're merely looking out for his best interests.

No offense, and I've said this before, but people like you are hypocrites cause you bash people like Paris Hilton and the Kardashians and you uplift people like Sofia. That to me is wrong.

Quote:
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The idea is basically that porn depicts sex, while glamour does not - the pictures taken in "glamour" shots may not be all that glamourous to you or I, but that's what it's called.

Unless Sofia has had photos taken of her engaging in an actual sex act she is not a porn model, she's a glamour model.

What's more is that I highly doubt photos taken of her at age 16 are (or were intended to be) porn. The age of consent for porn in most countries (including Sweden) is 18.
I've seen nude photos in W magazine and Vogue where the goal is to emphasize the jewelry or hair design... that's a glamour shot. Sofia's pics in my opinion were not glamour in any way. They were basically there for the reader, who are mostly men, btw. So I wouldn't say they were full blown porn pics but they definitely were headed that way. Just so you know, you don't have to be engaging in a sexual act in your photo for it to be considered porn. A naked woman in a racy magazine is proof of that alone.
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  #979  
Old 03-27-2013, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by CrownPrincess5 View Post

You're funny. Of course were not dictating Carl Philip. We're merely looking out for his best interests.

No offense, and I've said this before, but people like you are hypocrites cause you bash people like Paris Hilton and the Kardashians and you uplift people like Sofia. That to me is wrong.

I've seen nude photos in W magazine and Vogue where the goal is to emphasize the jewelry or hair design... that's a glamour shot. Sofia's pics in my opinion were not glamour in any way. They were basically there for the reader, who are mostly men, btw. So I wouldn't say they were full blown porn pics but they definitely were headed that way. Just so you know, you don't have to be engaging in a sexual act in your photo for it to be considered porn. A naked woman in a racy magazine is proof of that alone.
I think it's a bit ridiculous to think you can look out for the best interest of a man you don't know because you think a woman that you also don't know isn't good enough for him. I would assume Carl Philip and his close family are more than capable of looking out for his best interests and they seem to have accepted Sofia and welcome her to family events.
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:59 PM
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The same arguments go round and round on this thread every couple of weeks. Obviously some people can never forget or forgive what Sofia (or presumably anyone) did in her younger days so she will never ever be acceptable to them. Sad really. Others are prepared to let by gones be by gones and let her move on with her life. I fall into the latter camp. Right now CP & Sofia are a couple and seem happy together. She has holidayed with his parents in the south of France and attended a couple of events with his family and is presumably learning a bit about what life would be like as a member of that family. Obviously his family know about her past and have not found it so repugnant that they have refused to be seen with her or associate with her. Time will tell if the relationship leads to marriage or not. It may turn out that CP is a seriel monogamist not interested in marriage which is a valid choice.
Sofia certainly would not be the first royal date/fiancee that people found unacceptable, just read pretty much any relationship/engagement threads on these forums), for various reasons yet once the I Do's were said people seem to have gotten past their objections for the most part. Once the ladies have been put in a ballgown, tiara and royal order people seem to go quite gaga. Probably the same would happen with CP & Sofia.
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