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  #21  
Old 04-28-2012, 11:56 AM
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Thanks for explanation, LadyFinn and Boris.
However, since Svensk Dam Tidning isn't the only source that points towards an "imminent" engagement, this particular article probably won't be one of the blunders.
On the other hand, the parts about Queen Silvia's opinion about Sofia and the Queen's thoughts - how on Earth would they know that , unless the Queen confided in the newspapers or its "sources" (and I don't believe that for a second)?
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  #22  
Old 04-28-2012, 12:09 PM
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Sofia looks lovely on those fotos - but nevertheless, there shouldn't be any fotos like that from a member of a royal family and anyone who want's to be taken serious in his/her professional work.

I think they both should step down an be 'private people' whithout official duties.

Imagine they would do a tour of the middle east. .no one would take him or her serious - they would be laughing stock - or worst - other person would feel offended and not honoured by them.

Bad idea
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  #23  
Old 04-29-2012, 11:41 PM
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Perspective..

I think we have to remember that the senior royals will be Victoria's children, and eventually Estelle's. If Sofia does marry Prince Carl Philip, which I think she will, I think it is safe to assume they will take on eventually less and less work. The King has four sisters as we all know, who do relatively little public work. Prince Carl Philip, as Victoria assumes the throne, will be in that role. He will live his role much more as a private citizen.

So I totally see the discussion about whether or not Sofia is "royal" material, but I do think in the end it won't be an issue for much time at all.

Anyway...been enjoying reading this thread...just wanted to add a different perspective.
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  #24  
Old 04-30-2012, 12:13 AM
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Do remember that it will take 18 years until Estelle will be expected participate in any major royal events and until then there will without doubt be a need for more than two royal ladies, Silvia and Victoria, especially if Madeleine marries and settles in the U.S. The queen will be 70 next year and can't be expected to be able to continue with her royal duties until Estelle can take over, so whomever Carl Philip marries will most likely have to take part in royal events until then.
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  #25  
Old 04-30-2012, 12:54 AM
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Hasn't Sofia proven that she is willing and able to work for the SRF? I ask because a part from the constant whining about her past, I don't hear a lot about what she does on this board.
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  #26  
Old 04-30-2012, 03:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi
Hasn't Sofia proven that she is willing and able to work for the SRF? I ask because a part from the constant whining about her past, I don't hear a lot about what she does on this board.
People whine about that as well, they say the work she does is fake and only spurred because she wants to catch the Prince.
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  #27  
Old 04-30-2012, 03:22 AM
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All work that benefits others is good work but the whole set up looks fake to me. Sofia is all about attention, only this time she chose the "right" attention (not by posing with a snake and even worse) but as a charity person what will possibly make her eligible for becoming royalty.

That is what puts me off most - her desire for attention and doing whatever is needed to get it. Wanna be famous? - Take your clothes off or get on a celebrity show or both. Wanna marry a Prince - Present yourself as a suitable spouse who has a heart for the needy. If she had to become a singer or actress in order to become famous I am sure we would see pictures everyday of Sofia carrying books to acting lessons or posing in front of the recording studio during the day and with famous singers at partys at night. You have to be very determined to become famous if you are willing to do what Sofia did (posing borderline pornography) as a minor.

Nothing is about any cause, its all about HER.
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  #28  
Old 04-30-2012, 04:16 AM
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what i understand is that carl philip and madeleine has woved to help victoria in her work, i think they will have a part in royal duties for the yeras until victoria and daniels children can take on royal duties

in a interview carl philip were asked what he thoght he saw himself as, he said he is first of all a prince, then designer
  #29  
Old 04-30-2012, 05:30 AM
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I don't doubt that Madeleine (and Carl Philip) will help Victoria, but how much she will be able to help with the day-to-day work will entirely depend on if she is living in Sweden or not. If she stays in the U.S. after she marries and has a family of her own it won't be that easy to "pop over" to Sweden for royal duties.
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Old 04-30-2012, 05:41 AM
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She will have a similar life like her aunt Birgitta, who lives in Spain. Every now and then she will come to Sweden for her own royal events for family events but will not play any important role in the SRF.
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  #31  
Old 04-30-2012, 09:04 AM
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I can imagine the Carl Phillip (and his spouse ) really supports CP Victoria in future years. But I do not see that for Prss Madeleine.

Assuming that the current situation will both lead in a marriage, Madeleine will (most probably) stay in the US and fly to Sweden 3 times a year to do some public duties, that´s it .... so no real help.
Whereas Carl Philipp will stay in Sweden and he even may take over some more patronages, same as Sofia. I even believe, that she will be quite good in it.... she definately is beautiful and worked hard on herself do get some dignity and a more princessian look and behaviour.
Whereas somebody is referring to the Middle East or similar - going to another country for a public visit may always imply that the media is printing the old pics again. That is her problem, that you cannot hide your past in modern Internet times.

BYe Bine
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  #32  
Old 04-30-2012, 10:19 AM
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i do not know sofia cant tell if she is a good person or not - posing naked i do not think a person is a bad person for that, maybe not best history to come into a royal family.

but she posing naked verses mette-marit taking drugs - i think mette-marit has done very well being crown princess of norway.

i am just saying

she can do a great job
  #33  
Old 04-30-2012, 02:59 PM
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I'm fairly traditional person so posing naked is a big no for me.
However, I still think Sofia deserves a chance - only one, mind you; if she does anything potentially embarrassing for the Royal Family, then it would be obvious she hasn't learn from her mistakes.

I've been going through old discussions here and one thing caught my eyes; before her engagement to Prince Joachim was announced, Marie was criticised for being attention-seeker and even gold-digger as well. Now, I'm not comparing Marie and Sofia; the former has never made any of the latter's bad life choices and certainly didn't pose naked with a snake. On the other hand, our opinions are based on subjective reporting; for all we know, Sofia may be a genuinely nice woman who made mistakes and is eager to correct her mistakes and embark on a new life with the man she loves. Of course, she could also be an attention-seeker intent on bagging a Prince.
  #34  
Old 04-30-2012, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
I'm fairly traditional person so posing naked is a big turn off for me.
However, I still think Sofia deserves a chance - only one, mind you; if she does anything potentially embarrassing for the Royal Family, then it would be obvious she hasn't learn from her mistakes.

I've been going through old discussions here and one thing caught my eyes; before her engagement to Prince Joachim was announced, Marie was criticised for being attention-seeker and even gold-digger as well. Now, I'm not comparing Marie and Sofia; the former has never made any of the latter's bad life choices and certainly didn't pose naked with a snake. On the other hand, our opinions are based on subjective reporting; for all we know, Sofia may be a genuinely nice woman who made mistakes and is eager to correct her mistakes and embark on a new life with the man she loves. Of course, she could also be an attention-seeker intent on bagging a Prince.


Yes but also remember that Marie was being interviewed or asked for comments by Danish journalists. Perhaps they tricked her since she was a foreigner and possibly misunderstood something they asked, and she responded in a certain way.
Sofia is a Swede. This is her royal family so she should have more of an idea of when a royal significant other should be talking to the press, compared to Marie who grew up in a republic.
Most of the opinions of the posters on this thread do not come from quotes in a newspaper, like they did for Marie early on, but Sofia's "writings" on her very own twitter [thus, not edited by someone else] and pictures from her youth that were taken with her consent.
There are tow questions here: should the King give his permission to a marriage between C-P and Sofia; and should Sofia be given a title as a member of the SRF, and thus become a representative of Sweden? As someone previously pointed out, it would be hugely hypocritical of a King with his own scandal to deny C-P the right to marry the-girl-with-a-past Sofia. I'm not disputing that. I think they should get married if they want to get married. But she shouldn't be given a title and not officially represent Sweden.
The King and Royal House can save themselves from controversy by removing C-P's title for "professional reasons", ā la Martha Louise of Norway. Then Sofia wouldn't get the female equivalent of C-P's title. Also, if Madeleine's Chris doesn't get the full male equivalent of her title, it is discrimination. Here's another excuse why Sofia wouldn't get the title of princess when she is married.
I'm not old-fashioned in the least bit, and the naked photos don't personally bother me, but Sofia is not marrying a non-reigning royal. C-P has responsibilities to the Swedish State and Swedish people, and those will exist until there is a referendum that abolishes those responsibilities.
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  #35  
Old 05-01-2012, 01:36 AM
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The king of Sweden have no constitutional rights to ennoble a commoner, the only title a royal spouse can get is prince/princess and/or duke/duchess. Nor does the possibility of a morganatic marriage exist in Sweden.

There is a possibility that a future spouse of Carl Philip will not get the title of princess of Sweden and only become duchess of Värmland, not because of her past but because of the fact that when Madeleine got engaged to Jonas Bergström it was announced that his future title would be Mr. Jonas Bergström, duke of Hälsingland and Gästrikland. To give the spouse of Carl Philip the title princess of Sweden while not give the spouse of Madeleine the title of prince of Sweden would be considered as sexist, as both Carl Philip and Madeleine have equal rights when it comes to the throne and their spouses should not be treated differently just because one of them is male and the other female.
I don't understand. How is it sexist because Madeleine's husband won't be styled a prince? I thought the only way a man could be styled as prince is if he's married to a queen or future queen. Isn't that how it works? This is how it is in every other royal family, I don't see why the SRF is any different.

I'm sure Carl Philips wife will be styled princess, just like Princess Marie. That is if she doesn't have a terribly muddy past
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  #36  
Old 05-01-2012, 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted by CrownPrincess5 View Post
I don't understand. How is it sexist because Madeleine's husband won't be styled a prince? I thought the only way a man could be styled as prince is if he's married to a queen or future queen. Isn't that how it works? This is how it is in every other royal family, I don't see why the SRF is any different.
Sweden was the first country with equal primogeniture, and one consequence of that is that all children, regardless of sex, should have same rights of passing their title to their spouses and children. Before 1980 only Swedish princes got the title of duke, Victoria and Madeleine were the first duchesses suo jure in Sweden. This fact is a break with earlier traditions where the female spouse automatically got her husband's title or in case of a royal princess lost her title when she married a non-royal spouse. This break should also be reflected in an equal treatment of future royal spouses when it comes to what title a spouse will get. As Sweden is country where equal rights for men and women is an important matter, there will be quite a lot of protests if there will be an unequal treatment for titles for the spouses of Carl Philip and Madeleine, and as the SRF and the king have the lowest popularity numbers ever (with the exception of Victoria) they can't really afford it. (That the spouse of a future monarch should be titled diffrently from the spouses of junior members of the royal family is a different discussion.)

There will most likely be a similiar discussion in the other monarchies with equal primogenture in the future, but that discussion will most likely wait for at least 10-15 years or more, until the royal children there are old enough to think about marriage. It seems as Norway already have decided to "lower" the status of younger siblings of the heir to the heir, as prince Sverre Magnus is only HH and not HRH.
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  #37  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownPrincess5

I don't understand. How is it sexist because Madeleine's husband won't be styled a prince? I thought the only way a man could be styled as prince is if he's married to a queen or future queen. Isn't that how it works? This is how it is in every other royal family, I don't see why the SRF is any different.

:
Prince Lorenz of Belgium (Archduke of Austria-Este) received his title through his wife Princess Astrid, their children likewise. Although we already know that the SRF haven't chosen the option of making all the Royal children's spouses Prince/Princess from Madeleine's engagement.

The possible titles for Sofia if they get married are Princess, Duchess or nothing. All three are going to make some people unhappy. Nothing is unlikely unless Sofia herself says she wants a private life and doesn't want a title and if she does, some would say she was pressurized into refusing one and call the King hypocritical. Princess could lead to claims of sexism as Madeleine's husband will not be a Prince as well as amplify the objections to the photos. Duchess could be interpreted along the lines of 'naked model not good enough to be a Princess' as the press seem to refer to 'future Princess', 'Princess training', etc. Although they could very reasonably justify Duchess with being fair, general downsizing of the monarchy and giving Carl Philip's children more freedom in career choices.

The problem Sofia's past brings into this is that whatever the King chooses, the choice will always be overanalyzed and perhaps misinterpreted.
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  #38  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
People whine about that as well, they say the work she does is fake and only spurred because she wants to catch the Prince.
Of course they whine about that as well. Nothing Sofia will do will ever be good enough for people to stop judging her for her past. But as long as the people who actually matter have moved on I guess that is all that matters to her.
I have never heard that Marie was criticized before she married Joachim but Im not surprised. Even Kate has been accused of being a gold digger and social climber.
It seems there are a few royal brides who have a questionable past. Mette-Marit with her drug past and child and apparently there was some controversy about Mabel's past as well.
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  #39  
Old 05-03-2012, 12:09 PM
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Aftonbladet writes about that Sofia wasn't invited to the official celebration of the king's birthday. Royal expert Roger Lundgren explains again that you won't be invited to the official celebrations of the royal family, unless you are engaged to a royal. Carl Philip left the king's party and celebrated Valborg with Sofia and friends at a park, they sat at the grass. The court doesn't comment the prince's relationship, but many experts believe it will not be long before it's time for a royal engagement.
- It is simply time. Carl Philip and Sofia have been together long enough and live also together, says Lundgren.
He says there are many indications that of an engagement this year, he is not alone in his opinion.
- It may very well be any day now. Carl Philip and Sofia are so established as a couple. They have also been together for years so we will soon see an engagement. You also notice that a big part of the Swedish people have taken Sofia close to them, says Johanna Lejon, court reporter from SvenskDam.
Sofia ratad igen – på kungens födelsedag | Nyheter | Aftonbladet

Finnish MTV3 quotes Expressen:
Carl Philip has turned his back to his friends, who don't accept Sofia. He wants to show that he is fully supporting Sofia. It hasn't been easy for Sofia to get the acceptance of CP's parents, but she has succeeded in it. Because Sofia's past she wasn't accepted as CP's girlfriend in the beginning, but CP made it very clear, that Sofia has to be accepted or he wouldn't speak with them anymore. CP wants to show everyone that he is with Sofia. This was seen at Valborg, when CP was celebrating with Sofia and her friends, no friends of CP was with them. And of course part of the discrimination of Sofia is because of Emma, CP and Emma have mutual friends and social circle.
Carl Philip hylkäsi ystävänsä Sofian vuoksi - MTV3.fi - Viihde - Uutiset
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  #40  
Old 05-03-2012, 01:22 PM
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The big question is if he were first born what would happen with his choice of partner? Would he have to give up his succession rights?
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