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  #1881  
Old 11-15-2011, 11:42 AM
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Well, if that is the case IMO the best thing for Sofia would be to meet Emma to show the friends, the press and/or whomever that she isn't going anywhere.

Really...this story has no legs.

As I said, it appears that both parties have moved on. There is no big deal to meet your ex's new boyfriend/girlfriend IMO as long as there are no hard feelings (i.e. a bad breakup). Or you not dating a friend of your ex! Yeah, I am talking about you Jonas But that is the topic of another thread.
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  #1882  
Old 11-15-2011, 12:32 PM
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I always though that CP and Emma's breakup wasn't dramatic, maybe they're not close friends but can deal with this situation. Sofia clearly can't, for me she''s still insecure in this relationship, mostly because lack of acceptation from Maddie and maybe few friends of CP. But if Madeleine could stand Jonas w/girlfriend at friend's wedding it shouldn't be too hard for Sofia too. IMO of course.
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  #1883  
Old 11-15-2011, 01:07 PM
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Great said agami.pearl .I'm not a big fan of Sofia, but don't see why would such a dust around their seeing with each other
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  #1884  
Old 11-15-2011, 01:28 PM
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Agreed. I am not a fan of Sofia's but really this seems like a story made up by the press.

Since Sofia and Carl appear to be committed to each other, it appears that the Princess Remake is in the works, etc.....why would Sofia not want to meet Emma?

Its a bit far fetched IMO.
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  #1885  
Old 11-22-2011, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daisiesforever View Post
I do agree here. Give the girl a chance. She may just end up doing a good job and rise up to be a successful princess. It would be different is she was still posing nude after an official engagement. In any case, Prince Carl Philip's association with her would not be the first scandal to hit a royal house.
Why not give a nice girl a chance? Why not date and marry a nice girl with no nude photos or a tawdry past 'career' like that? What about those nice girls who stay in from getting drunk and prefer to work on making a nice home for themselves, or perhaps prefer to study hard on something difficult in school? Sofia has had her chance to live a respectable life and blew it and doesn't Carl care about how his kids might have to live with what his mother's done?

AS for the courtiers, everyone knows that the royals never listen to them anyway and treat them (courtiers) like the enemy instead of people who break their backs cleaning up their messes and scheduling their appearances. Royals are supported by the taxpayers and respresent the nation and if royals are supposedly better than 'mere' politicians, why is it that politicians are more careful about who they marry and have kdis with ? Politicians might be hypocrites, but they understand that they have ot represent the nation they seek to serve as best they can and this grooming always starts early.
  #1886  
Old 11-23-2011, 01:13 PM
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Sorry. I have a very conservative personality, but I can't see where posing nude makes Sofia BAD. We all have a past, some overcome their past. I hope Sofia is on the road to recovery. That she is possibly going to wed a prince makes no difference to me. It's not what she DID, but what she does going forward.
  #1887  
Old 11-23-2011, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
Why not give a nice girl a chance? Why not date and marry a nice girl with no nude photos or a tawdry past 'career' like that? What about those nice girls who stay in from getting drunk and prefer to work on making a nice home for themselves, or perhaps prefer to study hard on something difficult in school? Sofia has had her chance to live a respectable life and blew it and doesn't Carl care about how his kids might have to live with what his mother's done?
Sometimes I read posts and have to check my calendar to verify that we do indeed live in the 21st century.
You are basically writing off a persons entire life and their future just because of some pictures of her in the nude!! Good grief.
  #1888  
Old 11-23-2011, 01:30 PM
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We all have different opinions and different views what is appropriate and who can be a princess. In my opinion Sofia isn´t suitable for a princess. I can´t understand that anyone can enjoy to pose naked. Some things aren´t meant to be public, they are private. I must also wonder her breeding as a child and young woman. Carl Philip can marry her and be Mr. Bernadotte after that.
  #1889  
Old 11-23-2011, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
We all have different opinions and different views what is appropriate and who can be a princess. In my opinion Sofia isn´t suitable for a princess. I can´t understand that anyone can enjoy to pose naked. Some things aren´t meant to be public, they are private. I must also wonder her breeding as a child and young woman. Carl Philip can marry her and be Mr. Bernadotte after that.
Breeding?? Really?? We are talking about a human being not an entry in the Westminster Dog Show.
  #1890  
Old 11-23-2011, 01:40 PM
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I just wonder, if Carl were normal and had to make his own way in the world, would he have anything to do with Sofia? If he didn't have taxpayers paying his own way, I am more than sure that he would think twice about getting too serious with Sofia.
  #1891  
Old 11-23-2011, 01:44 PM
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Breeding?? Really?? We are talking about a human being not an entry in the Westminster Dog Show.
I think LadyFinn may have used the word breeding for what we would call upbringing perhaps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
I just wonder, if Carl were normal and had to make his own way in the world, would he have anything to do with Sofia? If he didn't have taxpayers paying his own way, I am more than sure that he would think twice about getting too serious with Sofia.
I'm confused - you're saying because he has money he's going after Sofia? But if he didn't have any money he wouldn't be going after her? Why? Surely it should be the other way around? If you're a family born to money/royalty you tend to be either led or forced to marry someone of the same stature.
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  #1892  
Old 11-23-2011, 01:49 PM
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Yes, I meant upbringing, thank you for correcting.
  #1893  
Old 11-23-2011, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta
Sorry. I have a very conservative personality, but I can't see where posing nude makes Sofia BAD. We all have a past, some overcome their past. I hope Sofia is on the road to recovery. That she is possibly going to wed a prince makes no difference to me. It's not what she DID, but what she does going forward.
I agree completely. He who is without sin and whatnot.
  #1894  
Old 11-23-2011, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta View Post
Sorry. I have a very conservative personality, but I can't see where posing nude makes Sofia BAD. We all have a past, some overcome their past. I hope Sofia is on the road to recovery. That she is possibly going to wed a prince makes no difference to me. It's not what she DID, but what she does going forward.
From my perspective its not that she has posed nude. I could care less about that although if she has done these photos one wonders what has not been published.

My issue/concern/thing with Sofia is it she appears to be one of those who seeks fame (i.e. posing nude with a snake, appearing on a realty show, posting on twitter about dating a prince). Its like she wants to be famous and part of me wonders if dating CP is just a stepping stone to fame.

I have been a member of TRF for quite some time, and there have been a lot of royals (Letizia, Mary, Charlene, Catherine, Mette Marit, etc.) that some people have questioned their motives. I have never done so one the basis that I don't know them personally and what I do know of them (based on press reports some true and some not so true) I haven't read anything that would make me question someone's (especially someone I don't know) motives. But for me personally, its not the nudity...its the nudity, the twitter, the being on a reality show (I mean people who go on a reality want to be famous or discovered if they have a particular talent). Really the reality show did it for me.

As I have stated in the past, Sofia could be a really nice person and she could love CP deeply and vice versa. I hope that is the case.
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  #1895  
Old 11-23-2011, 07:03 PM
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Missing the mark

This thread continues to be derailed by the nude pictures issue. People who don't approve of Sofia or don't believe she is appropriate princess material reference this all too often. Most of the ones who disagree respond by criticising those with whom they disagree - characterising them as old-fashioned or judgemental (which in itself is not only judgmental and in violation of the rules of this forum but also avoids dealing with the situation).

The issue is not whether or not nude pictures of Sofia exist. Nude pictures of Prince Charles and Prince Andrew of Great Britain as well as Prince Frederik of Denmark all exist. Photographs of Prince Frederik and Prince William of Wales urinating in public exist with their genitalia completely exposed. The difference is not the nudity - but rather the choice and decision-making. Sofia's choices in her past have been to promote herself through whatever means possible. Those choices resulted in several nude pictorials which range from completely nude with all areas exposed to suggestive posing with arms or snakes covering her genital areas. And she received payment for her services as a model. Her choices resulted in participation in at least two activities (the Miss Slitz pageant and the reality program "Paridise Hotel") which thus far seem to generally be regarded as tacky at best. Her choices resulted in publicly bragging about making out with a very famous porn actress. Her choices resulted in using a very public forum to boast about dating Carl-Philip, something that most agree is contrary to the usual protocol when one is friends with a royal, let alone dating one.

Carl-Philip is one who has not only lived in this protocol but he has also operated within its limits throughout his previous relationship(s), and has been part of this family in which his sisters have done the same. If he made a responsible choice, he would never have considered dating Sofia in the first place.

Sofia, on the other hand, has made many irresponsible choices in her past. Choosing to make responsible ones AFTER becoming involved with Carl-Philip (and some of those have been questionable/tainted choices as well) may be admirable. But the first responsible choice she should have made was to recognize the criticism she would bring on CP, his family, and the monarchy itself...and to then eliminate herself from the situation - or at the very least spend some time (more than a year IMO) developing this new, responsible life and then pursue a relationship with CP.

It doesn't sound very romantic, but it is reality. To recognize and acknowledge such significant choices in a person's past does not make them a bad person, nor does it make the critic mean-spirited or judgmental.

As more than one poster has pointed out - there are many politicians in the world. Some of them look for and pursue relationships with others who fit within the mold/framework/general expectation that the majority of people have for a political or public spouse. Some get it right; others get it wrong. But I don't remember any one who enters public life pursuing a relationship with a person who has made the same choices Sofia has. In addition, some political figures (as opposed to entertainers or artists - who are not usually heads or state or authorities in governing a country) make irresponsible choices. For some it results in the destruction of a family or a political career. For others, it makes them the punch line for a joke. And very few are able to bounce back. Sofia and/or CP may or may not now be experiencing those consequences, but they are the results of their own actions and choices. People who do not recognize that IMO choose not to recognize that. Good manners, good behavior, and good decision-making is not something limited to today, 10 years ago, 50 years ago, 100 years ago or longer. Questioning or pointing out behavior that reflects poorly on an individual is not only acceptable in 2011 but from the looks of things the world could use more of such observations.

It is not the majority or society's responsbility to make or accept excuses for a person's poor choices. Nor is it the majority of society's responsibility to overlook behavior in a person's past just because they may be making different choices now.

For all the Sofia-supporters who quote scripture...you're right. NONE of us is without sin. But ALL of us judge. Your posts are a perfect example. It is also not un-Christian to withhold trust/question the motives of another person who makes undignified remarks/choices/decisions.

No one is stoning Sofia or suggesting that it should be done. But the critics are merely saying she is not an appropriate choice. So instead of judging those who criticise her and accusing them of a particular attitude, perhaps you could answer this question:

What is it about Sofia that makes her an appropriate choice for a girlfriend or future wife? What is it about her that makes her an appropriate choice for a future princess if that is where this all leads? Answering that would not only avoid criticising fellow poster but would also actually address their comments and the issue at hand more directly.
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  #1896  
Old 11-23-2011, 09:06 PM
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Look, if you want to look at this in regards to CP the man, not the prince, a lot of normal men wouldn't get seriously involved with her as a result of these choices and since CP is a prince, he should be more than a little choosy. A lot of normal men see her behavior as a red flag and something to be concerned about. A lot of men would not get married. Why should a prince?
  #1897  
Old 11-23-2011, 09:39 PM
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Well we dont actually know that they are heading towards a wedding, merely that they are currently in a relationship.
People got all worked up about a certain young lady who was involved in the drug culture (for me a more serious issue than nudity or reality tv) and had a child out of wedlock and later married a crown prince and seems to be quite popular these days.
On the political side there is a Republican Senator from Massachussetts who was a centrefold in Cosmopolitan magazine but the voters of his state seem to have forgiven that and looked at his post model record and decided he was worthy to be elected to the US Senate.
Some people it seems are able to look beyond ones past.
  #1898  
Old 11-23-2011, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
People got all worked up about a certain young lady who was involved in the drug culture (for me a more serious issue than nudity or reality tv) and had a child out of wedlock and later married a crown prince and seems to be quite popular these days.
First, we are not talking about other princesses and their lives...this is about Sofia. Still waiting for answers to my questions above. Instead of comparing Sofia to others to distract from her shortcomings or attacking those who criticise her, defend her by providing examples of why she is appropriate as a potential princess. BTW, many pages back I addressed the issues with Mette-Marit vs. those with Sofia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
On the political side there is a Republican Senator from Massachussetts who was a centrefold in Cosmopolitan magazine but the voters of his state seem to have forgiven that and looked at his post model record and decided he was worthy to be elected to the US Senate.
Some people it seems are able to look beyond ones past.
Again pointing out other people's poor choices is not a defense of Sofia...it only shows other people who made poor choices. In addition, that senator was not 15 years old when he posed, his photos did not include full view of his gentalia, and because at least 51% of the voters elected him doesn't mean they agreed with that choice. It could have something to do with his opponents. Several years ago in Louisiana, a former governor who had many indictments and federal investigations was re-elected. He had previously cheated on his wife, bragged about it and was involved in many criminal activites. Many people in the state, however, voted him into office...not because they supported him, but because the other choice was a grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. The majority of citizens of Italy finally succeeded in getting Berlusconi to resign after protests complaining about his sexual shenanigans. And although he continues to do work for other people, Bill Clinton will be most remembered for the Monica Lewinsky scandal and his impeachment in the lower house.

And again I ask...what has Sofia done or what qualities does she possess that make her even an acceptable candidate for future princess?
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  #1899  
Old 11-23-2011, 11:36 PM
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I was merely pointing out that a lot of people seem to be able to get past an individuals prior actions, give them the benefit of a doubt, wish them well, and not keep hammering them for something that happened in their past. If she were to become his wife it would be fair to judge her on her actions as wife/princess from that time forward.
  #1900  
Old 11-24-2011, 04:39 AM
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Besides Sofia´s nude photos, I find the way she and her mentor are seeking publicity for Sofia now when Sofia is CP´s girlfriend extremely disturbing and unsuitable. I find it also very sad how the court and especially Ternert is babbling about her and pointing out her status as CP´s girlfriend.
Even before she was dating CP, it was easy to see of her actions and photos taken of her, that she loves fame and wants to be at publicity by any means. The royal reporter Johan T Lindwall said last week, that he or anyone doesn´t know for sure, which came first: Sofia starting at Project Playground or Sofia meeting Carl Philip for the first time. Charity work for children is close to queen Silvia´s heart, how convenient for Sofia.
If comparing Sofia´s position to any other person being a girl/boyfriend of a royal (Emma, Daniel, Jonas, Maxima, Letizia, Mathilde, Mary...) she sure has got the special treatment by the swedish court and by the press, who is praising her of her charity work, and Svensk Damtidning is already calling her "our next princess" and "Sofia is more princesslike than ever". I don´t remember that kind of remarks of Emma, Daniel and Jonas just after a years dating.
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